Baptism by Fire

[kalagasa]

To receive the Holy Ghost, but why do scriptures refer to it as Baptism by Fire. Is it symbolic more than anything? A question that's been in my head for a few days.

If there has already been a thread on it I apologize in advance. Just point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

[marts1]

The earth itself is following a celestial law by being baptized by water (the flood) and them it will be cleansed by fire (second comeing). Could be a reference to that, fire being another cleansing process.

[Guest mysticmorini]

i don't think it means literal fire in either the baptism by fire or the cleansing of the earth in the second coming. i have a feeling that fire was the best word the ancients could use to describe what actually happens.

[Moksha]

Just a thought, but around 4.5 billion years from now when our sun is a red giant, the Earth will literally be engulfed in flame.

[Justice]

Oh man. I love this topic. I don't know if I have any answers for you, but I'll refer you to the scriptures where the answer may be found.

3 Nephi 17:

24 And as they looked to behold they cast their eyes towards heaven, and they saw the heavens open, and they saw angels descending out of heaven as it were in the midst of fire; and they came down and encircled those little ones about, and they were encircled about with fire; and the angels did minister unto them.

Read all of 17 because it leads into 18 and 19. Read, study, and ponder these 3 chapters and look for the parts where they were filled with fire.

Notice in 19 Jesus separated Himself from them 3 times to pray for them. The 2nd time He returned to them they were "filled with desire," and the 3rd time He returned to them they were "filled with fire." I believe there is a parallel.

Very awesome reading. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts about these chapters (and anyone else's) as they pertain to being filled with fire.

[Justice]

Oh, and I have a saying...

We have a choice. We can either be "hewn down and cast into the fire" or "filled with fire..." but either way we're getting burned.

My point being that it's better to choose to be filled with fire (repentance and so forth) than it is to have the choice made for us where we are thrown into the fire.

[Guest mysticmorini]

great stuff, thats pretty much what i had in mind.

[marts1]

It seems to me it might be a different kind of fire when the wicked will be burned, when Christ returns to cleanse the earth of all wickedness.

[Just_A_Guy]

Oh man. I love this topic. I don't know if I have any answers for you, but I'll refer you to the scriptures where the answer may be found.

See also (perhaps as a counterpoint), 3 Nephi 9:20:

And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not.

[marts1]

I suspect at that time most will be somehow swept away, as in no longer here.

[Traveler]

To receive the Holy Ghost, but why do scriptures refer to it as Baptism by Fire. Is it symbolic more than anything? A question that's been in my head for a few days.

If there has already been a thread on it I apologize in advance. Just point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

There are interesting symbolic references that are applied to scripture reference of fire encountered by mankind’s journey along the way or path returning to “The Tree of Life” or exaltation in the “Kingdom of G-d”. In Genesis the cherubim utilize a “flaming sword” to keep the way. Note that in this scripture the notion concerns “Keeping” the way and not guarding the way as many try to interpret this particular concept. Again in the Book of Revelation, John uses the symbols of fire (associated with looking or seeing by Christ) and a sword.

There are two basic notions for the symbolic reference to fire in the scriptures. Both are closely related. Fire is the means to purify. This was understood in the ancient concepts associated with refining of metals. A sword exposed to refining fire has been cleansed of impurities and made stronger. Thus the first purpose of fire is to expunge impurities. Someone that has been baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost has been redeemed and purified of sin. In the Book of Mormon this is also referred to as “A Mighty Change of Heart” and a desire to do evil no more. Associated with this symbolism of purification are several doctrinal concepts – one being “salvation”. The idea of salvation comes from the act of salvage. When one salvages a ship wreck, for example, only those items of value or worth are extracted or saved. This is an important understanding because sin has no divine or eternal value to G-d and cannot be salvaged by G-d. Therefore that which is “redeemed” by G-d must first be separated from and cleansed from all sin and all desire to sin. The scripture notion of “remnant” is also referring to that which has been separated from the dross and impure. So a remnant is that which remains following the means of purification.

The second notion in symbolic reference to fire concerns destruction of the wicked. The ancient concept of burning reduced the dross to ash. The ancient symbolism of ash is quite interesting. Unlike “dust”, “ash” has some use but is often considered that which has resulted from total and complete rune, which is the name of perdition. In this the scriptures create fire as a means to destroy or punish the wicked. But this is not to purify as is done with the remnant. It is a means to subject or get some final use. Thus the wicked are punished or destroyed. It is interesting that fire is therefore used for two things. First is to separate that which is of value to be purified and second is to subdue the dross.

The Traveler

[Mahonri]

Unless we are born of the water and of the Spirit we cannot enter into heaven.

Baptism is being born of the water.

RECEIVING the Holy Ghost and having it cleanse you from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet, sanctifying you from sin is the baptism of the spirit or "fire and the Holy Ghost".

In the Book of Mormon we read that some of the lamanites had been baptized by fire and "they knew it not".

Most often, when we have come to Our Heavenly Father with a truly broken heart and an extremely contrite spirit, giving away all of our sins, THEN we can be cleansed from top to bottom and be sanctified by fire and the Holy Ghost.

Unfortunately, there are too few members of the Church that have experienced what I have just written about.

... and it can happen, over and over again, as we worthily partake of the sacrament each Sunday, renewing our sacred covenants with Him.

There are also too many who have had this wonderful baptism of fire that don't keep the Spirit of the Lord in their lives.

Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and FEW there be that find it.

[Moksha]

"If ye remember that scissors cuts paper, rock smashs scissors and paper covers rock - that is all ye need to know..."

- Book of Zelph, The Later Years 3:15

Water douses fire but fire boils water.

[HiJolly]

A couple of responders have touched upon the answer. Read this: Baptism of Fire—Lorenzo Snow

It happens. I don't know how or why, but I am a witness that it happens.

HiJolly

[marts1]

There are countless ways the Spirit administers to people. The scriptures speak of many and there are many more.

[Justice]

There are interesting symbolic references that are applied to scripture reference of fire encountered by mankind’s journey along the way or path returning to “The Tree of Life” or exaltation in the “Kingdom of G-d”. In Genesis the cherubim utilize a “flaming sword” to keep the way. Note that in this scripture the notion concerns “Keeping” the way and not guarding the way as many try to interpret this particular concept. Again in the Book of Revelation, John uses the symbols of fire (associated with looking or seeing by Christ) and a sword.

Very, very good.

In fact, if you really study it, the flaming sword was not put in the Garden until after Adam and Eve left. Many feel it was placed there to "guard" them from partaking the tree. This presupposes that God would remove their agency.

I happen to believe Adam and Eve made a second choice after they partook of the forbidden fruit, to NOT partake of the tree of life at that point.

Alma 12 and 42 teach that Satan's plan was for them to partake of the tree of life immediately after partaking of the forbidden fruit. It tells how this would have destroyed the agency of man (by eliminating mortality).

Very good post, Traveler. Makes me wanna dive in and study right now!

Edit: also, I'd like to note the parallel of "sword" to "word (see Alma 43-44).

Edited March 21, 2010 by Justice