The People before Adam

[Hemidakota]

Thinking it over a bit,

I still do not think if effects your Salvation if you do not believe it whole wholeheartedly.

I think it something to be concerned with depending on which way you are moving though.

If you put your face away from what God has said and account much as myth,

And you keep going in that direction it could in time lead you more away then

you at first intended.

The wiser you think you are, the more I feel the danger.

Only true source of instruction lies with the Godhead. When we do depart from the path, if remain humble and sincere enough, the Spirit we aid us and help us back to the same narrow path of knowledge. We will not always have the complete picture at once. But, let it not distract our main goal here in the gospel.

I use to believe that dinos were either part of the creation of this world or died off prior to the flood. Later, when I reached enough maturity in the gospel, this concept that was formulated outside of the Spirit, was altered through further instruction that came when I can understand what happened and why they remain. What I now find surprising, if there is an arduous question that is unanswerable by current means, when I receive the answer, another member of the family receives the same. Two witnesses - pattern noted here. We compare notes on what is given.

Even I had asked for input about ‘Dark Energy’. My purpose of what I believe and what others added will aid me in drawing a conclusion after further research both science and prophetic input to this specific subject. It is then I can approach the Godhead with my answer to see whether it is correct or not. If I am wrong, when I ready, I will receive an answer.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Hemidakota

[HiJolly]

I had to calm her down.

Good luck with that! I guess some calm more easily than others....

And with that, I'd say this derail is getting into mighty dangerous waters!

HiJolly

[Hemidakota]

Thanks, Hemi--- I see I got Alma 11 (Amulek) and Alma 40 (Alma) a bit confused. <sigh>

It was Mormon's account of Amulek contending with Zeezrom where it is stated that the body and spirit will never again separate. So my point is lost, I'm afraid. Still, Mormon is summarizing and says "And thus ended the words of Amulek, or this is all that I have written."

HiJolly

Are you referring to Alma 11:32-46?

32 And Zeezrom said again: Who is he that shall come? Is it the Son of God?

33 And he said unto him, Yea.

34 And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people ain their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.

35 Now Zeezrom said unto the people: See that ye remember these things; for he said there is but one God; yet he saith that the Son of God shall come, but he shall anot save his people—as though he had authority to command God.

36 Now Amulek saith again unto him: Behold thou hast alied, for thou sayest that I spake as though I had authority to command God because I said he shall not save his people in their sins.

37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their asins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that bno unclean thing can inherit the ckingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?

39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very aEternal Father of heaven and of earth, and ball things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;

40 And he shall come into the aworld to bredeem his people; and he shall ctake upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else.

41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been ano redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death; for behold, the day cometh that ball shall rise from the dead and stand before God, and be cjudged according to their works.

42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the abands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.

43 The spirit and the body shall be areunited again in its bperfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, cknowing even as we know now, and have a bright drecollection of all our eguilt.

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be arestored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the bFather, and the Holy Spirit, which is cone Eternal God, to be djudged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the adeath of the mortal body, and also concerning the bresurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is craised to an dimmortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can edie no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming fspiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.

46 Now, when Amulek had finished these words the people began again to be astonished, and also Zeezrom began to tremble. And thus ended the words of Amulek, or this is all that I have written.

Are you referring too Alma 40:1-3?

1 Now my son, here is somewhat more I would say unto thee; for I perceive that thy mind is worried concerning the resurrection of the dead.

2 Behold, I say unto you, that there is no resurrection—or, I would say, in other words, that this mortal does not put on aimmortality, this corruption does not bput on incorruption—cuntil after the coming of Christ.

3 Behold, he bringeth to pass the aresurrection of the dead. But behold, my son, the resurrection is not yet. Now, I unfold unto you a mystery; nevertheless, there are many bmysteries which are ckept, that no one knoweth them save God himself. But I show unto you one thing which I have inquired diligently of God that I might know—that is concerning the resurrection.

[Shade]

"I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it."

i appreciate his kinda testimony

[Seminarysnoozer]

I hope they had physical bodies while in the garden.

I believe they did. And I thought most LDS believe that too, that is why I was kind of shocked by HiJolly's view that they didn't. .... then later he said it is complicated. So, I am not understanding what he is saying.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have attended many different wards across this land here in America.

Most of the people I have encountered take the Creation account in the Scriptures as literal

and believe as Joseph F Smith has taught.

I am one of these.

I have never ran into a group in all my years until now who reject the account given to us from God,

and then account that rejection as Divine wisdom on our part.

But it is still a free would for most of us these days.

Just look at what man can accomplish.

Do you not think that God can accomplish much more on a grander scale in a few days?

Kimball taught that the creation of woman from the rib of the man is to be taken figuratively. Ensign 1976

[Hemidakota]

Month of the Ensign?

[Hemidakota]

I believe they did. And I thought most LDS believe that too, that is why I was kind of shocked by HiJolly's view that they didn't. .... then later he said it is complicated. So, I am not understanding what he is saying.

Not all members share this viewpoint. I for one do. As most have a different or no opinion to the mystery behind the ‘rib story’ but what is a cordial statement of bringing to people together in marriage of bonding.

[Hemidakota]

Kimball taught that the creation of woman from the rib of the man is to be taken figuratively. Ensign 1976

MARCH, ENSIGN 1976?

While researching out which Ensign, discovered an article, which articulate some of Kimball's reference article ['Eve's Role in the Creation and the Fall to Mortality', by Jolene E. Rockwood];

Church leaders have reiterated this truth numerous times. Spencer W. Kimball, for instance, as president of the Church, stated that the rib story was figurative. [2] Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, and others stated that Adam and Eve's bodies were engendered and born by natural sexual functioning and that they were placed in Eden as adult beings. [3] Orson Pratt and, more recently, Hugh Nibley taught that the pair were tempted on numerous occasions, not only by the serpent but by other "beings" who had been "angels of light and truth" in the premortal existence but had then become followers of Satan. [4] Other Latter-day Saint authorities have taught that Adam and Eve became mortal by eating a substance that was poisonous to their immortal systems and that the tree and the fruit were symbols representing the process by which the Fall came about. [5]

FOOTNOTES:

2. Brigham Young, 9 Apr. 1852, in Journal of Discourses, 1:50; 23 Oct. 1853, in Journal of Discourses, 2:6; 20 Apr. 1856, in Journal of Discourses, 3:319; 9 Oct. 1859, in Journal of Discourses, 7:285; Orson Pratt, 13 Apr. 1856, in Journal of Discourses, 3:344; Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., comp. Bruce R. McConkie (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1954-56) 1:97. The reader may note here and in many following instances that teachings in the doctrine of the Church and the accounts given in the books of Moses, Abraham, and Genesis may seem to differ from the depiction of the Creation and the Fall in the temple ceremony. The intent of the temple ceremony seems to be much the same as the intent of the Genesis account: to present ideas through symbols and figurative language, which have many layers of meaning. It is perhaps appropriate that the Creation story in the temple is presented in a symbolic fashion, as the rest of the endowment is highly ritualistic and has numerous levels of meaning. To interpret the visual (film) depiction of the Creation and the Fall as only history rather than also as a figurative representation of underlying truths would deviate from the intent of the temple experience as a whole. One part cannot be interpreted as strictly symbolic and another as strictly historical. (See Boyd K. Packer, The Holy Temple [salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1980], pp. 38-41, on the symbolic nature of temple instruction.) Hyrum Andrus, in noting the difference between the temple portrayal and the books of Abraham and Moses said: "A study of the problem suggests that the temple ceremony gives merely a general portrayal and not an actual account of the creation." Hyrum Andrus, God, Man and the Universe, 2d ed., 4 vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1970), 1:333-34, footnote. This footnote does not appear in later editions. See also Packer, Holy Temple, pp. 191-94; John K. Edmunds, Through Temple Doors, 4th ed. (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1979), pp. 73-74.

3. Orson Pratt, 22 Nov. 1873, in Journal of Discourses, 16:318; Hugh Nibley, "Patriarchy and Matriarchy," in Blueprints for Living, ed. Maren M. Mouritsen (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1980), p. 46.

4. See, for instance, Erastus Snow, 3 Mar. 1878, in Journal of Discourses, 19:271-72.

5. In English, 'adam could have several different meanings, and ambiguity leading to inconsistency in English translations of Genesis. If 'adam appears alone without the Hebrew definitive article ha- preceding it, it could mean either "man" as a collective (mankind, humanity) or "Adam" as a proper name. There are only two places in the text where it definitely occurs this way, and in both places the context dictates translation as a collective humankind: one is in Gen. 1:27 where 'adam is used with a plural pronoun "them," and the other is in Gen. 2:5, where the presence of the negative before 'adam would make translation of 'adam as a proper name awkward: "there was not a man to till the ground." Three other places in the text are uncertain because the word 'adam is preceded by a preposition which in Hebrew would eliminate the ha: 2:20, 3:17, and 3:21. See John Ellington, "Man and Adam in Genesis 1-5," The Bible Translator 30 (April 1979): 210-15; Gerhard Von Rad, Genesis, 2d Lussier, " 'Adam in Genesis 1, 1-4, 24": 137-39.

[Moksha]

Come on now, what would you ask for?

To mark me down as one who loved his fellow beings and God. Even including my fellow being's inner Nethanderal.

[buffyscrubs]

William Evenson and Duane Jeffery told dozens of people gathered at Utah Valley State College on Tuesday that what definitely has evolved over time is the position taken by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the issue."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sopranos dvd

The Vampire Diaries dvd

Dark Angel dvd

[Hemidakota]

Not to belittled both William and Duane, but Joseph Smith stated this already.

[rameumptom]

Can we state this to Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Moses?

Yes. We can. Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses did not know what science is. It was not within their mode of understanding, just as many things we know and experience today would have been outside their full understanding.

They saw every particle of the earth, but what does that mean? Does that mean huge chunks of a huge planet, or does it mean they saw each quark? The scripture doesn't say, nor would they have understood it in a way to describe it to us, as they did not have an understanding of atoms, molecules, DNA, RNA, string theory, or microbes.

God could have shown them many things in metaphor, and they would not have known the difference, except that such is the way the ancients understood things. The Egyptians, Isaiah, etc., wrote and understood symbolism, and how such applied in many ways to many situations. The Book of Abraham could come from a copy of the sen sen/Book of the Dead manuscripts, and translate both the way scholars read it today, and also the way Joseph Smith translated it. Yet, our modern minds cannot comprehend how it can mean more than one thing at a time. We want concrete answers for everything - whether it is concerning the Creation in six 24-hour periods, or via evolutionary process. The ancients would have accepted both methods as true, as they are all based on symbolism and cycles of events.

[rameumptom]

I wish I had one Moksha ...what would you ask first?

Do these jeans make me look fat?

[rameumptom]

I have attended many different wards across this land here in America.

Most of the people I have encountered take the Creation account in the Scriptures as literal

and believe as Joseph F Smith has taught.

I am one of these.

I have never ran into a group in all my years until now who reject the account given to us from God,

and then account that rejection as Divine wisdom on our part.

But it is still a free would for most of us these days.

Just look at what man can accomplish.

Do you not think that God can accomplish much more on a grander scale in a few days?

Johnny, this is bull-hockey. No one here rejects the account of the Creation in Genesis. We just do not interpret it in the same way you do. Just because everyone once believed the world was flat does not mean it is so. It is too easy for religionists to ignore Galileo, or fight him outright, in order to maintain their own interpretation of the data.

God has revealed SEVERAL Creation stories in Genesis (3 are in there), Book of Abraham, Book of Moses and the temple. Each is at least slightly different from the others, and a couple are extremely different.

God has shown how he does things. There is a pattern. The same God who created the world also brought forth the Restoration. The same pattern is in both works. Before Joseph Smith there were prophets and periods of gospel and apostasy. There was a Reformation that prepared everything for the Restoration. In essence, there were "pre-Josephites."

[Seminarysnoozer]

Not all members share this viewpoint. I for one do. As most have a different or no opinion to the mystery behind the ‘rib story’ but what is a cordial statement of bringing to people together in marriage of bonding.

As you point out here, the rib reference symbolizes marriage. But that also supports them having bodies before the fall, unless those people that believe they didn't also believe marriage can take place as spirits.

.... and you got the month already posted, March 1976; Spencer W. Kimball, “The Blessings and Responsibilities of Womanhood,” Ensign, Mar 1976, 70;

"The role of woman was fixed even before she was created, and God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is written:

“And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them. [The story of the rib, of course, is figurative.]

“And I, God, blessed them [Man here is always in the plural. It was plural from the beginning.] and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over [it].” (Moses 2:27–28.) "

He also later in that same article says; “All things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.” There were no guesses here, no trial and error."

...in other words, there was no failure on this earth or failed races or species etc..

[Horus_53]

Not just the apocrapha was considered 'missing' from the scriptures. The original first 5 books of the OT, were also a summary or abridgement from a well known earlier source - that unfortunately has not survived to the present time.

Who knows how much other material falls into the same category.

[Hemidakota]

This was my thought, when the Jaredites had an earlier record that was before Moses day. Did these records survive the civil strife and wars between themselves? When I read Moroni statement in not referring back to the earlier account of Adam since we had them already, which record did he refer too? The Plated of Brass or the Jaredites record? I believe, they have the Plate of Brass, which we have the same five books of Moses.

[Moksha]

Kimball taught that the creation of woman from the rib of the man is to be taken figuratively. Ensign 1976

So how would this apply to the women before Adam?

[Hemidakota]

What women? :)

[JohnnyRudick]

Johnny, this is bull-hockey. No one here rejects the account of the Creation in Genesis. We just do not interpret it in the same way you do. Just because everyone once believed the world was flat does not mean it is so. It is too easy for religionists to ignore Galileo, or fight him outright, in order to maintain their own interpretation of the data. . .

Isaiah 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not

been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the

foundations of the earth?

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the

earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that

stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out

as a tent to dwell in:

[Moksha]

What women? :)

The women who were the wives and daughters of the men before Adam. You know, the ones who were pounding out manioc and sewing animal skins, when they were not acting as a priestesses.

[Hemidakota]

What purpose would they have for Adam when they are still beating cloth against the rock?

[Moksha]

What purpose would they have for Adam when they are still beating cloth against the rock?

Perhaps waiting for the rock to become a branch then a ward. Takes a lot of beating to get that cloth Sunday white.

[Revelationstoo]

Some refer to this earth as being made up from fragments of other failed worlds. Can anyone cite any recorded revelations to substantiate that premise?

Man was made in the image of God. We are all spirit children of God.

I know of no prototypes.

I know of no prototype worlds.

Is there any basis for claiming this world is in any manner different from all other worlds created?

Has not the same things done in this world been the same pattern and scope and tests that millions of other worlds have had to face and trials and tests to face?

Is there any reason to doubt that an adversary performed a similar function to the first man and woman in other worlds?

Is there any reason to doubt that those spirit children of God who likewise kept their first estate and were sent to other worlds must face the same trials and tests that we do?

I ask these things because sometimes I feel we overlook the fact that the creative process is a never ending work in progress. Fathers works are endless. His work and glory has been, is now and will forever be to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of all of His children, past, present and future.