Higher Laws?

[InquisitiveSoul]

There is a line drawn called the Temple Recommend Interview. From what I understand, this is the standard for how you are judged. I've looked up the questions and they seem fairly basic. However, having been exposed to the Church and different members for much of my life, I've also heard about "implied" rules which you aren't specfically asked about in interviews.

For example, Rated R Movies. For many years I operated on the assumption that if I was to go to a movie with a Mormon friend, it would be to a non Rated R movie. Also, if I was inviting my Mormon friend over to the house I should have some Sprite or some Juice on hand because they wouldn't be having any Pepsi.

Which leads me to my question: as you begin to find more success living on the right side of the line and hold a Temple Recommend, do you then move forward making an effort to live a "Higher Law" such as a life without Pepsi, Rated R Movies, and then wear Holy Underwear? Is this Higher Law (sorry I don't know whatelse to call it) discussed or implied in any way?

Edited March 16, 2010 by InquisitiveSoul

[NeuroTypical]

Good questions Inquisitive.

R-rated movies is the cultural rule of thumb that I personally find an abomination. The real line in the sand is what sorts of entertainment we seek, and what sorts we avoid. We should avoid forms of entertainment that are not uplifting, such as violence for the sake of entertainment, or pornography in any form. I consider R-Rated Schindler's List required viewing for my kids, once they are a bit older. At the same time, I find most PG-13 movies to be disgusting and a waste of time - not uplifting at all (with a few exceptions).

"No Caffiene" is a similar culturally-invented abomination. Here's how it showed up:

Scripture: The Word of wisdom specifies No Hot Drinks.

Clarifying revelation: The hot drinks of the time were tea and coffee - that's what the scripture is referring to.

Clarifying church leader counsel: We should avoid any addictive substance that isn't prescribed as a medication by a doctor.

Mormon Fanboy Cultural Non-scriptural Non-doctrinal Horse-hockey: It's the caffiene in coffee and tea that the word of wisdom is actually talking about. After all, it's addictive! Therefore, no pepsi.

Reality - Caffiene is mildly addictive to a segment of the population. Many mormons avoid caffiene for that reason. Others don't. You can hold a temple recommend and drink pepsi. (My temple rec is sitting in my wallet right now, and I'm on my 3rd diet pepsi of the day.)

In the temple, we do take on additional covenants. "Higher law" is a fine term for it. There are various ways of finding out what they are, by taking a temple prep class, or reading "The Holy Temple". We mormons tend to be pretty closemouthed about specifics, because we're instructed to keep certain things in the temple close to our hearts and not discuss them outside the temple. Many of us have a hard time remembering which parts to hold sacred and which parts to discuss, so we err on the side of caution and just don't talk much about it at all.

Hope this helps!

LM

(love the avatar - B&B is a guilty pleasure of mine. Hardly uplifting, but still funny as heck)

[InquisitiveSoul]

Thanks LM! I always enjoyed Beavis and Butthead too. The Great Cornholio always cracked me up.

One can make a case it is better to stay away from soft drinks in general as they can be a form of addiction, same with candy or any other treats with sugar.

As for Pornography and more crude Rated R Movies, I'd suggest these fall under the question about being Morally Clean.

There are so many areas one can look at for a higher law or a way to improve their lives. All of these areas are good places to start.

Sometimes, especially lately, I feel like the person in the parable who takes his one talent and buried it away. I feel like I have been lazy in so many areas and really need to dig in and find a way to contribute and make a difference. Perhaps the way to do this is to join and be active in the church.

[rameumptom]

The baptismal and temple recommend interviews give us the minimum standard for entrance into the Church and temple.

Each member is to be a prophet to him/herself. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, members will often add personal commandments of righteous living to themselves, which can include avoiding caffeine and R rated movies, among many other things. The idea is God gives us through the Prophets a basic set of commandments. We are then to seek God's personal inspiration on how to specifically live these and any additional commandments he may wish for us to obey.

While some avoid R rated movies, some are even inspired to avoid some/all PG-13, due to its content. They find that anything that offends the Spirit causes them to live without it. They are willing to give up many/all things in order to increase their relationship of God and the Holy Ghost.

And yes, you should prepare yourself to be baptized. Perfection not required, only basic worthiness and faith.

Edited March 16, 2010 by rameumptom

[Gwen]

"No Caffiene" is a similar culturally-invented abomination. Here's how it showed up:

Scripture: The Word of wisdom specifies No Hot Drinks.

Clarifying revelation: The hot drinks of the time were tea and coffee - that's what the scripture is referring to.

Clarifying church leader counsel: We should avoid any addictive substance that isn't prescribed as a medication by a doctor.

Mormon Fanboy Cultural Non-scriptural Non-doctrinal Horse-hockey: It's the caffiene in coffee and tea that the word of wisdom is actually talking about. After all, it's addictive! Therefore, no pepsi.

Reality - Caffiene is mildly addictive to a segment of the population. Many mormons avoid caffiene for that reason. Others don't. You can hold a temple recommend and drink pepsi. (My temple rec is sitting in my wallet right now, and I'm on my 3rd diet pepsi of the day.)

LM

slightly off topic and i understand the point trying to be made. i however think the bolded part about caffeine is offensive.

the reality is pres hinkley, not some random schmoe, said to limit caffeine and not at all if you can. there have been more than one article in the new era and ensigns about the dangers of excessive caffeine (which most ppl do consume). so yes it's not a commandment and won't stop you from going to the temple but it feels to me like mocking the authority by which the advise came.

i'm all for taking the context of advise into consideration when examining advise given from general authorities and prophets. if it is no longer valid then so be it but deal with it on those terms not in a mocking way. even the advise i discard i respect the authority of the position they held when giving it.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon InquisitiveSoul. I hope you are well today! :)

Before I comment on what you've posted on this thread, I hope you don't mind if I briefly write about some observations I've made about your posts that I've read so far.

It seems to me that you are beginning to see, hear, and understand things in a way that perhaps you have not done so in the past. I think you are making connections and understanding points of spirituality that many people who may have been members of the LDS Church for all of their lives have not yet made. If I may be so bold as to say that I believe that I see the Spirit working in you to bring principles and truths to your understanding. I think this is wonderful.

There is a line drawn called the Temple Recommend Interview. From what I understand, this is the standard for how you are judged. I've looked up the questions and they seem fairly basic. However, having been exposed to the Church and different members for much of my life, I've also heard about "implied" rules which you aren't specfically asked about in interviews.

Which leads me to my question: as you begin to find more success living on the right side of the line and hold a Temple Recommend, do you then move forward making an effort to live a "Higher Law" such as a life without Pepsi, Rated R Movies, and then wear Holy Underwear? Is this Higher Law (sorry I don't know whatelse to call it) discussed or implied in any way?

If you recall from one of the other threads that you started I commented on the principle that a large part of this life is us discerning truth and light and then acting on that knowledge once it is gained. There is a principle of increasing the light and truth that we receive. This increase in light and truth comes by means of obedience. God gives us basic principles at first for us accept and obey. When we accept and obey these basic principles, more knowledge and more light is given to us. To help illustrate what I'm talking about we can compare the law of tithing to the law of consecration.

The law of tithing is that we are to pay a tenth of all our income to the Church. Accepting and living the law of tithing is a prerequisite to baptism. It is also a prerequisite to receiving a Temple Recommend and going to the temple to receive our Endowment. All of this assumes that one has received the truth of living the law of the tithe and are obediently living this law.

Now, I do not know the level of your understanding of the Endowment ceremony that is performed in the temple, so I will give a brief fundamental description of it. The Endowment ceremony involves a person receiving further instruction (further truth and light) pertaining to this life and life's purpose. Like most things in the gospel this truth and light is received through covenants. A person makes additional covenants with God because they have received a higher instruction that places that individual in a position of more responsibility and accountability. Of course, these instructions and covenants also result in greater blessings and promises from God.

This brings us to the law of consecration. It is one of the laws that a person covenants with God to live when they receive their endowment. Here we could rightly say that wherein the law of tithing is the "lower law" the law of consecration is the "higher law". The law of consecration doesn't just require a tenth of our income, but it requires that we give all that we have, all of our time, and all of our effort to God to building up His kingdom and bringing to pass His purposes.

So, yes, as we receive truth, accept it, and live by it God gives us more and requires more from us. These "higher laws" we receive by covenant wherein we promise to obey and God promises to bless us further. This is one reason why you come across so many varying levels of understanding of doctrine and truth within the Church and how these principles should be applied because not all persons have equally advanced in their path to exaltation. But, it should be our goal as disciples of Christ to receive and live all things that God would have us receive and live by so that our understanding can grow and we can become like Him. Yes, having more truth and light places us in a position of greater accountability and responsibility, but it is the way of the Master and true disciples do not shrink from this reality.

Sorry for the long post. I hope you made it to the end.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

[NeuroTypical]

i however think the bolded part about caffeine is offensive.

Well, please carefully consider what it is I'm saying. I'm not claiming church leaders haven't asked us to avoid caffiene. I'm not suggesting we ignore their counsel.

I am saying that the statement "The word of wisdom is talking about caffiene, and that's why we can't drink coffee or tea" is an untrue cultural creation, supported neither by scripture, doctrine, church counsel, or even Church leader opinion. It's a completely cultural creation - it showed up and embedded itself into our consciousness the same way green jello has.

Should have been more clear - sorry.

LM

[Elgama]

we don't have R Rated movies in my country so I tend to go by the reviews and the basis of the story if its clean and not too violent I go and watch it. I drink Pepsi because it helps with my pain levels and helps stop a migraine. And I wear my garments and I am worthy to enter the temple well except for being inactive (long story) -the temple recommend interview questions are basic but they grow with you as your understanding grows the temple recommend interview I take now is not the same as the one I took 16 years ago when I first took it - however the questions haven't changed

[hordak]

Beside the the fact that caffeine rated r movies are not laws (as pointed out by others ) I have always thought "Higher laws" are the more vague while the strict ones were "lesser".

Thou shalt not commit murder is pretty straight forward, black and white. It doesn't require study, a lot of thought, personal revelation etc.

It is the equivalent of saying "Don't touch the stove" to a 5 year old.

When the people get "spiritually older" they are given a "higher law" Love thy enemy, love they neighbor, hate in the heart is murder. This takes much thought, study and revelation. What is hate? Where do we draw the line between love and acceptance? etc. etc.

This is like telling a 12 year old they can cook themselves lunch but must be careful. The need to think about what is careful. How to use knifes, and the stove in a safe manor.This also show a level of trust in the child.

[Faded]

and then wear Holy Underwear? Is this Higher Law (sorry I don't know what else to call it) discussed or implied in any way?

Careful though we might be about discussing the temple, "Holy Underwear" is certainly not a proper name for it. The Garment of the Holy Priesthood would be the longer name, but if you must shorten it down, please just call them "garments."

"Holy Underwear" is a preferred verbiage used by Anti-Mormons to refer to the garments of the Holy Priesthood. It's akin to the usage of the term "Golden Bible" being used to refer to the Book of Mormon.

I can tell that you didn't mean anything by it, but bear in mind that it's not the most polite wording for things.

Notions of the Higher Law should be pursued with care. The greatest mistake made by those who have personal revelation on things like PG13 movies or chocolate or whatever you like -- is when they try to apply those personal revelations to anyone but themselves.

[tubaloth]

Really the way the church looks at is there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The temple recommend interview is the letter of the law. That is the line we are judged on (at least for the here and now). But each of those things you can find a spirit of the law also. The spirit of law is left to each individual their own way of looking at it.

The thought is, yes you are doing what is required to gain into the temple. Some feel that is good enough (Temple is a symbol of the Celestial Kingdom). Others feel that you can gain more blessings by not only living the letter, but also the spirit of the law. This probably is true, but can't really be proven. (unless D&C 131 comes in)

In the end, it kind of just comes down to how the person wants to live there life. I know I'm against Rate R Movies. But really I play Rated R games (they probably have the same stuff in them). Am I really making any head way here?

But really this is why the Plan of Salvation was given. God is trying to teach us to be more like him, to overcome the natural man, and to grow in Faith. That is the test of this life. We all grow differently. Some feel the letter is good enough. Some feel their actions aren't enough to keep them out of Heaven. To each their own.