What is our goal, our "perfection"?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Recent threads have made me think about my definition of "perfection." I am curious what others think of the goal of perfection. When we read metaphors like, "straight and narrow path" and "iron rod" it makes me think of a single pathway to perfection. Of course, I understand that our circumstances and our tests are different and we will be judged accordingly, where much is given much is expected.

My question is; Are we all aiming for the same end? To become the same indistinguishable God? Or, are there different levels of maximum perfection for different individuals? (I am using the word "maximum" because I am not trying to compare different stages of development which we know exist as Joseph Smith explained it, I am just talking about the infinite direction we want to head)

I am not talking about other species or other states of beings placed in their individual spheres for what they were created and that is "perfection." I am asking about the maximum achievable state for every son and daughter of God on Earth. ... that to me has always been just one thing, which is to be exactly like our Heavenly Parents.

It seems to me, in recent threads, some have different perceptions of what their maximum achievable "perfection" is, like not being sealed to an eternal partner for example. To me, anything less than what God is now is not "perfection" or the fullness of joy or Eternal Life. Yes, I understand that it will still take time to get there even after death, so I am not talking about our immediate states after death. I am just asking about the single pathway (it seems to me) that exists once Eternal Life is achieved. The spacious building is "spacious" because there are many different voices and pathways and ways of being in a spacious building. But, a rod is single and of one voice. Also think of this in terms of us saying, God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. We want to achieve that state, that we are the same forever, right?

Hypothetically, an example of this is, I think if Heavenly Father or Jesus were put in a similar situation there would only be one course of action, or one statement or one right thing to do. This is why we can say they are "one." If we want to be "one" with Christ and have His image in our continence I don't think we can turn around and say that there will be different "personalities" or doing things in a different way or different types of perfection. It all merges into one common path. We may be at different points on the path, but for me there is only one path. I'm curious if other LDS believe the same or not.

[JudoMinja]

Everyone is capable of becoming as Heavenly Father. You are correct in that there is one singular path and one singular goal. Perfection is to become as God by following the example of Jesus Christ.

However, there are many who would not be happy being perfect. Take, for example, the level of cleanliness people desire for their homes. Some are not satisfied until their home is spotless, obsessively cleaning everything. Some, similarly, desire a spotless house but are not as driven to obtain that level of cleanliness. They do not deem it as important as pursuing other matters, so they do not mind if their home is just a little untidy. Others will keep their homes clean but "lived in" and are perfectly happy with such, and so on until you reach the person who is an utter slob and lives in a pig sty, but is just fine living in such conditions.

The key here is that each is happy with the conditions they are living in. If they are not happy with the level of cleanliness of their home, they need to work to change that by either changing their cleaning habits or deciding to be happy with their home the way it is. I think heaven is much like this, metaphorically speaking.

We are all capable of obtaining perfection, or the perfectly spotless house, and that would be our goal if we truly desire perfection or to be like God. But many will choose not to follow the straight and narrow so completely and entirely. Some will be happy with their "lived in homes", and some will be happy with their pig sty's (or great and spacious buildings).

What matters is what goal you set for yourself. God has shown us the path we need to travel if we want to become like him. He has set that goal for us, and made sure that goal is obtainable. However, we will only reach that goal if it is the goal WE want, the goal we set for ourselves, and we are willing to do the work required to obtain it.

You can set a goal to have a spotless house, but if you aren't willing to do the necessary work, it won't happen. Set your goal at a level on par with the amount of work you are willing to do, and you will find yourself happy with the outcome, even if it isn't perfection.

[JohnnyRudick]

Recent threads have made me think about my definition of "perfection." I am curious what others think of the goal of perfection. When we read metaphors like, "straight and narrow path" and "iron rod" it makes me think of a single pathway to perfection. Of course, I understand that our circumstances and our tests are different and we will be judged accordingly, where much is given much is expected. . .

. . . The spacious building is "spacious" because there are many different voices and pathways and ways of being in a spacious building. But, a rod is single and of one voice. Also think of this in terms of us saying, God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. We want to achieve that state, that we are the same forever, right?

. . . We may be at different points on the path, but for me there is only one path. I'm curious if other LDS believe the same or not.

Remember the path only leads to the "Great and Spacious Building".:)

[rameumptom]

There are various levels of godhood, as there are mansions or levels in heaven. In the premortal existence there were spirit Gods, such as Jesus (see Abr 3). They were Gods, yet were not maximal Gods, as Heavenly Father. So we read in D&C 93 that even Jesus had to go from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace, until he received a fullness. There is progression within kingdoms (at least to a point), and so there can be various levels of godhood.

In the parable of the talents, we find that some received more than others, yet all those who did well received according to their gifts and abilities.

[mrmarklin]

Godhood is a continuum. We are all on its path, even now. Of course our Heavenly Father is much farther along the path than we are, maybe millions of years.

And we can fall along the way, pick ourselves up and start again.

But at some point sin, and the rejection of the truth can make us deviate from the path permanently.

[Seminarysnoozer]

There are various levels of godhood, as there are mansions or levels in heaven. In the premortal existence there were spirit Gods, such as Jesus (see Abr 3). They were Gods, yet were not maximal Gods, as Heavenly Father. So we read in D&C 93 that even Jesus had to go from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace, until he received a fullness. There is progression within kingdoms (at least to a point), and so there can be various levels of godhood.

In the parable of the talents, we find that some received more than others, yet all those who did well received according to their gifts and abilities.

To me, the receiving of the talents pertains to this life as part of the test.

The more general direction I am heading with this is that we live in a world where diversity is almost celebrated and admired. But, our goal is to become like God, to become less diverse. If "perfection" is one path then at some point of the funneling in from the various starting positions we become less and less diverse ... at least those that can continue in their progression. Isn't that right?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Godhood is a continuum. We are all on its path, even now. Of course our Heavenly Father is much farther along the path than we are, maybe millions of years.

And we can fall along the way, pick ourselves up and start again.

But at some point sin, and the rejection of the truth can make us deviate from the path permanently.

I think it is much easier to describe the path than describe what the goal looks like other than say the goal is to be like our Heavenly Parents. The question though is more along the lines of How much like them? Exactly like them in every way? or is there some range of qualities that still qualify as being "Heavenly Parents."

When we are at that point where we are not still 'learning the ropes', when we are simply increasing our glory, aren't we all exactly the same in terms of our characteristics, personality, behaviors etc.? The same that possibly you would say about comparing the characteristics of God and Jesus.

[Traveler]

The problem is in our modern interpretation of the ancient concept of “perfect”. I have posted on many occasions that assuming modern understanding of ancient concepts is critically flawed.

The ancient concept of perfect did not mean – without flaw. It meant whole and complete. The ancient concept of holy also meant complete as well. The question of the rich young man very much reflects the proper way or path to perfection. That is the question of “what do I lack?” Or what am I missing.

In ancient suzerain law a person must complete all covenants to be considered loyal and faithful. LDS often think they must be without flaw to fulfill covenant – that is not the case. But they must be willing to do whatever they are commanded. Jesus said it is completeness and not flawlessness that demonstrates love when he said if you love me keep my commandments.

G-d knew we were flawed when he commanded us to be perfect. G-d was not stupid – it is our understanding that is amiss. Complete gives better understanding than does flawless.

The Traveler

[Rosabella]

Seminarysnoozer

I think you have made a very important point. I feel as you do and here are my reasons.

Aside from inconsequential personal preferences like preferring the taste of blueberries over strawberries (which may turn out to be only a temporal difference and have zero eternal meaning), Heavenly Father and Mother set the perfect standard for godhood. As we grow ever closer to fulfilling Christ's example, we will find ourselves desiring more and more to shed anything that makes us act or think differently from Them. We will long to become more like Them and in the course of eternity we shall, provided we continue to submit our will to Father's.

The world teaches and praises diversity. Their concept of oneness is not uniformity in righteousness, but rather universal tolerance of all differences. In the Lord's plan, tolerance is necessary to help love people into desiring to undertake the path of discipleship, but ultimately true disciples will want to remake themselves more and more into the express likeness of God, freely and without compulsion. Just as The Son is like the Father in action and desires, so He resembles the Father so perfectly, even in appearance that Joseph Smith described them as nearly indistinguishable. I do not think that is only because Christ was the begotten Son of the Father. I would imagine that any person who attains to that level of holiness will begin to resemble our heavenly parents too.

It is pride that makes us desire uniqueness and individuality. We want to do things "Our" way. True discipleship is giving up self-centeredness and becoming selfless. In this state of humility we are teachable and are able then to be molded into the likeness of Christ, who is in the likeness of the Father. We are told to take upon us the countenance of Christ not to create an individual unique presence. There is but one path to Godhood. It is full complete purging of pride and the ultimate submission to Father's will that makes us "perfect" or "whole" or "complete".

Pride in people causes them to desire to be different, to somehow be "special". They wrongly feel that this individuality will bring them joy. The true joy comes from letting go of self and becoming one with Father in all things. He is perfection. Why would we not want to be exactly like Him?

The adversary is the example of wanting to attain Godhood his own way. It is said that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of pride. Pride is manifested in the focus on self. In D&C 1:16 it says in the last days "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall." I see this in the world today as the world preaches diversity and tolerance therein. The world revels in oneness in diversity not oneness in righteousness.

In this life we each come here with unique talents and gifts and circumstances, but that is only a temporal state in which to learn and grow to choose or not to choose to become like Father. To glory in the individual uniqueness is to glory in what is temporal not eternal. Our uniqueness here is a result in part of the fact that we have progressed in different areas and have different gifts from Father. This is a temporary state. Ultimately if we choose to continue to progress, we will become "complete or whole" meaning we will all possess all of the gifts and attributes of God.

It is interesting to note that in scriptural descriptions of the degrees of glory, the Telestial kingdom is where people differ from one another in brightness or in other words, where they are diverse. In the Terrestrial and Celestial kingdoms people are described as having only one glory. It would appear that in the higher two kingdoms people are all striving for the same goal, while in the Telestial kingdom everyone is striving to glory in their separateness and uniqueness. The two higher kingdoms are the ones which those that want to follow Father achieve. The higher the glory the more they have purged pride and have humbled themselves to be molded into the image of Christ. So in my opinion the highest level, where people become exactly like Father is to literally become like Him in all ways. The key is understanding that at no point is anyone forced to conform to the divine standard, we are free to be as similar to or as different from Father and each other as we want. If it is critically important to us to maintain a really unique and separate way of being, then we will find the Telestial kingdom to be the most comfortable place for us. If on the other hand we are not so prideful and attached egotistically to our individuality and uniqueness, then we will have no difficulty seeking to conform more perfectly to Father's example and will find joy in a higher glory.

There is only one path to the highest level of Glory and it is complete and true humility and full total submission to Father that leads us onto it. On this path we choose to be as much like Him as we are willing to submit.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Rosabella, thank you. This isn't something that is discussed in Sunday School. I appreciate all of your responses.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I once heard a martial artist answer the question -- when is a particular defense/offensive technique perfect? The answer he gave -- when it's effortless.

I believe perfection is achieved when its effortless to do what is right and good. Thank goodness we have eternity for possessing a righteous character to become effortless...

[Guest]

It is not the "straight" and narrow path. It is the "strait" and narrow path. A strait is not straight - it can be winding. It is narrow but it is navigable.

We undergo eternal progression - it doesn't stop, forever. So the "ultimate" perfection is... infinity. But, at every stage, we can achieve perfection so that we are ready for the next stage.

For example, we can achieve perfection in earth life so that when we die, we go to spirit heaven. If we don't achieve perfection, we stay in Spirit Prison until we perfect ourselves. Just because we achieved this perfection doesn't mean it ends there. It just means we're ready for the next phase.

[Seminarysnoozer]

It is not the "straight" and narrow path. It is the "strait" and narrow path. A strait is not straight - it can be winding. It is narrow but it is navigable.

We undergo eternal progression - it doesn't stop, forever. So the "ultimate" perfection is... infinity. But, at every stage, we can achieve perfection so that we are ready for the next stage.

For example, we can achieve perfection in earth life so that when we die, we go to spirit heaven. If we don't achieve perfection, we stay in Spirit Prison until we perfect ourselves. Just because we achieved this perfection doesn't mean it ends there. It just means we're ready for the next phase.

This is why I was trying to say that I was talking about approaching that infinity. It's hard to talk about infinity, obviously, but I guess the thing that can be said is the further we are along that path the more similar we all become.

In other words, perfection doesn't look like this --< it looks like this >--

With perfection we become less diverse.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I once heard a martial artist answer the question -- when is a particular defense/offensive technique perfect? The answer he gave -- when it's effortless.

I believe perfection is achieved when its effortless to do what is right and good. Thank goodness we have eternity for possessing a righteous character to become effortless...

For me, things are effortless when the right choice is clear, when its obvious that there is only one right thing to do. (Which, at this point in life, doesn't happen enough )

[Seminarysnoozer]

Seminarysnoozer

I think you have made a very important point. I feel as you do and here are my reasons.

It is pride that makes us desire uniqueness and individuality. We want to do things "Our" way. True discipleship is giving up self-centeredness and becoming selfless. In this state of humility we are teachable and are able then to be molded into the likeness of Christ, who is in the likeness of the Father. We are told to take upon us the countenance of Christ not to create an individual unique presence. There is but one path to Godhood. It is full complete purging of pride and the ultimate submission to Father's will that makes us "perfect" or "whole" or "complete".

Pride in people causes them to desire to be different, to somehow be "special". They wrongly feel that this individuality will bring them joy. The true joy comes from letting go of self and becoming one with Father in all things. He is perfection. Why would we not want to be exactly like Him?

The adversary is the example of wanting to attain Godhood his own way. It is said that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of pride. Pride is manifested in the focus on self. In D&C 1:16 it says in the last days "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall." I see this in the world today as the world preaches diversity and tolerance therein. The world revels in oneness in diversity not oneness in righteousness.

In this life we each come here with unique talents and gifts and circumstances, but that is only a temporal state in which to learn and grow to choose or not to choose to become like Father. To glory in the individual uniqueness is to glory in what is temporal not eternal. Our uniqueness here is a result in part of the fact that we have progressed in different areas and have different gifts from Father. This is a temporary state. Ultimately if we choose to continue to progress, we will become "complete or whole" meaning we will all possess all of the gifts and attributes of God.

Thanks for saying it better than I ever could.

I have always found it interesting how some people, possibly with pride in their hearts, say that because they are top piano players in this life they will be excellent piano players in the next. Or because they were mathematicians here they will serve some kind of similar roll in the next life. Or if they are blond haired, blue eyed they will be in the next too.

I think this life is a temporary. probationary existence with temporary characteristics, personalities and traits that are for the purposes of this life that is never more evident than in people who are born with life altering diseases such as muscular dystrophy, or Down's Syndrome, cystic fibrosis, dyslexia .... we can go on and on. We all have limitations of some kind which in turn allows there to be disparity amongst many talents and abilities. Without those limitations and if we are in the Celestial Kingdom in the next life, there will be very little disparity.

The truth is, as we progress, there will not be much of a disparity between our skills and talents. Yes, it will be to our advantage in the next life as we will still be progressing for some time. But eventually, I will play basketball as adept as any professional, I will be able to speak as eloquently as President Monson ... or whatever skill that is virtuous, lovely or of good report, etc.

Why is it important in this life? Because, if one holds onto diversity like it is a virtue then in essence they are telling God that they like the idea of what we will see in the Telestial Kingdom. If one holds an 'eye single to the glory of God', well then, one holds onto this idea of looking, acting and being exactly like all those around her.

[Rosabella]

Seminarysnoozer

Thank you for your kind words, but I think you have expressed your thoughts very eloquently and have worded things in a way that I wanted to say also :)

I agree with all that you are saying. This topic for me has been a lifetime fascination. The understanding of humility and pride, the examples in there fullness are Christ and Lucifer. Understanding these two paths is what we are truly here to learn and choose between. The goal is to become like Father in the way Christ did. To become as Father we need to completely submit our wills to Him, therefore doing as Christ did. If we choose our own will at any point of progression and do not repent of it then we have become prideful like Lucifer and have followed his example and become like him instead.

[rameumptom]

This is why I was trying to say that I was talking about approaching that infinity. It's hard to talk about infinity, obviously, but I guess the thing that can be said is the further we are along that path the more similar we all become.

In other words, perfection doesn't look like this --< it looks like this >--

With perfection we become less diverse.

Personally, I think as we reach perfection we become MORE diverse. Sin and weakness cause us to be less diverse. Diversity comes through agency, and who has more agency, God or Satan? I work in a prison, and you would be amazed at how so many of them think and act alike - like chattel. However, those who expand their abilities, knowledge, etc., are able to think in many diverse ways, even on the same subject.

For example, who is more diverse on understanding the Bible: someone who only watches the Ten Commandments at Easter, or the scholar who studies ancient and modern supporting texts? The same goes with math, science, art, and any other field of study. Since God is able to achieve a greater level of understanding in all areas, he is able to view things from more perspectives than we are, and still come to a determination of the truth. Just because the Gods are united in purpose does not mean they are not also diverse in their kingdoms, gifts and abilities, as they seek to greater perfections.

For example, who is more perfect, Jesus as a God-Spirit or Jesus as a resurrected-God? As said, it is all on a pathway towards greater godhood and diversity/ability.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Personally, I think as we reach perfection we become MORE diverse. Sin and weakness cause us to be less diverse. Diversity comes through agency, and who has more agency, God or Satan? I work in a prison, and you would be amazed at how so many of them think and act alike - like chattel. However, those who expand their abilities, knowledge, etc., are able to think in many diverse ways, even on the same subject.

For example, who is more diverse on understanding the Bible: someone who only watches the Ten Commandments at Easter, or the scholar who studies ancient and modern supporting texts? The same goes with math, science, art, and any other field of study. Since God is able to achieve a greater level of understanding in all areas, he is able to view things from more perspectives than we are, and still come to a determination of the truth. Just because the Gods are united in purpose does not mean they are not also diverse in their kingdoms, gifts and abilities, as they seek to greater perfections.

For example, who is more perfect, Jesus as a God-Spirit or Jesus as a resurrected-God? As said, it is all on a pathway towards greater godhood and diversity/ability.

I understand what you are saying and I agree. I guess I was trying to say, as a people, as a group, more diverse not as an individual. Or comparing the disparity between any two individuals of a group. Of course, the individual becomes more capable and abilities expand and opportunities expand the more Christlike we become. I agree.

I was more trying to say that "perfection" isn't having some people good at some things and others good at other things ... having all the bases covered. Perfect is having any person able to play any position equally as well as anyone else. And you are right, for any one of those individuals their options are expanded. But the appearance of one individual compared to another is less diverse the closer we get to "perfection". There is less disparity between any two individuals. (that's the thought at least)

[Hemidakota]

Recent threads have made me think about my definition of "perfection." I am curious what others think of the goal of perfection. When we read metaphors like, "straight and narrow path" and "iron rod" it makes me think of a single pathway to perfection. Of course, I understand that our circumstances and our tests are different and we will be judged accordingly, where much is given much is expected.

My question is; Are we all aiming for the same end? To become the same indistinguishable God? Or, are there different levels of maximum perfection for different individuals? (I am using the word "maximum" because I am not trying to compare different stages of development which we know exist as Joseph Smith explained it, I am just talking about the infinite direction we want to head)

I am not talking about other species or other states of beings placed in their individual spheres for what they were created and that is "perfection." I am asking about the maximum achievable state for every son and daughter of God on Earth. ... that to me has always been just one thing, which is to be exactly like our Heavenly Parents.

It seems to me, in recent threads, some have different perceptions of what their maximum achievable "perfection" is, like not being sealed to an eternal partner for example. To me, anything less than what God is now is not "perfection" or the fullness of joy or Eternal Life. Yes, I understand that it will still take time to get there even after death, so I am not talking about our immediate states after death. I am just asking about the single pathway (it seems to me) that exists once Eternal Life is achieved. The spacious building is "spacious" because there are many different voices and pathways and ways of being in a spacious building. But, a rod is single and of one voice. Also think of this in terms of us saying, God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. We want to achieve that state, that we are the same forever, right?

Hypothetically, an example of this is, I think if Heavenly Father or Jesus were put in a similar situation there would only be one course of action, or one statement or one right thing to do. This is why we can say they are "one." If we want to be "one" with Christ and have His image in our continence I don't think we can turn around and say that there will be different "personalities" or doing things in a different way or different types of perfection. It all merges into one common path. We may be at different points on the path, but for me there is only one path. I'm curious if other LDS believe the same or not.

To serve our beloved Master - Jesus the Christ.

[Rosabella]

Personally, I think as we reach perfection we become MORE diverse. Sin and weakness cause us to be less diverse. Diversity comes through agency, and who has more agency, God or Satan? I work in a prison, and you would be amazed at how so many of them think and act alike - like chattel. However, those who expand their abilities, knowledge, etc., are able to think in many diverse ways, even on the same subject.

For example, who is more diverse on understanding the Bible: someone who only watches the Ten Commandments at Easter, or the scholar who studies ancient and modern supporting texts? The same goes with math, science, art, and any other field of study. Since God is able to achieve a greater level of understanding in all areas, he is able to view things from more perspectives than we are, and still come to a determination of the truth. Just because the Gods are united in purpose does not mean they are not also diverse in their kingdoms, gifts and abilities, as they seek to greater perfections.

For example, who is more perfect, Jesus as a God-Spirit or Jesus as a resurrected-God? As said, it is all on a pathway towards greater godhood and diversity/ability.

I think I understand what you are saying here and agree, but I want to clarify what I am trying to say. Personally I would not connect the positive side of agency with diversity.

Sometimes we are saying the same thing but thinking different definitions of words. Here is the definition I am using when I refer to diversity:

diversity

1. the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness.

2. a point of difference.

Synonyms change, difference, variation, dissimilarity.

diverse

1. of a different kind, form, character, etc.; unlike: a wide range of diverse opinions.

Synonyms

1. varied, manifold, divergent.

2. dissimilar, separate.

Antonyms

identical, same, uniform, similar.

These to me seem to be in direct opposition with the oneness we are told to have with Father.

When we truly follow Christ we become one with Him and we become more like Him. When we follow Lucifer's prideful ways we become more like him. I think that is why you see those that have fallen into sin acting like chattel. There are truly only two paths to be and become more like. Both if followed to their fullness create an appearance of similarities.

There is opposition in all things to learn and grow and choose between them. Christ or Lucifer; righteousness and wickedness; holiness versus misery; good versus bad. We choose between two paths. It is by our Moral Agency we get to choose.

Agency or Moral Agency is a vital piece in this discussion for it plays the key role in our progression or lack of progression.

This is a wonderful talk that I have found myself pondering over for hours.

Moral Agency. D. Todd Christofferson, “Moral Agency,” Ensign, Jun 2009, 46–53

LDS.org LINK

Here are some quotes:

“Using our agency to choose God’s will, and not slackening even when the going gets hard, will not make us God’s puppet; it will make us like Him. God gave us agency, and Jesus showed us how to use it so that we could eventually learn what They know, do what They do, and become what They are. Remember that with His gift of moral agency, our Heavenly Father has graciously provided us help to exercise that agency in a way that will yield precious, positive fruit in our life here and hereafter.”

“While Satan cannot actually destroy law and truth, he accomplishes the same result in the lives of those who heed him by convincing them that whatever they think is right is right and that there is no ultimate truth—every man is his own god, and there is no sin.”

“The Savior’s use of moral agency during His lifetime is an instructive example for us. At one point in His teaching He revealed the principle that guided His choices: “He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him” (John 8:29; see also 3 Nephi 11:11).

I believe that much of the Lord’s power is attributable to the fact that He never wavered in that determination. He had a clear, consistent direction. Whatever the Father desired, Jesus chose to do.

Being Jesus’s obedient disciple—just as He is the Father’s obedient disciple—leads to truth and freedom: “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed” (John 8:36).

To the secular world it seems a paradox that greater submission to God yields greater freedom. The world looks at things through Korihor’s lens, considering obedience to God’s laws and ordinances to be “bondage” (Alma 30:24, 27).”

So yes, true freedom comes from the correct use of our Agency. Freedom, liberty and progression are not in the diversity itself but in the agency that diversity or opposition offers us to choose between. We choose to submit our will or to not to. There are only two choices. I feel we cannot become more diverse and become more like Father at the same time. We must become identical and uniform with Father to be like Him.

Our personal diversities are described as talents or weaknesses. Weaknesses are given to all men so they might be humble. Talents are given to better serve the kingdom of God but sadly can also create pride.

The diversity in man in this temporal world serves its divine purpose. It enables us to have the varieties of choice and experiences that drive us to choose between the only two choices we have: to serve God or serve the devil. We choose by agency to serve one or the other. True progression to the level of wholeness and perfection is purging all of our pride or our desire for separation, uniqueness or diversity from God and becoming completely like Father.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Rosabella

[Hemidakota]

If you want to be perfect, there is no such account of anyone from Adam until now that reached 100-percent perfection [by themselves]. After researching more than twenty years, on this specific topic from various scriptures accounts, scholars, and those of this latter-day, who all sought the same, never can achieve this pinnacle of life without heavenly support.

What I realize for myself, we can never obtain it in view of the fact that we are born with mortal parents, inheriting their genetic diversity. We still need the Atonement and the support of the Godhead, in order to reach a state what is term, ‘Our Own State of Perfection.’ Note the life of former prophets from Adam until now, all of which are called perfect by GOD, but are still fallible with humbly inherited frailties. How can GOD call them PERFECT?

Base on our pre-mortal birth, our spiritual past, [mortal] parental teachings, cultural learning, and our own desire, we still fall short in any case by these frailties. In seeking for such, I would start with understanding the content in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 93, and apply what the Savior taught Joseph. There are basic principles but it is more-or-less, line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept, until we arrive at that perfect day. You know, in order to be perfect, the Godhead will need to raise our soul to their level, until we final reach that state that we can stand on our own feet. Until then, we strive to know end, wearing those ‘gospel shoes’ as my friend and brother, President Spencer W. Kimball did, in wearing out his life in pursuant in serving GOD.

[Traveler]

How to be perfect:

Step #1. Have faith in the L-rd Jesus Christ

Step #2. Repent

Step #3. Engage in and embrace the covenant of Baptism.

Step #4. Recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (priesthood authority)

Step #5. Remain faithful to your covenants and follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Being perfect is not at all as difficult as most make it out to be. In fact it is so simple even a child can do it.

The Traveler

[JohnnyRudick]

How to be perfect:

Step #1. Have faith in the L-rd Jesus Christ

Step #2. Repent

Step #3. Engage in and embrace the covenant of Baptism.

Step #4. Recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (priesthood authority)

Step #5. Remain faithful to your covenants and follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Being perfect is not at all as difficult as most make it out to be. In fact it is so simple even a child can do it.

The Traveler

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, yes.

But could a Cave Man do it?

[Hemidakota]

Oh man...no laugh button.

[Hemidakota]

One key for those who are close to perfection is when they come into a room and the room electrifies [light emitting] with a condition of overwhelming love. Example of President Benson walked into the San Diego civic center, you can feel the emitting of radiant love and light filling the space.