taking away self bought items ?

[unixknight]

As one who posted about the electricty I was not snarky. I stated a simple truth. Not only do I pay the electricty but I also am responsible for what my minor children do whether that is online, or in life.

Actually you weren't the one I was thinking of but I get what you're saying.

Consider this: my ex is struggling with my 14 year old because he doesn't listen to her and they're constantly at war. I, on the other hand, have no problems with him. It's not because I'm lax in my discipline. Far from it. I was always the "bad guy" when it came to disciplining the kids.

Here's the thing, I know my son and I know what the problem is. She doesn't listen to him. She doesn't hear him out. She stifles discussion and shuts him down whenever there's a disagreement. She's taking the "I'm the parent. End of discussion." route with him and that is NOT working.

My approach: I let him get what he wants to say off his chest. Then I lay down the law. He responds better to me because he feels like I'm at least hearing him out. It doesn't mean he has to have his way. He knows how to take "no" for an answer. he doesn't have to win the argument. He just needs to feel like his feelings matter to me, and the way I show him that they do is to listen.

That's it. Simple.

Parents who take the "No discussion. I'm your mom/dad and I said so" are sending their kids the following message: "I don't care about your thoughts or feelings in this matter." Good luck with that. That approach might work on younger kids who haven't yet learned to articulate their feelings, but it's a great way to fan the flames of rebellion in a teenager who is very independent in his thinking.

Yes, we're only hearing one side of the OP's story, but is it really so much to ask to simply listen to it? You notice, I hope, that in my earlier post I didn't come in defending the OP's actions or promoting disobedience. i said she feels violated and her trust is damaged. I stand by that. Mom and dad don't seem to be communicating well if they took the computer without her knowing they were going to. I don't care if we're only hearing one side that's a fact of the case unless we're being outright lied to.

[pam]

The parents dropped the ball here, folks. I'm not saying lizzy didn't mess up here or that there shouldn't be a penalty for not doing all the chores, but it doesn't seem to me like too many people here are listening very well. No offense.

Honestly how do you know that? How do you know the parents dropped the ball? We heard her side. She asked us for opinions based on HER side of the story. Numerous people gave that.

I'm sure if one of her parents came and told the story it would be much different. We can only answer or give opinions based on the facts at hand. In her OP she clearly stated she had no regret that she didn't do the dishes.

Edited January 20, 2010 by pam

[Elgama]

Actually Knight kind of agree with you, I have been thinking about this thread tonight as a result of an interaction with my 6 year old, had her parents listened they may have picked up the value placed on the item, not saying her parents are evil, or wrong or that she was right, but ultimately they are the adults in the situation and its upto us as parents to pay attention and act like adults towards our children. I bought a book how to Talk so Kids Will Listen, How to Listen so Kids Will Talk and I didn't realise until we skated backwards tonight lol how far forward the advice in the book had taken us, tonight we were like a bunch of kids squabbling again.

I am often impressed when we hear children of General Authorities talk, often they say they behaved because that was what was shown and expected.

[pam]

had her parents listened

But how do you know they didn't do that Elgama? I mean really know? How do you know they didn't listen and this isn't just the rant of a teenager that got in trouble for not doing something her mother asked?

[WillowTheWhisp]

It would be interesting to hear the other side of the story, or even a few answers to questions put to the daughter.

[Elgama]

But how do you know they didn't do that Elgama? I mean really know? How do you know they didn't listen and this isn't just the rant of a teenager that got in trouble for not doing something her mother asked?

I don't know if they didn't do their best to listen or I would have handled things differently to her parents or done a better job. What I do know is she feels unjustly dealt with and not listened too - therefore communication has broken down, some of that will be in her listening ability I am sure, but as many have pointed out she is the child, her parents are responsible for her not the other way round. Personally i feel the idea of removing the plug would have been better (thanks for that suggestion lol) and I think personally I would have felt uncomfortable removing it - its like my Mum reading my journals, she's not a bad parent she wanted to know something, but I felt invaded, humiliated, powerless, and bet thats how Lizzy feels about an item she worked/saved hard for - which is why she is probably digging her heels in about the dishes and now behaving like a toddler, personally I'd have done something like refused to cook/prepare meals for her until she had done her own and my dish duty turn, that way she still has some power over the situation.

My view on the thread literally changed last night, reading Knights post and listening to my husband being a good parent but the situation he was in could have been handled better, not sure i would have handled it any better, but few years back I was struck by how many of children of the prophets described how their parents did things with expectation, and a friend then gave me the How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, How to Listen so Kids Will Talk book, husband and I have been working through it, we weren't bad parents before, but now I do pay more attention to what I say and how, and realised how much we programme our children, and how careful I need to be. Last night was a back pedal lol

I do think Lizzy should deal with it with good grace but also think Knight is right, her parents listened to her with the best of their ability, but we do know she feels ignored and rejected. Like my daughter last night went to bed feeling unjustly dealt with, a bit of patience, her parent being a bit less tired, she would have gone to bed knowing her actions were wrong but that her parents love her and respect her. After all in families repsect should go both ways. However I am also British and a 15 year old here is older than American's seem to be, I don't know anyone in my area or growing up that would have wondered how to discipline a 19 year old, maybe winge and work out house rules, but wouldn't be taking away things etc, have seen American posts on the subjects - by 15 we are making decisions that affect our adult life profoundly, which subjects we study etc

Edited January 21, 2010 by Elgama

[unixknight]

Honestly how do you know that? How do you know the parents dropped the ball? We heard her side. She asked us for opinions based on HER side of the story. Numerous people gave that.

I'm sure if one of her parents came and told the story it would be much different. We can only answer or give opinions based on the facts at hand. In her OP she clearly stated she had no regret that she didn't do the dishes.

It's usually pretty easy to tell when people aren't listening to each other. I don't know how well people listened to each other on this issue, but here's what we know:

-Daughter failed to inform Mom/Dad about the study time needed, or simply used it as an excuse, we don't know. This is where the Daughter dropped the ball. That's not in dispute as far as I know.

-Mom/Dad reacted by confiscating the computer and not telling her. That's where they dropped the ball. It's possible they chewed her out for not doing the dishes, but we know for sure they took the computer from her without telling her. That's why she thought it had been stolen and only discovered after the fact where the computer was, presumably because Mom/Dad offered it back to her as an incentive to do the dishes. That's where I take issue with the parents.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I took the word 'stolen' as a typical 15 year old melodramatic way of describing events. I'm used to hearing things like that from 15 year olds as I have a 15 year old daughter with 15 year old friends, one of whom recently described being grounded as 'imprisonment'

[pam]

-Mom/Dad reacted by confiscating the computer and not telling her.

The next day I cam home from school to find my laptop- the one I paid for with my own money- stolen..or as she puts it " taken away." She hid it ( i found it that day by accident...not a very good spot) and tried to use it a a bribe. I took it back and put it in my own hiding spot.

There's no indication that the parents didn't tell her. She even states the mom said "taken away." We have no idea whether she was told when she came home or was told later. Her idea of it being stolen would stem from the fact that she purchased it with her own money. This comes back to the point that parents have the right to do this.

The fact that she found it and hid it herself is another case of disrespect to the consequences she was facing for not having obeyed her mother by doing the dishes to begin with. Again..she stated in her OP that she had no regrets about not doing the dishes.

I have taken things from my own kids and explained to them that when they are willing to do the things they are asked of and to be responsible members of the family by helping out, they can have it back. Is that bribing? Not to me. It's making them accountable for their actions. How do we know this wasn't how this played out and because the OP is upset and thinks her laptop was "stolen" she doesn't consider this a bribe?

Again we are only hearing one side of it and that's hers.

Edited January 21, 2010 by pam

[Gwen]

i thought of this thread when talking to my 6 yr old this morning. he had worked hard all last week and gotten to pick a toy from the prize box at school. it's a toy he really likes and is very proud of. i'm proud of him for earning it. this morning he would not get ready for school. he was playing with this toy instead. we were going to be late. there was no excuse for this. i told him that i was going to take the toy away and it would be mine for awhile if he didn't get ready for school. he responded "you can't take the toy away, it's mine, the school bought it and gave it to me. you aren't the boss of my toy".... lol

though i think it's great that kids learn to work for and earn things the kids to need to understand that the parents are still the boss. i also agree with those that are focused on the communication aspect of this. i would not have taken the computer while my child was out, i would have done it face to face, discussed why and how long it would be gone. they are old enough to earn the money and purchase it themselves they are old enough for the respect of a discussion about it.

even if the parents could have done better with something (not knowing their side) the bottom line is they are still the boss. a teen that is mature enough to purchase their own computer should be mature enough to do the dishes, no excuses. as a parent i would be asking the question.. if my child can't be trusted to do what i ask with something as simple as the dishes how do i know they will follow the rules for the internet? that's scary. i would want my kid to show they are responsible to follow rules when i'm not there to supervise before letting them back online. for their safety even if they don't agree with what i'm doing.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Gwen

[john doe]

I'm thinking this horse has been beaten to death. Are we ready to close this?

[unixknight]

There's no indication that the parents didn't tell her. She even states the mom said "taken away." We have no idea whether she was told when she came home or was told later. Her idea of it being stolen would stem from the fact that she purchased it with her own money. This comes back to the point that parents have the right to do this.

I never said the parents didn't have the right to take the computer. Again, what I have an issue with is that it was done when she wasn't around. I'll concede that they MAY have told her as soon as she got home, but even that doesn't change the fact that it was actually taken while she was gone.

The fact that she found it and hid it herself is another case of disrespect to the consequences she was facing for not having obeyed her mother by doing the dishes to begin with. Again..she stated in her OP that she had no regrets about not doing the dishes.

I never defended that. In fact I already expressed disapproval of the attitude.

I have taken things from my own kids and explained to them that when they are willing to do the things they are asked of and to be responsible members of the family by helping out, they can have it back. Is that bribing? Not to me. It's making them accountable for their actions. How do we know this wasn't how this played out and because the OP is upset and thinks her laptop was "stolen" she doesn't consider this a bribe?

Here's the thing, when you confiscated the items from your kids, you didn't do it when they were gone, did you?

No offense, but you seem to think I'm defending this person and her attitude, including her being upset about what she calls "bribing." As I've said already, I am not. I have an issue with the idea of the computer being taken when she wasn't around because that does a lot of damage to a child's feelings of trust and security. THAT is the point I'm making here.

Again we are only hearing one side of it and that's hers.

Well unless and until we have more to go on, it's the only information we have, and frankly I think too many people are just assuming we're dealing with a bratty kid and disregarding everything on that basis. The reliability of her side of the story seems to be more than sufficient to trigger a bunch of critical responses though, doesn't it?

though i think it's great that kids learn to work for and earn things the kids to need to understand that the parents are still the boss. i also agree with those that are focused on the communication aspect of this. i would not have taken the computer while my child was out, i would have done it face to face, discussed why and how long it would be gone. they are old enough to earn the money and purchase it themselves they are old enough for the respect of a discussion about it.

This, folks. This right here.

even if the parents could have done better with something (not knowing their side) the bottom line is they are still the boss. a teen that is mature enough to purchase their own computer should be mature enough to do the dishes, no excuses. as a parent i would be asking the question.. if my child can't be trusted to do what i ask with something as simple as the dishes how do i know they will follow the rules for the internet? that's scary. i would want my kid to show they are responsible to follow rules when i'm not there to supervise before letting them back online. for their safety even if they don't agree with what i'm doing.

Good point.

Edited January 21, 2010 by unixknight
adding comments

[lydlou]

okay i read the first 2 pages and the last one. heres my take as a mom: consequences need to be disscused BEFOREHAND. the original post say mom "asked " her to do the dishes, if the daughter is in the habit of ignoring requests then the mother is no doubt aware, and therfor overreacted to a single incedent based on a patern of behavior. parents need to lay dow the law BEFORE a child (or teen) has the oppertunity to mess up, so that the child is aware of the consequences of missbehaving.

[WillowTheWhisp]

We don't actually know whether they did or not. For all we know the daughter may not have been doing her chores on a regular basis and the mother may have said that if she didn't pull her weight then she would lose some privileges - one being the use of her laptop for a while.

I remember years ago having bought my daughters a doll each. My friend who was with us bought her daughter one too. On the way home they kept waving the dolls around in the car and being very distracting. I asked them to stop and told them it was dangerous to distract someone driving a car.They didn't stop. I told them again and said if they did not stop I would take the dolls from them. They did not stop. I took the dolls. My friend took her daughter's doll but later gave it back. I was mean. I didn't give them back.