sgallan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 For those of you who think it is all so cut and dry. One of my best students is a murderer. Been in prison for 25 plus years. Helped start the education thing there. Raises thousands of dollars selling pizza's to other prisoners for scholarships. Oh.... and you know what landed his butt in prison? He killed (or had killed) a guy who forcably raped his daughter and got off. Oh yeah, he was also a war hero in Vietnam flying huey's. Sethus.... what would you have done in this guys situation? Think he deserves to go into your little program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 My "little program" is only for the convicted. Mine is not a place to judge. If the jury found him guilty of murder then that was their call. Also, "Vengence is mine, saith the Lord" So, while I do understand his desire to want to avenge the SOB who did that to his daughter (wouldnt we all) ....does it make it right? I am aware that this world isnt black and white cut and dry.... My "little program" is just a theory that I am fully aware would not work. The ugly truth is no matter what the crime prevention dicipline we employ there will always be crime....because criminals will always think they can get away with it. After all to them in their minds the punishment is null and void if they dont get caught. And again about where I've been and what I've done. You still dont know squat. I dont post the things that would get me put up on charges for violation of the UCMJ or breech of security. So, your "pass" is about as good as an Iraqi Dinar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 You still get one.... get over it.... or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Thanks! I will conced as cointention is of the devil and I do try hard to honor THE COVENANTS I have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sugarbay Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by Setheus@Dec 11 2005, 12:09 PMThanks! I will conced as cointention is of the devil and Ido try hard to honor THE COVENANTS I have made.←Let Us Oft Speak Kind Words To Each Other. Then Hymn p. 308 Love One Another. Gloves on, dudes. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureltree Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by Outshined@Dec 10 2005, 06:32 PMI believe life without parole is a suitable punishment, if it is devoid of pleasures like cable television and movies, etc.It should be a barren and solitary existence, for reflecting on the damage they did to another person.←thank you outshined...I agree but most are not...most get all kinds of privledges..And yes.I know what the inside of a prison looks like.....SgallonI simply think we need tighter punishments, if they were so brutal people would be scared to committ those crimes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureltree Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 sgallon That is a little different than a person going in and killing a family, and you know it .........However like I said in my above post it would be all on how they had changed..allot go in there and come out te same...Others come out totally changed and I commend them for there hardwork.....But there are those who need stricter laws enforced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureltree Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 more information :http://www.savetookie.org/bio.htmlhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1536001/postsA picture of tookie himselfhttp://www.iiandii.com/tookie.htmlTookies Life:http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_327681tookie:http://www.thuglifearmy.com/news/?id=2174I think yoou should add the crime scene photo links so we can get all te information...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 if they were so brutal people would be scared to committ those crimes..... Oh sure..... it's worked so well that we already incarcerate more of our populus than any other developed nation in the world. About 2 million. And yet we are still the most brutal developed nation in the world. Not just the people in prison either. But the nation that puts them there, and just wants to throw away the key, or kill them, are every bit of the problem. So if this guy gets death, and riots occur, and more people get killed or hurt (and if there are riots you know there will be), plus the damage and so on...... as far as I am concerned we got what we as a brutal society deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureltree Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Some more links:http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-11170...-home-headlinesHis homepage:www.tookie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Lauraltree, seeing that you are one of the moderators here goes:http://www.capitalideasblog.com/Not nearly as graphic as some of the stuff at Mike Savage's site, but don't open if you have a weak stomach.background information:http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I actually kind of hope they do put him down.... and society pays the price of the riots that follow. A brutal society gets what it deserves. More death and brutality. I am cool with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie G Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Did any of you read lesion 23 today. Judge Not people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontagreeljefe Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Judge not unrigteously but judge righteous judgement. Dallin H Oaks gave a talk on that. For safety he should be locked up. Scriptures support capital punishment. For the sake of society;s safety I would believe in it. State has duty to make judgements as does church. We need to make righteous intermediate judgements and it is righteous to belief the fit punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Alma chapter 1 -- what is the view of capital punishment in regards to the Book of Mormon prophets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Scriptures support capital punishment.It has been my experience that scriptures and their interpetations have been known to support a lot of things over the centuries. From really good things, to horrific things. It seems that much anything you want to do can be supported by a scripture somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontagreeljefe Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 D and c 42:19 thou shalt not kill but he that killeth shall die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 D and c 42:19 thou shalt not kill but he that killeth shall die. So those people in war..... who kill innocents.... should die too, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Like wow, man, I like killed a bug the other day...does that count? Sgallan, for I don't know, the last few thousand years, Jewish and Christian scholars have always interpreted the scriptures (in reference to killing) to be dealing with taking innocent blood. Soldiers in war are not accountable as they are fighting opponents who would kill them otherwise. Non-combatants sometimes get killed -- but in Christian societies one would expect that innocents would not be targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Sgallan, for I don't know, the last few thousand years, Jewish and Christian scholars have always interpreted the scriptures (in reference to killing) to be dealing with taking innocent blood. Soldiers in war are not accountable as they are fighting opponents who would kill them otherwise. Non-combatants sometimes get killed -- but in Christian societies one would expect that innocents would not be targeted. Big deal.... they still die. If you send a missle into a populated area... like a city you know dang well they are going to get killed. And they are innocent. Now I happen to be cool with this. War bites. I happen to think this particular person rehabilitated himself to at least spend the rest of his life in jail. But if they kill him, and riots and other deaths happens..... we get what we deserve. And I am also pro-choice. I don't have to make these rationalizations where taking of the an innocent life is okay in this instance, but not in another instance. But don't suggest to me you somehow have a higher moral ground with the end results of innocents. So cry me a river about abortion and then kill innocents in a war situation. To me that is just hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontagreeljefe Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 If legislatures and judges decided cases on wether riots would break out or not would be a sure mob rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 We will soon see whether they riot of not, cause Tookie is all but dead now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Look at it this way....if someone MUST be accountable for innocent victims of war perhaps the blame should be on the LEADERS of the war and not the grunts in the ranks....after all dont you know that when a fighter pilot fires a missle or drops a bomb most of the time he has no idea what the target it....he just flys a pre-determond flight path and at programed times the missles fire themself and head to a pre-programmed destination. The pilot is just as in the dark about the target as those of us waiting to see it on CNN Sometimes however its just an accident....and accidents dont keep you out of heaven I dont think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Setheus - Good points. I'll word it differently when I bring up this kind of example from now on. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by Outshined@Dec 10 2005, 06:32 PMI believe life without parole is a suitable punishment, if it is devoid of pleasures like cable television and movies, etc.It should be a barren and solitary existence, for reflecting on the damage they did to another person.←I agree. Being in prison for life without parole is worse than death, from what I have heard about our prison system. It is basically a sentence to be attacked and raped by other inmates, while the guards look the other way. This may go on for years. When it ends, the psychological damage it does to you will be a living hell for the remaining decades of your life. One might consider that to be justice...if the purpose of prison is for a criminal to suffer...Being sentenced to death would give the prisoner freedom from suffering in prison for life. That is ok with me, because it keeps us safe from the prisoner, and releases the prisoner from his suffering...everyone wins. It might sound like I am in favor of the Death Penaly, but I am not. I think that a murderer should be given the personal choice of Voluntary Death or Life in Prison Without Parole. Both punishments protect the public and punish the offender. Ironically, those of you that believe a murderer should be given the worst possible punishment seem to be in favor of the Death Penalty, when in fact the Death Penalty is the more merciful punishment.It is a quick easy ride out of prison, whether it be an eternal sleep or to an afterlife.And if you are LDS, remember that your Church teaches that this person will be going to a BETTER PLACE after his death, even if it is only the Telestial kingdom...which is a place more glorious than we can imagine. I doubt Tookie will go to Outer Darkness, as it is unlikely he sinned against the Holy Ghost.So you might want to think that over...I personally do not believe that making the criminal suffer does any good after so much suffering has already occurred...which is why I think they should be given a choice of their own fate. Sorry if that sounds too "liberal", but we Buddhists believe in unconditional compassion...I think Jesus did too...As for tax dollars spent to support a prisoner...does it really add up to much when compared to the billions of dollars spent on war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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