What Does Santa Clause Have To Do With Christmas?

[prisonchaplain]

This sounds like some fundamentalist, hard-nosed question. Yet, it won't go away. I heard this talk over 30 years ago, and just had another conversation about it today. Do Christian parents do a disservice to their children by indulging in the Santa myths? On the other hand, is it possible that Santa Claus can lead people to the true Jesus?

[lisajo]

My Parents always taught us that Santa was a symbol of the three wise men,Giving gifts on the night Christ was born,

When our kids were very small we tried to keep the figure of santa out of our decorations...Kinda seperated him... We did the same thing with the easter bunny and did our bunny stuff on the sat. before easter,

I know that some will tell you Santa comes from Staint Nick I guess a Catholic saint,

But we always taught our kids that he was a symbol of giving like my parents did, our kids have never been spoiled by Over loading them with gifts and i wants from santa, we had 2 familys every year that we bought for, (the same ones every year) they were familys that we knew well and adopted them, those 2 familys now are doing well on there own and of course the kids have grown, so we do different things for others now,

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I can see that from a Christian point of view, Santa Clause might be considered a problem. Although he does teach us about charity (giving gifts), I see your point about what can happen when I child finds out that Santa is a myth. When this happens, it might very well be natural for them to question the existence of Jesus.

That is what happened to me. I was raised Christian, but very liberally...rarely went to church...but I was taught about Jesus...the basics...and believed them.

When I discovered that Santa was a myth, I think that did factor into my skeptism about Jesus. I remember being around 10 years old and realizing that I doubted the existence of the Christian God. That faith never returned.

But don't you think that, despite the threat to your child's faith, that Santa Clause can be used to test their free-thinking? Is it better for a child to be indoctrinated from birth to never question his or her faith?

I think that is dangerous, because if a child never experiences the loss of a belief (like Santa Clause)...they might not ever learn to think critically about other beliefs they hold.

As a Christian, you might not like the idea that they might learn to question the Bible, Jesus, God, etc...

But do you REALLY want your child to grow up without a healthy sense of skepticism? They need to learn that not everything they learn about is true. Then they can make their own decision regarding faith in Christ.

What if they are introduced to a dangerous cult? Lack of skepticism could make them think "Well, if Jesus is real despite lack of evidence, maybe this new teaching is also true, despite its lack of evidence." And then they join the cult.

So it is not as clear as you make it sound.

From a non-Christian point of view, I will vote that Santa Clause is a good thing. This is because I do not believe in a divine Jesus, so I do not consider the discovery of the Santa myth to be a threat to my child's faith. In fact, I hope that the Santa myth will give her the healthy skepticism that I mentioned above. And furthermore, I hope that it will teach her charity. Myths are meant to teach us truths...in the case of Santa Clause, it is all about charity.

[Maureen]

I always felt excited about Christmas because Santa was such a mystery and fun. And as you get older you learn and get to pass the mystery onto your children to see the fun for them. Whether Santa is a part of Christmas or not, that would never take away the message of Christ in Christmas, for me anyway. And there's that lovely children's book that unite the two: Santa's Favorite Story by Hisako Aoki.

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Taoist Saint says: That is what happened to me. I was raised Christian, but very liberally...rarely went to church...but I was taught about Jesus...the basics...and believed them. When I discovered that Santa was a myth, I think that did factor into my skeptism about Jesus. I remember being around 10 years old and realizing that I doubted the existence of the Christian God. That faith never returned. But don't you think that, despite the threat to your child's faith, that Santa Clause can be used to test their free-thinking? Is it better for a child to be indoctrinated from birth to never question his or her faith? I think that is dangerous, because if a child never experiences the loss of a belief (like Santa Clause)...they might not ever learn to think critically about other beliefs they hold. As a Christian, you might not like the idea that they might learn to question the Bible, Jesus, God, etc. ... But do you REALLY want your child to grow up without a healthy sense of skepticism? They need to learn that not everything they learn about is true. Then they can make their own decision regarding faith in Christ.

My concern is that my children, along with learning that Santa Claus is a myth, also learn that Mommy and Daddy will lie to them, for fun, and to preserve tradition. It's not so much that I don't want my children to question the existance of God or Jesus. At some point the faith has to become theirs. Usually, taking ownership of faith requires spiritual wrestling. What I DO NOT want to happen, is for my children to learn not to trust me to be truthful with them--especially about spiritual matters. So, I'm not worried about popping the Santa bubble, but my being perceived as deceptive by my own children.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Dec 9 2005, 05:30 PM

My concern is that my children, along with learning that Santa Claus is a myth, also learn that Mommy and Daddy will lie to them, for fun, and to preserve tradition.  It's not so much that I don't want my children to question the existance of God or Jesus.  At some point the faith has to become theirs.  Usually, taking ownership of faith requires spiritual wrestling.  What I DO NOT want to happen, is for my children to learn not to trust me to be truthful with them--especially about spiritual matters.  So, I'm not worried about popping the Santa bubble, but my being perceived as deceptive by my own children.

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Actually this is also a concern that I have.

However...my parents "lied" to me about Santa, until I finally asked them....and it did not cause me to distrust them. I understood that they were doing this to make my life more fun.

Also, with my child, I would gradually reveal the truth about Santa (through hints) after she reaches a certain age...maybe five...until she figures it out herself or I tell her.

And lastly, I think every child is different. I will carefully evaluate my child's process of thinking. Some kids are more sensitive than others, and might feel "betrayed" if their parents "lie" about Santa. Others will shrug it off, like I did. If I think my child is sensitive, and quick to lose trust in others, I would NOT teach them about Santa, beyond telling it as a fictional story.

So I guess there is no right or wrong answer...it might just depend on the child's personality.

[Jason]

You have your myth's backwards.

Santa Claus (ie Saint Nicholas) was a real person, though now very dead.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

Jesus (ie the Saviour) may not have been a real person, which makes him the myth.

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm

[prisonchaplain]

Jason says: You have your myth's backwards. Santa Claus (ie Saint Nicholas) was a real person, though now very dead.

Count on Jason for the clever twists. I think we're all adults here, and we know that there was a historical Saint Nicholas. It surely was not too much for me to expect you to realize that by "the myth of Santa Claus" I was referring to the character who can magically fly with his reindeer to every child's home on earth in one evening.

P.S. Your issue may have been valid...but, please, start your own string

[prisonchaplain]

I voted yes, though I won't literally dump him. My daughters will probably hear about him, see him, and may even watch a movie about him. However, it won't be mommy and daddy filling her head with promises of presents for girls who no how to be nice, and not naughty. And, when they are old enough to ask, we'll explain him as a funny folk tale people tell so children can have fun.

Santa Claus is, at minimum, a diversion. But, sometimes neglect is more successful than opposition.

[Morgan17]

Isnt christmas santa's birthday?

[sgallan]

I might make your argument here Prison Chaplin. My kid is hanging on tightly to Santa. But as soon as she lets go, she'll get my rationale for being a non-believer in more detail.... probably in a comparative religion format as part of her schooling (home schooled). Her belief in god is similar to the one in Santa at the moment.... sort of a diest view.

[pushka]

I voted to keep Santa, I used to believe in him and really listen out for his reindeer bells on Christmas Eve...however it was always separate from the Christmas Story for me, being raised Catholic I suppose we naturally separated the two. I can't recall being distressed to find out that Santa was just a myth, we were proud to be grown up enough to realise it was made up!! LOL. It never affected my belief in Jesus at the time.

I think it would be sad to do away with Santa, as if we did away with him then surely the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny would have to go too? Now that's just being miserable in my book!

[Laureltree]

Hi guys...My family is from holland and these are the stories we were told growing up. I think it is very positive and teaches people to give selflessly....

Santa Claus:

Where Did That Guy in the Red Suit Come From?

The origin of Santa Claus depends on which country's story you choose to adopt. Santa Claus comes from the Dutch words "Sinter Klaas", which is what they call their favorite saint, St. Nicholas. He is said to have died on December 6, A.D. 342. December 6th is celebrated as his feast day, and in many countries this is the day he arrives with his presents and punishments.

Nicholas lived in what is now called Turkey. He was born about A.D. 280 in the town of Patras. His parents were wealthy and he was well educated. Nicholas seems to have had a remarkable childhood. While still a young boy he was made Bishop of Myra, and because of this he has been known ever since as the Boy Bishop. He was renowned for his extreme kindness and generosity – often going out at night and taking presents to the needy. Santa's rise to fame can be traced to two legends – the three daughters and the children at the Inn.

The Three Daughters

The first story shows his generosity. There were three unmarried girls living in Patras who came from a respectable family, but they could not get married because their father had lost all his money and had no dowries for the girls. The only thing the father thought he could do was to sell them when they reached the age to marry. Hearing of the imminent fate, Nicholas secretly delivered a bag of gold to the eldest daughter, who was at the right age for marriage but had despaired of ever finding a suitor. Her family was thrilled at her good fortune and she went on to become happily married. When the next daughter came of age, Nicholas also delivered gold to her.

According to the story handed down, Nicholas threw the bag through the window and it landed in the daughter's stocking, which she had hung by the fire to dry. Another version claims that Nicholas dropped the bag of gold down the chimney.

By the time the youngest daughter was old enough for marriage, the father was determined to discover his daughters' benefactor. He, quite naturally, thought that she might be given a bag of gold too, so he decided to keep watch all night. Nicholas, true to form, arrived and was seized, and his identity and generosity were made known to all. As similar stories of the bishop's generosity spread, anyone who received an unexpected gift thanked St. Nicholas.

St. Nicholas and Children

Another one of the many stories told about St. Nicholas explains why he was made a patron saint of children. On a journey to Nicaea, he stopped on the way for the night at an inn. During the night he dreamt that a terrible crime had been committed in

the building. His dream was quite horrifying. In it three young sons of a wealthy Asian, on their way to study in Athens, had been murdered and robbed by the innkeeper. The next morning he confronted the innkeeper and forced him to confess. Apparently the innkeeper had previously murdered other guests and salted them down for pork or had dismembered their bodies and pickled them in casks of brine. The three boys were still in their casks, and Nicholas made the sign of the cross over them and they were restored to life.

[ldsgurl_2002]

Another one of the many stories told about St. Nicholas explains why he was made a patron saint of children. On a journey to Nicaea, he stopped on the way for the night at an inn. During the night he dreamt that a terrible crime had been committed in

the building. His dream was quite horrifying. In it three young sons of a wealthy Asian, on their way to study in Athens, had been murdered and robbed by the innkeeper. The next morning he confronted the innkeeper and forced him to confess. Apparently the innkeeper had previously murdered other guests and salted them down for pork or had dismembered their bodies and pickled them in casks of brine. The three boys were still in their casks, and Nicholas made the sign of the cross over them and they were restored to life.

thats terrible!!!

[Maureen]

Originally posted by ldsgurl_2002@Dec 10 2005, 12:44 PM

Another one of the many stories told about St. Nicholas explains why he was made a patron saint of children. On a journey to Nicaea, he stopped on the way for the night at an inn. During the night he dreamt that a terrible crime had been committed in the building. His dream was quite horrifying. In it three young sons of a wealthy Asian, on their way to study in Athens, had been murdered and robbed by the innkeeper. The next morning he confronted the innkeeper and forced him to confess. Apparently the innkeeper had previously murdered other guests and salted them down for pork or had dismembered their bodies and pickled them in casks of brine. The three boys were still in their casks, and Nicholas made the sign of the cross over them and they were restored to life.

thats terrible!!!

You think being restored to life is terrible?

M.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Dec 9 2005, 05:30 PM

My concern is that my children, along with learning that Santa Claus is a myth, also learn that Mommy and Daddy will lie to them, for fun, and to preserve tradition.  It's not so much that I don't want my children to question the existance of God or Jesus.  At some point the faith has to become theirs.  Usually, taking ownership of faith requires spiritual wrestling.  What I DO NOT want to happen, is for my children to learn not to trust me to be truthful with them--especially about spiritual matters.  So, I'm not worried about popping the Santa bubble, but my being perceived as deceptive by my own children.

I don't think you're giving kids too much credit for being reasonable people. It's fun to believe in the magic of it all and at some point children get older and figure things out and it's not that tragic. I never thought that my parents lied to me. Santa is a Christmas tradition. The story lets children's imaginations bloom. When you realize you're parents went to the trouble of making everything so exciting and fun you realize you're parents cared about those things that make it fun to be a kid, which makes you want to pass it on to your children. I accepted the grown-up version of Santa and my kids are now older and they have accepted him also, with no trauma or hurt feelings that we as parents provided them with some excitement in their younger years.

M.

[shanstress70]

I don't think a belief in Santa is harmful, even as a Christian. EVERYTHING doesn't have to be about religion. Can't this just be a bonus that is fun for kids? Christmas is a magical time for kids because of Santa, and as long as kids are taught that the day is for celebrating Jesus' birth, what does it hurt? I can't imagine not believing in Santa when I was a child. There is plenty of time for NOT believing in magic... let them enjoy this for the few years that they can!

I believed in Santa as a child, and when my older brother clued me in, I was a bit disappointed. However, I didn't get all mad and hate my parents for it; quite the opposite, actually. I think I'd be bitter now if my parents hadn't let me have a bit of that magic growing up.

All that being said, I do stress to my child that it isn't all about receiving. Almost every day during this Christmas season, I bring up the reason why we're celebrating - "2 more weeks till Jesus' birthday..." Also, participating in things like Toys for Tots and explaining to him why we're doing it, making sure he sees me put money in the red kettle, or letting him do it, etc.

Lighten up... have fun! I think Jesus enjoyed seeing the look on my 3 year old's face last night as we watched Polar Express!

[Edgar]

firstly let me say that i forgot that i joined this forum,.

The last time i checked is'nt Santa just a bit of magic for kids. so guys and gals lighten up alittle and a very merry christmas to all ho ho ho

[Palerider]

I told my kids about Santa Claus and I do not feel I was lying...in case you don't know I am ......SANTA CLAUS....whats wrong with having an imagination....this is whats wrong with the world today....everyone wants to find fault...Santa Claus is not hurting anything or anyone...there are alot of other things in life to be more concerned with...I looked forward to telling my Grandkids about Santa Claus....

[sgallan]

I told my kids about Santa Claus and I do not feel I was lying...in case you don't know I am ......SANTA CLAUS....

Me too. And the dangest thing..... I am beginning to look more like the popularized version of Santa Claus with each passing year.

[prisonchaplain]

Edgar says: firstly let me say that i forgot that i joined this forum,. The last time i checked is'nt Santa just a bit of magic for kids. so guys and gals lighten up alittle and a very merry christmas to all ho ho ho

Kudos to the new guy! He changed my mind. Well, actually you've all convinced me that this is probably the least important post I've ever started. I'm still not gung ho on Santa Claus. However, here's the clincher: THE TOOTH FAIRY IS COMING TO OUR HOUSE TONIGHT Your many valiant defenses of the abundant man in the red suit have led me to do what Gov. Terminator will not--I'm declaring clemency for good ole S.C.

[shanstress70]

Yey! That makes me very happy for your kid(s).

[Edgar]

well prisonchaplain, As long as you dont start one on the Easter Bunny things will be fine

[sgallan]

Edgar says: firstly let me say that i forgot that i joined this forum,. The last time i checked is'nt Santa just a bit of magic for kids. so guys and gals lighten up alittle and a very merry christmas to all ho ho ho

Indeed. Let the magic of childhood be just that.... magical and innocent. Kids shouldn't have to be adults. Steal their magic, and steal their imagination, and you have stolen their childhood.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Edgar@Dec 12 2005, 07:25 PM

firstly let me say that i forgot that i joined this forum,.

The last time  i checked is'nt Santa just a bit of magic for kids. so guys and gals lighten up alittle  and a very merry christmas to all  ho ho ho

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