Believing Christ

[Justice]

Believing In Christ and Believing Christ.

I want to borrow this comment made by JudoMinja in a different thread.

I've been studying the book of Hebrews lately. I think chapter 3 and 4 teach this principle very well.

I once heard that the key to understanding the New Testament is knowing what question is being answered. The epistles, or letters, sent to the different churches were meant to interpret doctrine that was misunderstood, or to settle controversies that particular branch of the church had. So, it stands to reason that if you can find the purpose for the letter, or the "question being answered," then understanding the New Testament would be easier.

As I studied the New Testament and pondered on what question each teaching might be addressing, it was amazing how much clearer the New Testament became. Take Hebrews for instance:

Hebrews 3:

1 WHEREFORE, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, aconsider the bApostle and cHigh Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Modern revelation throws such a brighter light on what Paul may have been saying, and to whom. This sounds to me like he is addressing a Priesthood body. "Holy brethren" and "partakers of the heavenly calling" seem to be addressing those men who had been called to the priesthood. But, it is also clear that the times were very different, and women were not given the same treatment they are today. It could have been addressed to brethren, knowing they were the priesthood leaders, yet meant for all members.

2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Moses was faithful in his house, which we understand as the Aaronic Priesthood. Jesus Christ was faithful in His house, indeed, He built the house. We know the Melchezidek Priesthood as the Prisethood after the order of the Son of God, or the higher priesthood. To LDS, it is clear Paul is referencing his audience as priesthood holders.

The next part is a quote from the Old Testament referring to Moses and the children of Israel, giving evidence to the fact that Paul was addressing the priesthood. Notice the quote is in parenthesis, which, as you know, can be removed from a sentence to find the intended meaning. So, let's remove the quote in parenthesis, and see what happens.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, aproved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Wherefore, take heed brethren...

It is interesting that Paul was speaking to Priesthood holders, or those of the covenant, and he warns them to take heed. It is true that God is faithful and will honor all who honor Him. But, where do we see "once saved always saved" doctrine here? We don't. Paul is warning the covenant people to take heed lest they fall into sin.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

I have studied this verse a great deal. I think it's message was lost in translation. I think it is saying:

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold our confidence in Christ stedfast from the beginning unto the end;

I don't know how one can hold a beginning confidence stedfast. With faith in Christ, one's confidence grows.

Then, Paul uses the quote from the Old Testament to teach people how he has taken ownership of the words, and how they apply to them as well as to them of old.

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Again, the children of Israel were people of the covenant. They did not enter the promised land, not because God was not faithful, but because they were not.

They believed IN God, but did not believe God.

Chapter 5 finishes this thought nicely:

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

He is telling them that just like the children of Israel, if they are not faithful to their covenants then they, too, will fall short of God's rest.

And, what is God's rest? We'll get into that in a minute, but let's finish the thought first.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Interesting that the New Testament says the Gospel was preached to the children of Israel, yet most Christians don't believe that it was. It says it did not profit them, and is (I believe) why Moses broke the first set of tablets. The Gospel was preached, but they did not exercise faith in it, so it was taken from them, and as a result, they were not allowed to enter into the promised lane, or "rest of the Lord."

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

This is a scripture many Christians use to justify their belief in "once saved always saved." They think it's saying all work is done in Christ, and man can no longer work works of Salvation.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Now we know that God didn't "rest" after created the heaven and earth. But, the seventh day He rested from "His works." Watch closely:

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Clearly, Paul is teaching a Gospel of works and laboring, but not after our own will and wants for ourselves, but after God's will and wants for us. When we put God and His Kingdom first, we rest from our labors or works, and find rest in His. Worldly labors do not bring rest. They need to be done and redone, and if they are foremost on our minds we will NOT find rest. But, seeking the Kingdom of God and His will, we will find rest from the cares and sorrows of the world.

Believe Christ, just don't believe IN Him. To me, that means we work and labor for Christ. It's a choice we make. We are not driven to, but we are enticed to by the Spirit. We have our agency to do which ever we choose.

How Christians can walk away from Hebrews thinking they are being told works are not required for their salvation is beyond me. Clearly, these words say the works of the law of Moses are not required, but the works of the law of Christ (called faith) are most certainly required.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Justice

[billy2]

Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

Suppose someone anonymously sent me a check for $1,000,000. The money is mine if I want it, but I still must endorse the check. In no way can signing my name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. I can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or my own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing my name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!

Edited February 9, 2010 by billy2

[Justice]

So, back to the question, what does it mean to believe Christ? Can you say you believe in your heart, yet do nothing?

Are you saying we do not have agency?

Are you saying God is 100% responsible for man's salvation, and at the same time acknowledge some men will be cast into outer darkness? If God is 100% responsible for salvation, then why did He not save all men? What separates those who gain eternal life and those who are cast into outer darkness? Did God just decide who to "save?"

I have heard your arguments or viewpoints or interpretations 1,000 times. But, they leave me empty.

If you define "believe Christ" you must concede that it requires good works to claim it.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

James 1:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of bliberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 2:

13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

What you misunderstand is that faith requires action on your part. To say you believe in Christ requires you to act or work, or you are a liar. When the scriptures say "believe in Christ," following Him, or keeping His commandments, is implied. You cannot be His disciple is you do not follow Him, or attempt to put His teachings into practice.

1 John 2:

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Some want to say they can be saved and not do anything. Many man do nothing and aren't saved. Why can a man who claims to believe in Christ, yet do nothing, claim to be greater than a man who does not claim to believe in Christ and does nothing? To me, the man who claims to believe in Christ and does nothing is worse. The New Testament says that the devils believe Jesus is the Christ, yet they are not saved.

Highlights of James 2:

James 2: 14, 17-18, 20-22, 24-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

• • •

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

• • •

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

• • •

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

John 14:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Often in the New Testament the Bible refers to the Law of Moses as the law of works, or just works. This is what confuses most Christians. We are not saved by the law of Moses, or the works of the Law of Moses, but we are saved by the law of Christ, or the works of the Law of Christ.

Galatians 2:

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Clearly, this is saying man is not justified by the works of the law of Moses, but by the works of the law of Christ. This is the only way to understand both Galatians and James. They must agree.

Matthew 5:

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Works done for the right reason, for the glory of God, justify a man.

Matthew 16:

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 23:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

The parable of the sheep and goats is perfectly clear. If you say you believe in Christ, but do not feed the hungry, visit the sick, and help the afflicted, then you will be on His left hand, not right. In fact, read the whole chapter, all 3 parables teach the same story, and all 3 hinge on the works we do.

Now, don't put words in my mouth and claim I'm saying our works can earn us salvation without Christ. They cannot. It is only by Christ that our works are made meaningful. This is His grace; it empowers us to be more than we can be without Him:

John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Edited February 9, 2010 by Justice

[bytor2112]

Billy is a troll...he posted some anti stuff on the Do I need a feeling thread.

[Justice]

It's OK. :) He has to get around to all the scriptures eventually.

I didn't really mean to post about works, but I can't separate "beliving Christ" from working for His purpose.

[JudoMinja]

Works and faith go hand-in-hand in the same way that justice and mercy go hand-in-hand. Upon first glance, they seem contradictory, but given closer inspection, we see that we cannot have one without the other. Our world is a world of polar opposites, and we need those opposites. 2 Nephi 11 goes into detail on these opposites. Paraphrased-

If there were no law, there could be no sin. If there were no sin, there could be no righteousness. If there were no righteousness, there could be no happiness, nor misery without happiness. If these are not, there is no right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong, there is no God. If there is no God, there is no creation, and all things are for naught.

We need these opposites in our lives. Without them there would be no agency. How can we make a choice, if we are not presented with something to choose from?

If these opposites are so important, and God saw fit to give us agency so we could choose, why? Why must we have the ability to choose? Because God wants us to make the choice for ourselves, of our own free will, to be righteous. His plan was not to force righteousness upon us but to have us CHOOSE righteousness. What would be the point in choosing righteousness if we are saved no matter what we do?

In contrast, God is a just God and his laws are perfect. We, as human beings drawn by the desires of the flesh, are imperfect. It is impossible for us to be perfectly righteous. We will make mistakes. We will screw up. We will sin. If there were only justice, we would all be damned. Because of this, we cannot be saved solely by our works. We can work and work and work until our faces turn blue. We can strive harder and harder and do more and more to better ourselves and build up the kingdom, but it will never be enough. This does not mean the work is not required. We are still expected to work. We are still expected to do our best. We are still expected to keep pushing forward and endure to the end.

This is where grace comes in. Grace is indeed a gift. No matter what we do, we can not do enough to PAY for grace. We can not PAY for our own salvation or suffer for our own sins. It is impossible. We need the grace of God if we want to be saved. Jesus Christ suffered for us. He paid for our sins and offered the ultimate sacrifice. Without this, all our works would be for naught. He is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Everything. He makes up for all our lack, all our inadequacies, all our imperfections.

But still we cannot slack! Both works AND faith are required. We cannot have one without the other. Just as there is both justice AND mercy.

We must both believe in Christ and believe Him. I equate believing in Christ to believing in His divine mission and mercy for us, that he has given us this gift of grace, and I equate believing Him to a study and understanding of His teachings and APPLYING THEM TO OUR LIVES.

While Christ offers the Atonement unto all, only those who accept it will receive it. How do we accept it? By following him. By taking upon ourselves His name. By becoming His desciples. By applying His teachings to our lives and living them. We may not be able to PAY our way into heaven, but I believe we can EARN it. This is done by giving it our all, by doing our best, by striving always to learn more truth and live more in tune with His teachings. When we do so, THEN the gift of grace makes up for our lack.

Thank you Justice. I will enjoy this thread.

[Justice]

If anyone reads JudoMinja's comments, and other comments like them found throughout this forum and on the net, and they are truly seeing the TRUTH, it seems impossible that they can't "see it."

My only conclusion is that they aren't really looking for truth.

A person must be willing to give up all that they accept as truth in order for the turth to be revealed.

Isaiah said, speaking of our day, that the wisdon of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. Wisdom can only perish when one disocers that what they thought was true really isn't. If people desire to hold on to what they know, and refuse to seriously ask and seek, the truth remains hidden.

How? I don't know. How can something shinning as bright as the sun remain as dark as mid night to someone staring right at it? There's no doubt sin has something to do with it, or pride in one's self and beliefs at the very least. Darkness and light are interesting contrasts in the scriptures. Jesus calls light good works several times. The opposite would have to be true also.

I'm just thankful that I see it.

[Just_A_Guy]

Now we know that God didn't "rest" after created the heaven and earth. But, the seventh day He rested from "His works." Watch closely:

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Clearly, Paul is teaching a Gospel of works and laboring, but not after our own will and wants for ourselves, but after God's will and wants for us. When we put God and His Kingdom first, we rest from our labors or works, and find rest in His. Worldly labors do not bring rest. They need to be done and redone, and if they are foremost on our minds we will NOT find rest. But, seeking the Kingdom of God and His will, we will find rest from the cares and sorrows of the world.

On a semi-topical note, from CS Lewis:

[To have Faith in Christ] means, of course, trying to do all that He says. There would be no sense in saying you trusted a person if you would not take his advice. Thus if you have really handed yourself over to Him, it must follow that you are trying to obey Him. But trying in a new way, a less worried way. Not doing these things in order to be saved, but because He has begun to save you already. Not hoping to get to Heaven as a reward for your actions, but inevitably wanting to act in a certain way because a first faint gleam of Heaven is already inside you.

[JudoMinja]

There are many anecdotal stories that show work and dedication are a necessary part of faith.

One is the man caught in a flood. The news warned there would be a flood, but he did nothing, trusting God would save him. A neighbor drove by, asking if he wanted a ride, but he stayed, trusting God would save him. When his house was flooded, a boat came by, asking if he wanted help, but he stayed, trusting that God would save him. When he was stuck on his roof, a helicopter came, asking if he wanted aboard, but he stayed, trusting that God would save him. When he walked through the pearly gates and met God he asked "Why didn't you save me?" God replied- "I warned you through the news. Compelled your neighbor to give you a ride. Sent a boat and a helicopter. All of these you ignored. You would still be alive, if you had done something."

Another- two farmers are struggling in a drought. Both pray for rain, but only one goes out to prepare his fields. Which one had faith that the rain would come? The one who did the work.

And lastly- A man needed to hire a coach driver to deliver his goods. He interviewed several men, looking for a good driver. He asked them- "You will be driving along a mountain pass. How close can you get to the edge?" The first replied he could get within a couple feet and still be safe. The second said he could do better than that, he could drive right along the edge, even letting the wheel go over slightly and still be safe. The third replied- "I'll stay as far away from the edge as possible". It was the third who was hired. He was willing to do whatever it took to be safe instead of pushing the boundaries.

All these examples, and many others, are evidence of faith, believing IN Christ, and believing Him. As Justice and Just_A_Guy have stated, if we truly have faith and trust in the Lord, we will do as he has asked us to do.

[Blackmarch]

It's OK. :) He has to get around to all the scriptures eventually.

I didn't really mean to post about works, but I can't separate "beliving Christ" from working for His purpose.

[$.02]

personally I don't think belief is much of an action beyond a mental process...

It's goign from having belief to having faith where all the action comes in.

Which is why I don't think that belief in christ alone will save... but you do have to start with it.

[/$.02]

[Justice]

That's the bottom line. It's taught so clearly in the New Teatament, it really does baffle me why it's not obvious to all Christians. If we do not do what Christ says (or try and repent when we fall short--or maintain an effort) then we cannot claim to be a follower of Christ without being a hypocrite.

So, if we believe Him, we'll do what He says. How can you claim to believe Him and not do what He says?

[Hemidakota]

"Believing In Christ and Believing Christ."

That is find quote but walking with Christ is much better.