Pat Robertson

[Snow]

Pat Robertson is a big fat idiot and gives Christians a real real bad name.

Pat Robertson of the 700 club says that Ariel Sharon (who is seriously ill with a stroke) is being punished by God for dividing Israel.

He’s an idiot but so much of this could be avoided if - everytime before he spoke he just stopped and asked himself - Is this really really stupid? - If the answer is Yes, it’s really, really stupid, then that would be an indicator that he ought not say anything.

If he is unsure if what he is about to say is really, really stupid, he could remind himself:

-he recommended that we murder Venuzeualan President Hugo Chavez - that was stupid.

-he falsely stated that Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Florida physician who examined Terri Schiavo and claimed Schiavo would improve under his care, is "a noted Nobel Prize winning neurologist."

-he said, (T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

-he said"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolf Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together."

[Josie]

I feel like Pat Robertson is a huge trouble maker in our society and trying very hard to upset people and insite violence throughout the world with his comments. Maybe it is time that someone started censoring him? If a minister makes any kind of political statement to his church, the irs is bringing action against them to take their tax exempt status away from them. If calling for the assassination of the leader of one country and saying another's health issues are brought upon him by God is not political, I don't know what is. Maybe the irs should look at taking his tax exempt status away and the US government consider what action to take because of his call for the murder of a man. Especially with that man being the leader of a country that is already in great termoil. What is the difference in that and trying to find someone to murder someone else? What is the difference in him and Al Cida (How ever you spell it). Why are we tolerating this in this country?

[Traveler]

I am not defending Pat but I will say that with Pat at least I know where he is coming from. There is no pretending one thing and saying something for the politics of it. Even though I do not agree with him I would rather have his openness than others that say something for the political benefit and then do something very different.

The Traveler

[GRR8]

I dont see any controversy. the only silliness I see is the media making a big deal about what some dude who runs a religious joint on television says. So what. most regular folks like myself dont really give it two sheets to the wind. we know hes a phoney like many of you christians are. full of hot air and hypocrasy.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Josie@Jan 7 2006, 12:39 PM

If a minister makes any kind of political statement to his church, the irs is bringing action against them to take their tax exempt status away from them.

I hate to make an over-the-top response to this, but I have some similar sounding quotes:

"Political parties have nothing to do with religious problems, as long as these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals and ethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with the scheming of political parties." (56)

"Worst of all, however, is the devastation wrought by the misuse of religious conviction for political ends." (57)

"Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other." (58)

The speaker is Adolf Hitler.

If calling for the assassination of the leader of one country and saying another's health issues are brought upon him by God is not political, I don't know what is.

Thank God (and I mean that sincerely and reverently) that the IRS was not allowed to go after the Abolitionists or the Civil Rights activitists. As people of rigorous religious practice, I would think most here would realize that faith that is meaningful will, of necessity, effect our work, our play, our family life, and yes, our politics. In American democracy (democratic republic for you purists) everyone gets a say in the public arena--even right-wing Christians. Even Pat Robertson.

Maybe the irs should look at taking his tax exempt status away and the US government consider what action to take because of his call for the murder of a man.

While the speech was reprehensible, Robertson was not plotting an actual assassination, nor would anyone have taken his words as marching orders. I gotta ask you, don't you value freedom of speech?

[Aristotle]

I don't follow Pat Robertson, and I only hear what other's have to say about him. Therefore, I can't judge him.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Jan 7 2006, 03:56 PM

In American democracy (democratic republic for you purists) everyone gets a say in the public arena--even right-wing Christians.  Even Pat Robertson. 

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Our nation was established as a Republic, not a democracy. And yep, I'm pure Republican. LOL

[Josie]

PC,

I do value freedom of speech very much so in this country. I basically agree with you on what you said. I was referring to the fact that not long ago, the IRS went after the minister of a church because he suggested who his congregation should vote for in a public election. Yet they let someone like this walk away without a word.

To me freedom of speech is one thing, but when a public figure like that calls for the assassination of the leader of a nation, he is playing with fire, and he does not know who is going to take him at his word and go do it. We can disagree with the policies of a nation, or what a leader has said without telling the people to go murder him, even if it is a figure of speech. I think responsibility comes with leadership.

Incidently I also agree with you about our religion or faith spilling over into every aspect of our lives. I think Latter-day Saints understand that as much as any religion in the world. A person true to the faith, has it governing every aspect of everything they do.

[Fiannan]

Snow states of Pat Robertson:

-he said, (T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."[/quote)

And he's wrong in saying that? Being from the left coast of the USA (and having attended a very liberal university) I think he is on solid ground there.

-he said"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolf Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together."

A great documentary ran on one of the educational channels a few years back and was filled with the occult/Nazi connection. Hitler was a New Age Paganist/agnostic who was quite willing to use the Christian religion if it served his ends but ready to stamp it out if it did not. And many of the leaders of the Brown Shirts (i.e. Ehrnst Rohm) and quite a few in upper leadership of the Nazi Party were homosexual. As for satanism and homosexuality going together I am not sure, but on the other points...

Now as for Robertson I think if you are looking for a great book on putting the power of faith into practice I would suggest looking up his book "The Secret Kingdom". He seems to write in a way similar to Neal Maxwell overall. A friend of mine that is LDS and worked on the Robertson presidential campaign knew of at least one LDS bookstore in my state that carried Robertson's books -- wouldn't surprise me since Robertson has been accused of being a closet Mormon on more than one occasion.

[Aristotle]

Snow states of Pat Robertson:

-he said, (T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."[/quote)

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If we digressed to the pre 14th amendment era, there would be a need for another women's movement. The problem is that women with a hidden agenda seized control and used this for their political gain.

[Snow]

Maybe it's just me but I hold Pat Robertson to a different standard than I do genocidal dictators.

While the speech was reprehensible, Robertson was not plotting an actual assassination, nor would anyone have taken his words as marching orders. I gotta ask you, don't you value freedom of speech?

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No one is alledging that he is an actual murderer - just an idiot.

[Snow]

Bold = Fiannan,

Snow states of Pat Robertson:

-he said, (T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."[/quote)

And he's wrong in saying that? Being from the left coast of the USA (and having attended a very liberal university) I think he is on solid ground there.

Firsty I didn't state that of Pat Robertson - that's a quote from Pat Robertson.

Second - if anyone says that the feminist agenda is to promote child murder and witchcraft - then that person is a big a fruitcake as Pat Robertson.

[Winnie G]

I only have one thing to say about Pat Robertson, he is a welcomed visitor at the White House and a confidant to the president.

How scary is that?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jan 7 2006, 10:08 PM

I only have one thing to say about Pat Robertson, he is a welcomed visitor at the White House and a confidant to the president.

How scary is that?

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You tell us. Exactly what advice has Pat Robertson given the President that the President has followed?

[Fiannan]

Second - if anyone says that the feminist agenda is to promote child murder and witchcraft - then that person is a big a fruitcake as Pat Robertson.

If you define abortion as child murder then call me a fruitcake if you would like -- the feminist agenda treats abortion as a sacrament, the cornerstone of the Constitution and it's the feminists who said that you cannot have social equality unless you have reproductive equality (and since women are the ones who get pregnant that means abortion has to exist).

And from my readings most feminists are not into black magic, but are quite positive to goddess worship and WICCA. I have even heard some feminists say that all religions founded by men should be avoided by women -- and what does that leave? I guess even worse is that Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddism and Hinduism were all founded by white men. The horrors!!!

[Snow]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Jan 8 2006, 04:25 AM

Second - if anyone says that the feminist agenda is to promote child murder and witchcraft - then that person is a big a fruitcake as Pat Robertson.

If you define abortion as child murder then call me a fruitcake if you would like -- the feminist agenda treats abortion as a sacrament, the cornerstone of the Constitution and it's the feminists who said that you cannot have social equality unless you have reproductive equality (and since women are the ones who get pregnant that means abortion has to exist).

And from my readings most feminists are not into black magic, but are quite positive to goddess worship and WICCA. I have even heard some feminists say that all religions founded by men should be avoided by women -- and what does that leave? I guess even worse is that Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddism and Hinduism were all founded by white men. The horrors!!!

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You can't take the extreme element and extopolate it to a whole movement.

For example, my mother is a feminist. Hardly ever does she murder me, turn people into frogs, try and tear down the nations economic system and sleep witth biker chicks in gay bars.

[Fiannan]

For example, my mother is a feminist. Hardly ever does she murder me, turn people into frogs, try and tear down the nations economic system and sleep witth biker chicks in gay bars.

"Hardy ever.." ?????

Sorry Snow, couldn't resist.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Josie@Jan 7 2006, 03:26 PM

PC,

      I do value freedom of speech very much so in this country.  I basically agree with you on what you said.  I was referring to the fact that not long ago, the IRS went after the minister of a church because he suggested who his congregation should vote for in a public election.  Yet they let someone like this walk away without a word.

As clarification, I do not believe churches should be restricted from engaging in this type of activity. I'm not suggesting I would lead a church in this way, but I do not want the government to have the power to prevent churches from "speaking the truth to power." Even in the Old Testament, one primary role of the prophets was to warn the king about "thus sayeth the Lord."

To me freedom of speech is one thing, but when a public figure like that calls for the assassination of the leader of a nation, he is playing with fire, and he does not know who is going to take him at his word and go do it.

This hurts me more than it does you (or Pres. Chavez). Robertson is a charismatic leader. People associate him with the likes of me. And what he suggested was beyond foolish. Furthermore, he did not properly distance himself, or recant his comments--even at one point suggesting he was misquoted (he wasn't). So, yes, shame on him. If he does not do some serious self-evaluation, his remarks might relegate him to notoriety, despite many of the positive things he has accomplished.

We can disagree with the policies of a nation, or what a leader has said without telling the people to go murder him, even if it is a figure of speech.  I think responsibility comes with leadership.

I don't disagree. I'm just not certain this was the "yelling fire in a crowded movie theater" scenario. If it was, perhaps the best solution is to prosecute him on that basis, rather than further muzzling people of faith.

[Aristotle]

Schools teach about all religions and the government does not intervene in the school system. Why should it intervene in a church ministry?

[Justlooking]

I didn't respond earlier, because I hadnt been able to see the video of what Pat said. However, even tho I am not crazy about the man, since in my humble opinion Pat is usually out for his own power and his own fortune, this I do know. God still has a covenant with Israel thru Abraham. And the land can not be taken away from them.

Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant [be] not with day and night, [and if] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his seed [to be] rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Some very interesting "coinsidences" have transpired every time Israel has been pressured to give up land. A friend of mine sent me this list.

1. October 30, 1991: The Perfect Storm - As

President George H. W. Bush is opening the Madrid (Spain) Conference to consider "land for peace" in Israel's Middle East role, the "perfect storm" develops in the North Atlantic, creating the largest waves ever recorded in that region. The storm travels 1000 miles from "east to west" instead of the normal "west to east" pattern and crashes into the New England Coast. Thirty-five foot waves crash into the Kennebunkport home of President Bush.

2. August 23, 1992: Hurricane Andrew - When the Madrid Conference moves to Washington DC and the peace talks resume, Hurricane Andrew, the worst natural disaster ever to hit America, comes ashore and produces an estimated $30 billion in damage and leaving 180,000 homeless in Florida.

3. January 16, 1994: Northridge Earthquake - President Bill Clinton meets with Syria's President Hafez el-Assad in Geneva. They talk about a peace agreement with Israel that includes giving up the Golan Heights. Within 24 hours, a powerful 6.9 earthquake rocks Southern California. This quake, centered in Northridge, becomes the second most destructive natural disaster to hit the United States, behind Hurricane Andrew.

4. January 21, 1998: Lewinsky Scandal - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meets with President Clinton at the White House and is coldly received. Clinton and Secretary of State Madeleine Albright refuse to have lunch with him. Shortly afterwards on that day, the Monica Lewinsky scandal breaks into the mass media and begins to occupy a major portion of Clinton's time.

5. September 28, 1998: Hurricane George - As Secretary of State Albright works on the final details of an agreement in which Israel would give up 13 percent of Yesha (Judah and Samaria), Hurricane George slams into the United States Gulf Coast with 110 mph winds and gusts up to 175 mph. The hurricane hits the coast and stalled. On September 28, Clinton meets with Yasser Arafat

and Netanyahu at the White House to finalize this land deal. Later, Arafat addresses the United Nations about declaring an independent Palestinian state

by May 1999, as Hurricane George pounds the Gulf Coast, causing $1 billion in damage. At the exact time that Arafat departs the country, the storm begins to dissipate.

6. October 15-22, 1998: Texas Flooded - On October 15, 1998, Arafat and Netanyahu meet at the Wye River Plantation in Maryland. The talks are scheduled to last five days with the focus on Israel giving up 13 percent of Yesha. The talks are extended and conclude on October 23. On October 17, awesome rains and tornadoes hit southern Texas. The San Antonio area is deluged with rain. The rain and flooding in Texas continue until October 22 and

then subside. The floods ravage 25 percent of Texas and leave over one billion dollars in damage. On October 21, Clinton declares this section of Texas a major disaster area.

7. November 30, 1998: Market Capitalization Evaporates - Arafat comes to Washington again to meet with President Clinton to raise money for a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as the capital. A total of 42 other nations were represented in Washington. All the nations agreed to give Arafat $3 billion in aid. Clinton promised $400 million, and the European nations $1.7 billion. On the same day, the Dow Jones average drops 216 points, and on December 1, the European Market had its third worst day in history. Hundreds of billions of market apitalization were wiped out in the U.S. and Europe.

8. December 12, 1998: Clinton is Impeached - As Clinton lands in the Palestinian-controlled section of Israel to discuss the "land for peace" process, the House of Representatives votes four articles of impeachment against him.

9. May 3, 1999: The Powerful Super Tornado - On the day that Yasser Arafat is scheduled to declare a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as the capital, the most powerful tornado storm system ever to hit the United States sweeps across Oklahoma and Kansas. The winds are clocked at 316 mph the fastest wind speed ever recorded. The declaration is postponed to December 1999 at the request of President Clinton, whose letter to Arafat encourages him in his "aspirations for his own land." He also writes that the Palestinians have a right to "determine their own future on their own land" and that they deserve to "live free, today, tomorrow and forever."

10. Week of October 11: Hurricane, Earthquake and Dow Collapse -

As Jewish settlers in 15 West Bank (Israel) settlements are evicted from the covenant land in Israel, the Dow-Jones financial averages lose 5.7 percent in the worst week since October 1989. On October 15 the Dow lost 266 points, and a hurricane slams into North Carolina. On the next morning, October 16, a magnitude 7.1 earthquake rocks the southwest in the fifth most powerful earthquake in 20th Century. The earthquake was centered in the California desert and did little damage but was felt in three states.

11 August 28, 2005: Hurricane Katrina slams into New Orleans leaving thousands dead and homeless as the last Israelis are evicted from their settlements.

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Justlooking@Jan 9 2006, 09:16 PM

9.  May 3, 1999:  The Powerful Super Tornado - On the day that  Yasser Arafat is scheduled to declare a Palestinian state with  Jerusalem as the capital, the most powerful tornado storm system  ever to hit the United States sweeps across Oklahoma and Kansas.  The winds are clocked at 316 mph the fastest wind speed ever  recorded. 

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Yeah - Yasser Arafat wants to declare a Palestinian state and so God kills 54 people in Texas, Kansas, Tenn. and Oklahoma.

What are we? Idiots?

[Justlooking]

reread the verses ... God still has a covenant with Israel no matter what, and whoever messes with israel will be messed with as well.

Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant [be] not with day and night, [and if] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his seed [to be] rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Justlooking@Jan 11 2006, 04:43 PM

reread the verses ... God still has a covenant with Israel no matter what, and whoever messes with israel will be messed with as well.

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Yeah - right. Yasser Arafat wants to declare a Palestinian state so God kills men, women and children in Kansas.

You do think we are idiots, don't you.

[Justlooking]

Yeah - right. Yasser Arafat wants to declare a Palestinian state so God kills men, women and children in Kansas.

You do think we are idiots, don't you.

Remember, the USA and the UN were pressuring Israel to give up their land. Arafat on his own had no clout except for the suicide bombers.

Either way, now Pat Robertson takes back what he said and appologizes for it. More proof that he is just in it for the $ and the power. Turns out that Israel now wants NOTHING to do with Pat.

Sadly, alot of Christian Preachers sell out from speaking what is in the BIBLE as is in preference to having overflowing collection baskets and the applauses of men.

[Snow]

Remember, the USA and the UN were pressuring Israel to give up their land. Arafat on his own had no clout except for the suicide bombers.

Please explain the goodness of a god who is mad at a Palestian terrorist, a republican administration and a world political body and vents his anger by killing women and children in Kansas...

Nevermind. Now - please explain the thinking process of someone who thinks God is mad at a Palestian terrorist, a republican administration and a world political body and so vents his anger by killing women and children in Kansas...

Unbelievable.

Yeah - so Pat Robertson apologizes and ask for forgiveness...

It's not a matter of forgiveness - it not like he stole your girlfriend.

The issue is that he is an idiot. Forgive him all you want... he is an idiot still.