firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 My baptisam was set for the 23rd january. yesterday my elders came and said because the father of my children lives with me then i cannot be baptized . My muslims partner who understands fully that he must see me as a stranger when i am baptized untill our wedding understands this , but the church says no . Why ? I am making a promise to god and knowone else so what are they trying to say i am a hoe ,because i have 5 kids and a partner . 2 years ago i was ment to be baptized with my son , then i realized this was a big thing a was undergoing , i had things to stop and change things etc . Now i am ready i have been told no . The law of chastity seems to be the only problem here , i know this is not a problem to me but why to the church. my partner is the only one to be tested here and if he doesnt like it then the door is there and it would prove to me our relationship is based around sex for the last 10 years. I was not brought up in the church my parents did not belive in the higher power , i was taught that a church was a hospital for sinners and not for saints . Are my elders wrong ? many thanks carrie
WmLee Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 A very dear friend of mine was not a member and wanted to know more about the church. I asked if the missionaries could visit and she welcomed them in. She lived with her male partner, who was a quadriplegic. She accepted the gospel, he did not. He was very bitter about his accident and his physical limitations. He blamed God for his problems.She asked to be baptized but because they were not married, simply living together, she could not. Even though he physically couldn’t do things . . . chastity was not an issue, the fact that they lived together was not church standards. If you truly believe this is the Church of Jesus Christ, that He has called modern day prophets, you will accept the fact that you cannot live with a man you are not married to. Physical contact isn’t really the issue here. Prophets have instructed, so we don’t. I understand what you say and I do not want to sound unsympathetic. If he loves you and you live him, get married and be baptized. My real question here is how will half the family is Muslim and the other half live Christian?
rameumptom Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 We are to avoid the appearance of sin. The temptation for the two of you to continue living in the same house makes it important to hold off on the baptism for one of two things: one of you moves out until the wedding, or hold off on the baptism until after the wedding. Why? Because sexual purity is so important that God wants the issue handled properly before baptism. Don't be upset about the delay. It will protect you in the future. No sense baptizing you, then having you slip up immediately afterward. It has happened in the past, and so ensuring a person is fully ready for baptism is worth the wait. Read D&C 20:37 for more guidance on this.
NeuroTypical Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 I am making a promise to god and knowone elseExactly. You are making a promise to God when you get baptized. What promise? To keep his commandments.Chastity is one of the commandments. Living with a partner you're not really married to, really isn't keeping the commandment of chastity, right?
tubaloth Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 Its always hard to see things through God's eyes. Thats why we have Faith. We have to come to the point that we Trust God. That he knows what is best. Now we know why we have the Law of Chastity. You probably saying it doesn't fit for this, and you are probably right. But its more about having Faith and Trusting God, then is who is right and who is wrong!
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 [ My real question here is how will half the family is Muslim and the other half live Christian? What do you mean in a religious sence the only problem we could have which is not a problem would be food which we have delt with for the last ten years .No pork and halal meat only . Its all down to respect if you respect each other and there religon then i see no problems.
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 so its down to trust i can be baptized but the church (just to be safe) says no .Who is the church to gods intendtions for us , So really i dont have a say in it . It doesnt matter how true i am to the church and jesus christ. if the church says no ...i cannot be baptized again its my promise to heavenly father not the people in the church that i am giving . heavenly father loves all his children sons and daughter dispite what they choose. My sister is gay so that means she is not welcome in gods house .
Jenn1960 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 well i have a question. what about if you didn't live together, but because you share mutual children together, and don't live in close proxcimity, so the only way for one of the parents to see the children is to take them and travel to the other's house, and stay the night, in seperate rooms of course, how would the church feel on that one? because money and transportation play an issue, the only way would be for that parent to stay a night or two. is that allowed?
Guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 so its down to trust i can be baptized but the church (just to be safe) says no .Who is the church to gods intendtions for us , So really i dont have a say in it . It doesnt matter how true i am to the church and jesus christ. if the church says no ...i cannot be baptized again its my promise to heavenly father not the people in the church that i am giving . heavenly father loves all his children sons and daughter dispite what they choose. My sister is gay so that means she is not welcome in gods house .This is not true.Gay people are very welcome in God's house. There are several gay LDS members. But, a gay person cannot be baptized if they do not intend to follow the Law of Chastity as well - that means, no sex outside of marriage. And, since marriage in LDS is only between opposite genders, they will need to be celibate unless they find someone to marry.Your promise to God when you asked to be baptized is to follow his commandments. The Law of Chastity is one of his commandments. Not drinking coffee is another one. You can't be baptized if you don't intend to follow them.
Guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 well i have a question. what about if you didn't live together, but because you share mutual children together, and don't live in close proxcimity, so the only way for one of the parents to see the children is to take them and travel to the other's house, and stay the night, in seperate rooms of course, how would the church feel on that one? because money and transportation play an issue, the only way would be for that parent to stay a night or two. is that allowed?Yep, that will work, unless they intend to still carry on a sexual relationship then, no, that won't work.
MorningStar Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 I'm not really following your dilemma here. You are living with the father of your children. Are you planning on marrying him? Were you married to him before? Baptism is a covenant. If you aren't allowed to get baptized, it isn't to punish you but to protect you from making a covenant you might not be able to keep. I don't know if you and the father of your children broke up and continue to live together for the kids or if you are still romantically involved and just don't plan on getting married. Either way, it would be reason for you not to get baptized just yet. If you are sexually active with him, you either need to get married or move out and stop engaging in it. If you are just living together with no sexual relations, that could be highly tempting because you used to be involved sexually. I hope everything works out for you.
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 well i have a question. what about if you didn't live together, but because you share mutual children together, and don't live in close proxcimity, so the only way for one of the parents to see the children is to take them and travel to the other's house, and stay the night, in seperate rooms of course, how would the church feel on that one? because money and transportation play an issue, the only way would be for that parent to stay a night or two. is that allowed?what would be the point of that when we do that here anyway . the only thing that would cause is more bills and expense and there would be no normality of a home life for the kids at home. and are we not trying to get out of a recession.
Guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 what would be the point of that when we do that here anyway . the only thing that would cause is more bills and expense and there would be no normality of a home life for the kids at home. and are we not trying to get out of a recession.Firedance, are you trying to say that you are not in a sexual relationship with the father of your children that you're living with? I wasn't sure if I understood this correctly.
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 I'm not really following your dilemma here. You are living with the father of your children. Are you planning on marrying him? Were you married to him before? Baptism is a covenant. If you aren't allowed to get baptized, it isn't to punish you but to protect you from making a covenant you might not be able to keep. I don't know if you and the father of your children broke up and continue to live together for the kids or if you are still romantically involved and just don't plan on getting married.Either way, it would be reason for you not to get baptized just yet. If you are sexually active with him, you either need to get married or move out and stop engaging in it. If you are just living together with no sexual relations, that could be highly tempting because you used to be involved sexually.I hope everything works out for you.AGAIN....it is all down to trust . i can be baptized its MY promise its MY covenant with god and if i turned into some sex addict then it would be MY SIN ME to answer for my actions .
BenRaines Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 It is not the missionary's rule, it is the guidance given by those who have been called to lead Christ's church. If you wish to follow Christ and his Church you know what you have been told. If you choose not that is your choice too. I have spent a lifetime trying to follow God's instruction to me and mankind and follow his revelations to me and to those who have been called to lead Christ's church. Good luck, Ben Raines
pam Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 Ben you beat me. I was going to mention that it is not these missionaries that are making this rule. They are being guided by their mission President and on up the ladder. Their mission president has the authority and the discernment as well to make these decisions. They would rather (in a loving way) postpone your baptism than risk having you baptized and falling into sin after it. It's not meant as punishment, it's not meant as a judgement. It's because they want you to go into this succeeding.
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 Firedance, are you trying to say that you are not in a sexual relationship with the father of your children that you're living with? I wasn't sure if I understood this correctly.Ihave been in a sexual relationship with him hence my children ,my name is carrie not mary lol. which is past . i must take the chastity vow which i intend to keep . but this is what it is down to ....i CAN be baptized but they WILL NOT because just incase i break the vow. I will not break the vow and if anyone on here as 5 children ask yourself what do you do when you go to bed .... i am sure its the same as me ....TRY to sleep PRAY for sleep.
firedance Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Posted January 7, 2010 Ben you beat me. I was going to mention that it is not these missionaries that are making this rule. They are being guided by their mission President and on up the ladder. Their mission president has the authority and the discernment as well to make these decisions.They would rather (in a loving way) postpone your baptism than risk having you baptized and falling into sin after it. It's not meant as punishment, it's not meant as a judgement. It's because they want you to go into this succeeding.The way i see it gods teaching as just gone out of the window because the mission president knows better!!!!!
john doe Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 Sorry, we believe that a sinner must be repentant before the baptism to wash those sins away. If you feel unrepentant, which is the tone I get from your posts, then it is better for your eternal soul to not get baptised and be bound by those covenants you make at baptism. People who make covenants with the Lord and then purposely break those covenants with no remorse or attempt at repentance are much worse off than if they never made the covenants in the first place. The refusal to baptize you is for your own good.
Elgama Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 AGAIN....it is all down to trust . i can be baptized its MY promise its MY covenant with god and if i turned into some sex addict then it would be MY SIN ME to answer for my actions .I do understand how you feel, I personally see no reason why a man and woman can't live together in a house without jumping one another and rolling around.However right now its the rules, not everyone has a Muslim partner which makes what you want more popular and the rules are there for the weakest- if you can't accept that then actually that places you in a position of rebellion, of pride over patience etc that in itself will prevent you enjoying the Gift of the Holy Ghost to its fullness. Your local leaders are entitled to revelation for you they may not understand why and you may not right now, but I have found even when my local leaders have made the 'wrong' or 'bad' decision, I have been able to turn it to my advantage. Maybe there is something you have yet to learn a quality that will make you baptism better than it would be right now.It is better to baptised a bit later and 'right' then to get baptised and fall away - the Saviour was not baptised until he was 30 years old, Joseph Smith waited many years for his.I do understand the need, yearning and longing to be baptised, took me 10 years to find mine - but a short while longer won't impact your eternal progression any it may even enhance it as your yearning will be desperate. I have a question have you had a blessing about this? if not ask a priesthood holder for a blessing of comfort and direction - it will help give you peace and understanding.Could you bring your wedding forward? getting married as LDS at least in the UK can be very cheap
pam Posted January 7, 2010 Report Posted January 7, 2010 The way i see it gods teaching as just gone out of the window because the mission president knows better!!!!! Honestly I had to laugh. It's because of God's teachings that these decisions are made.
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