Godly Sorrow

[lost87]

I know that i've posted many threads about my situation...for most things I know the answer and it just comes down to either doing what it takes, or not (usually not :/ ). But no matter what I do it seems like I can't ever feel that "godly sorrow" that is said to be so key to repentance. I feel the guilt/anger, but its more of a destructive, hate-myself sort of feeling. Or, there is the flip side where I convince myself that it wasn't all that bad...everyone is doing it sort of thing....the two polar opposites seem to battle back and forth.

Reading church literature/discussion/scripture about what I've done just makes my blood boil and I sink to a whole new low on the self-worth scale (sorry for any comment I may have made at one of those times). I can tell myself that I feel sorry for what I've done, but its not sincere...and acting the part does me no good (obviously). Praying, studying, going to church...none of those things are helping, I just end up resenting the church, the doctrine, myself, and the whole repentance process....I know that is the complete wrong response, and I shouldn't have those feelings, but when I am really honest with myself, that is what is there. So how do you really come to understand the gravity of, and have godly sorrow for sin?

thank you very much for any insight/advice/thoughts you may share.

[bytor2112]

Lost,....often the God like sorrow comes later. Long after you have stopped doing the sin. Remember that the church doesn't forgive you of your sins, only the Lord can do that. While your Bishop may tell you that your repentance is complete and that you are worthy to receive the blessings associated with church membership, the actual healing process may take longer. As time passes and you understand...through the Holy Spirit, you will have that broken hearted, God like sorrow that is essential to the healing process provided by the Savior's Atonement.

Right now, you need to find the strength and courage to be obedient and put some time and distance between you and your problem. We are made perfect...perfected over time...a lifetime by Christ's Atonement.

Final suggestion. Read The Continuous Atonement by Brad Wilcox.

[Tarnished]

I have struggled with sexual sin most of my life. When it first started I felt very bad about it but over time you become desensitized and it bothers you less and less. I went to my bishop and repented after the first time, but then I messed up again and had to go back. Before I got married I had repented many times and had begun to think that the only way for me to be safe from my sexual sins was to get married. Getting married was difficult in itself as my fiancé and myself had to control ourselves before it could be done. Eventually with much repenting and lots of work we were able to get married. I thought I was good now, that I had nothing to worry about, but then things in my marriage got bad, and I ended up committing adultery.

As people who have addictions have said, you have to hit rock bottom. For me my adultery was my rock bottom on my sexual sins, I realized that I could lose everything. Everything I cared about, my husband, my dogs, my house, my good name, my eternal salvation. I knew the risk was there when I began getting involved with the other man, but when it came down to it I ended up slipping up instead of doing what I should have. It was the thought of losing everything that got me moving. I realized that I needed to change in a big way. I sat down with myself and began to ask the questions of what I really wanted.

I determined that I wanted to repent, I wanted to feel clean again, I wanted to get myself to a place where I felt good about myself again, and didn’t feel filthy anymore. I decided that I needed to let my husband know, and whether I lost everything or not I was going to change. He decided to stay with me, and I went to the bishop, he asked me to read “The Miracle of Forgiveness” put me on Informal Probation, and told me to come see him on a regular basis.

I began to read “The Miracle of Forgiveness” which I will say is a difficult book, it does not tiptoe around our sins, it brings out the consequences of them, and does not make them less than they are. But I was ready for that, I wanted to know what my sins would get me and what my options were to get rid of them. I loved the book. And it was that book that helped me to reach Godly Sorrow. I realized that if I did not let go of my sins that I would never be allowed to be with God, to feel the spirit, to be with my family, I realized how much I would lose if I did not let go of them, and I felt Godly Sorrow for it. It was a deeper sorrow than what I have ever felt before. And it helped me reach repentance. Though I am coming up on having my informal probation removed I still feel like I have a long way to go still. My relationship with the Holy Ghost was weakened and so was my testimony, I still need to work on those things.

I almost feel like I am rambling here, and am beginning to second guess myself on sharing these things. But what I am trying to get at here is that reaching that point of Godly Sorrow is something you can do, it just takes work, and it takes really getting into your head and figuring out why you did what you did. What it is costing you? What you are willing to go through to get back to where you need to be? Once your answer to that last question reaches the answer of “Whatever is necessary.” Then you are on the right path to forgiveness. It does not mean that you are there yet, but that you are on the path. To get to forgiveness you have to work at it, you have to spend long periods praying, begging for forgiveness. You have to get to the point where you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that things between you and God are good again. Until you know that you need to work on repentance like your survival depended on it, because your eternal survival does.

I am not writing this to discourage you, I am writing this to let you know that forgiveness is attainable, but you have to work at it.

[bytor2112]

Hey Tarnished? Did you read Faith Precedes the Miracle...first? Also By President Kimball. I really like the Continuous Atonement also.

[lost87]

thank you for your responses.....I have read the miracle of forgiveness, and honestly it just makes me mad. I know that is the wrong emotion to feel....but I can't help it. I don't know what about it gets to me, but I just get so irritated and then full blown angry....maybe i'm so far away from the spirit that when it tries to work on me I hate it even more...i don't know but its hard to say "what will I lose" because im wondering if those things that I stand to lose (i.e. the spirit, exhaltation, eternal life, etc.) are even real...and if they aren't then why bother?

It seems to me like repentence is this circle that you just keep going around in life....it takes guilt/sorrow which leads you to use the atonement, which takes faith in christ and a testimony that the atonement is real...which leads to forgiveness....except for if you've been sinning so much, you don't have a testimony, and you don't even know if Christ is real anymore, and its hard to have guilt/sorrow when its just these men who may or may not be called by a God who may or may not exist telling you that what you are doing is terrible....its like repentance is a circle, but if your in need of repenting there is no way to get inside the circle and actually make progress...you can pretend and go through the motions, but you get no where.

[beefche]

Lost, do you remember when you felt the Spirit? Do you remember when testimony burned within you?

I believe that sometimes we just have to choose to believe and choose to act as if we believe. John 7:16-17

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

To me, that means that sometimes we "fake it until we make it." There are some things I just don't understand, but I choose to live the law. Faith comes into play here...I choose to believe that something good will happen to me because I'm living the law. I'm just as satisfied living the law as I am not living it.

Now, that is more difficult to do when we actually enjoy our sins. There is pleasure in doing wrong....if there wasn't, then no one would do wrong. So, we have to choose to go without that pleasure and believe that something better is waiting for us. As we continue to study and pray, the time will come that we will know of the doctrine and that it comes from God.

I like what bytor has said. Sometimes that actual godly sorrow comes later. Emotions are emotions. You can feel them and still choose to live a certain way.

[Tarnished]

I like what Beefche said here, when I had my affair it was not just out of the blue. I worked my way into it. About a year or so before my affair I had begun to question my belief in the church, or rather my relationship with Christ. I felt like I really didn’t have a relationship with him. I couldn’t write off the church entirely because there were instances in my life where I had the Spirit testify to me of certain things, and I knew them to be true. However, I did find myself falling away in other ways.

I stopped attending church and I let myself get farther and farther away from it. When the temptation of another man came around there was less resolve in me to turn away from something I should not have been doing than there would have been if I was still going to church. For me it really took the affair itself, the actual act to shock me out of this path. I didn’t like who I had become. I didn’t like where my choices were taking me.

Since coming back to church it hasn’t been easy. There have been days where I have doubted what I was doing. But I also knew that going to church and trying to get myself back to where I know I should be is the best way to get myself to a place where I can respect myself again. So even if I don’t feel like going, I still go, even if I don’t feel like reading my scriptures or have doubts about what I am reading, I still read. Like Beefche said, I am basically faking it till I make it. And it is getting easier, I have received forgiveness, and going to church has become much better.

It sounds like that is something you may want to work on before or maybe even while you work on repentance. Work on your testimony, work on your belief, read the scriptures, say your prayers, attend church. Do the small things that help people grow their testimony. Heck you could even try asking the missionaries if they would be willing to teach you the missionary discussions. Start again with the basics. Gain a testimony again, or at least figure out what you really believe about this church, because like you said, until you really realize what you have to lose, repentance really isn’t going to really work for you.

@ bytor: No I did not and have not read those books, but they sound like something I wouldn’t mind reading.

[JudoMinja]

thank you for your responses.....I have read the miracle of forgiveness, and honestly it just makes me mad. I know that is the wrong emotion to feel....but I can't help it. I don't know what about it gets to me, but I just get so irritated and then full blown angry....maybe i'm so far away from the spirit that when it tries to work on me I hate it even more...i don't know but its hard to say "what will I lose" because im wondering if those things that I stand to lose (i.e. the spirit, exhaltation, eternal life, etc.) are even real...and if they aren't then why bother?

It seems to me like repentence is this circle that you just keep going around in life....it takes guilt/sorrow which leads you to use the atonement, which takes faith in christ and a testimony that the atonement is real...which leads to forgiveness....except for if you've been sinning so much, you don't have a testimony, and you don't even know if Christ is real anymore, and its hard to have guilt/sorrow when its just these men who may or may not be called by a God who may or may not exist telling you that what you are doing is terrible....its like repentance is a circle, but if your in need of repenting there is no way to get inside the circle and actually make progress...you can pretend and go through the motions, but you get no where.

I had a hard time with this too. For a couple years, I didn't even want to take the step onto the path of repentance because I knew my heart wasn't in it. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I wasn't committed enough to fully give it up. I had my doubts, but I also knew that the misery I felt was Godly sorrow and my testimony never fully dissipated. I wouldn't pray, because I refused to make an insincere repentance.

Someone else had to give me the push to confess to my bishop, but even then I didn't really feel ready. It wasn't until I started diligently studying the scriptures that I started to make progress. I did a topical study on sin, repentance, atonement, wickedness, and perfection. I took notes, looking for specific scriptures that meant something to me. I read The Miracle of Forgiveness and Putting on the Armor of God. I took the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet and re-wrote my own standards specific to me, being harsher and more strict and specific in the areas I knew I needed to work on.

At this point, I still wasn't praying. I wasn't doing this because I was ready to be in the good graces of God. I was doing it because I knew how miserable I felt in my sins, and I remembered how wonderful I felt before I'd committed them. I was tired of that misery, and I wanted to better myself. I knew that the gospel and the standards were good, because I remembered the person I was when I was living them. I knew I couldn't become that person again, but I at least wanted to do what I knew to be right.

It wasn't until I devoted myself to doing whatever it took to rid my body of its weaknesses and conquer my addictions that I finally felt ready to ask the Lord's forgiveness.

The fact that you recognize there is a need to repent and that you want to do something about your lack of feeling Godly sorrow is wonderful. You are already on the path to repentance. The rest will come with time. For some people, this happens quickly. For others, it takes years. Just keep at it and don't fret over what you don't have yet.

[ferretrunner]

Lost,

Where is your anger coming from? I wonder if there is something under the anger that is making it more difficult for you to feel repentance? Or to feel forgiven? Perhaps there's a key here.

[Faded]

(King James Version)

[9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

(2 Cor. 7:9-10)

(New International Version)

9. yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

10. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Here's the passage people are usually talking about when they mention "Godly Sorrow." The whole difference is very simple. Worldly sorrow leads to self-destructive, self-loathing or otherwise bad feelings. Godly sorrow means you realize that you've done wrong and your absolutely determined to change.

Few things are this black and white, but in this case, the source of each is clear. Worldly, self-deprecating, self-destructive, self-loathing sorrow comes directly from Satan. He wants you to hate yourself. He wants you to just give up and stop trying. He you to feel hopeless, angry, stupid, pathetic, unforgivable, etc.

Godly sorrow comes from God, obviously. God wants you to realize how infinitely wonderful and good you can become through repenting and cleansing yourself. He sees how miserable we are when we sin and he seeks to lift us out of our addictions and weaknesses. He seeks to heal us and make us happy again. But he will not force us to choose to be happy. That is up to us.

Godly sorrow means that even though you might slip and fall, you refuse to give up. In my own struggles against vices, I've found myself at that same fork in the road many times. I can either wallow in self-loathing, anger, and all manner of negative emotions. Or I can stand back up, dust myself off and choose to be better, and just believe Christ when he's telling me that he will take away my sins. You'd think I'd have learned by now, but I find myself going one way some days and the other way other days. Worldly sorrow makes me miserable and pessimistic. Godly sorrow makes me happy and optimistic. You'd think I'd learn not to make myself miserable.

I think it's invaluable to know where the feelings come from though.

[need4peace]

Hi

I hope you don't mind me adding my experience with Godly Sorrow'

It was an absolutely painful process but at the same time it was a real release deep within my heart - I remember at one stage I was kneeling and praying up the paddock whilst leaning against a large rock, just sobbing my heart out. I was crying to my Father in Heaven apologizing for my sin, sharing my feelings of how I had hurt another child of His and how I felt such sorrow knowing I had ultimately hurt Him - my Father in Heaven.

I later felt a burden lift from me and it felt like I could almost float. I could then forgive myself, forget it and move on with a clean slate. I learnt so much through it all and am glad I experienced what the scriptures term Godly sorrow:)

I pray you will find the following quotes from our leaders on the topic of Godly Sorrow, both helpful and comforting. All the best and please be gentle with yourself.:)

President Gordon B. Hinckley has said that repentance is “more than a word. It is an act that means sorrow, godly sorrow, and remorse and restitution and resolution. It involves pleading prayers for forgiveness, and promises, sincere and honest, to do better” (Ensign, Sept. 1994, p. 76).

A Mighty Change of Heart Ezra Taft Benson “godly sorrow” for our sins.

"It is not uncommon to find men and women in the world who feel remorse for the things they do wrong. Sometimes this is because their actions cause them or loved ones great sorrow and misery. Sometimes their sorrow is caused because they are caught and punished for their actions. Such worldly feelings do not constitute “godly sorrow.”

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Cor. 7:9–10.)

.... godly sorrow is defined as a sorrow that leads us to repentance.

Godly sorrow is a gift of the Spirit. It is a deep realization that our actions have offended our Father and our God. It is the sharp and keen awareness that our behavior caused the Savior, He who knew no sin, even the greatest of all, to endure agony and suffering. Our sins caused Him to bleed at every pore. This very real mental and spiritual anguish is what the scriptures refer to as having “a broken heart and a contrite spirit.” Such a spirit is the absolute prerequisite for true repentance."

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Mighty Change of Heart

Forgiving Oneself

D. Chad Richardson

Worldly sorrow is promoted by Satan. It is the sorrow of being caught, of not being able to continue sinning, or of turning against oneself with self-loathing or disdain.

Godly sorrow, on the other hand, is sorrow given as a gift from God to those who are willing to receive it. Godly sorrow leads us to a full recognition of the magnitude of our sins but with the knowledge that we can become free of them. It leads us to fully recognize the wrongs we have committed without giving in to the temptation to see ourselves as worthless or beyond God’s love.

There is no room in godly sorrow for self-contempt. Those who refuse to forgive themselves thus bear a double burden of sin, for not only do they carry the sin itself, but they also add to it the sin of self-condemnation and refusing to forgive. Indeed, refusal to forgive is cited in the scriptures as “the greater sin” (D&C 64:9).

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Forgiving Oneself

M. Russell Ballard, “A Chance to Start Over: Church Disciplinary Councils and the Restoration of Blessings”

Today, as well as in days of old, there is hope, there is peace, there is rest in Christ for all whose Godly sorrow brings them to that repentance which worketh salvation. Elder Marion G. Romney

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Chance to Start Over: Church Disciplinary Councils and the Restoration of Blessings

[Maya]

You know the song I absolutely love that song. I made a video on you tube with that song... the text is elder Busches talk... but transklated in to Finnish... I think it turned out pretty good.

Thanks for sharing need 4 peace. These quotations were really good!

[Drake7723]

Sometimes when after I have repented and promised not to commit the same sin but i end up recommitting the same sin and I cannot help it and afterwords I pray for Forgiveness and repent again but the same problem happens

[Anddenex]

Within the gospel of Jesus Christ, and pertaining to repentance and godly sorrow, I am always reminded of Nephi's words (2 Nephi 4: 17 - 20):

"My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.

"And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted." (emphasis added).

1. We should be mad, upset, when we have transgressed laws by which we know are wrong. This is in connection to Nephi's words, "O wretched man that I am."

2. Like Nephi, we should then transition our hearts to remember in whom we trust. In whom we love. In whom died that we might live. Jesus Christ.

3. In my experience, a persistence of anger, verses allowing the atonement in our lives is a direct result of a mind which knows they are doing wrong, but is unwilling to change. This is one of the ideas presented in connection to "wailing and gnashing of teeth." An unrepentant sinner verse a penitent sinner.

In essence, it is a mind and heart condemning itself, in contrast to a mind and heart which dwells on the words of Christ who said (John 3: 17):

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Or as Nephi declared, "Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted." And we all know Nephi trusted.

4. I don't agree with the idea that people must hit rock bottom before they change. This may be true for some, but not for all. Hitting rock bottom is the idea of a person who must be compelled to be humble verses the individual who chooses to be humble. As President Benson declared in his talk on pride. We can either compel ourselves to be humble, or wait until the Lord compels us.

[Misshalfway]

After reading some of these responses and after really thinking about it, I'm not sure I really know what godly sorrow is completely. I think I have a sense of it. I think it means that you are able to distinguish between the behavior and the worth of the person. I think it means that you recognize a proper sense of guilt and a motivation to make things right again. But more than that I think it has to do with love.

What I know about Satan is that he deals in lies and shame and hate. I think he uses our goodness against us in this way tempting us to attribute our mistakes to our horribleness as a being. He damages our self regard and gets us to judge ourselves harshly in punitive and unrelenting ways. And we do this because we believe it will help us atone or something. All of it is a perfect way to separate people from the ways of God and God himself. And I believe this tarbaby is the way he chains people to their sins.

The only way to stop this viciousness is through learning the lessons of love. What if we loved ourselves through our mistakes? What if we loved ourselves in the way Jesus loves us?

I guess I believe that Godly sorrow is Father's way of teaching us how to treat ourselves when we sin. It teaches us to take responsibility without losing the love we deserve at all times. I think it's Father's way of teaching us to be more like Him. And my experience is that when I am practicing loving myself through each excruciating moment of my shame, I feel better and stronger and like I growing in grace.

[Drpepper]

I don't agree with the idea that people must hit rock bottom before they change. This may be true for some, but not all.

I agree with the statement above. I remember as a missionary feeling real godly sorrow and that was a time in my life when I was really keeping all the commandments as best as I could.

I found that the closer I was drawing to God the more I realized how imperfect I was and how I needed to change.

Godly sorrow for me was recognizing where God is and where I am and then doing my best to bridge the Gap. Of course we can't do that alone.

The anger feelings is part of the natural man, it's completely normal. That's why King Benjamin invits us to put off the natural man and yield to the enticings of the holy spirit.

That's why your given the holy ghost to help you overcome these things and lead you back to Christ

[Sharky]

Misshalfway has some valid points.

What is "Godly Sorrow"?

In my own experience, in my life, I find that I tend to be much harsher on myself then I think God will ever be. He forgives. I hold things against myself for what seems to be forever. I struggle to forgive myself for even the little things.

It is very difficult & hard to make a change, to experience sorrow of any kind especially "Godly sorrow" when I can not or have not accepted myself as I am & have not forgiven myself.

Change can only begin when you have truely accepted things as they are, accepted you as you are. You can not change something that you do not sincerely & completely acknowledge with the truest desire to change.

I think you will find that "Godly sorrow" is a very personal thing that no one else can define what it represents or is for you.

I think that "Godly sorrow" can easily be overshadowed by your own hate or disgust, the lack of acceptance, of your own self.

As you work towards accepting & forgiving yourself, you will discover what "Godly Sorrow" is for you.

I can't tell you how to accept & forgive yourself. That is something that is very individual, something that differs for each of us.