So what do u all think of this mess, where in cause of BP Oil

[marshac]

The cynic in me has this equation

more oil leak = more jobs

Maybe MoE could pretty that up in mathcad or something

Seriously though, I'm not sure in which fantasy land that G.W. administration battled 'Big Government'- if anything, he expanded the role of government to a frightening level. Also- at what point does the current administration stop getting a free pass by placing blame on prior administrations? 3 years into his term? when he begins his second term? When will he finally have to take ownership of the administrative policies existing under his administration?

Anyone who still believes in the whole right/left (GOP/Dem) nonsense is a fool- it's a false dichotomy. These days it's the interest of the special interests that's being served by government, not the interest of the people supposedly being represented. The fact that people seem to be waking up to this fact is encouraging to me, and frightening to the parties.

[talisyn]

I don't know....people have been complaining about lobbyists and special interest groups at least since my political baby steps way back in the early 80s. It seems reform takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

[Guest]

I don't know....people have been complaining about lobbyists and special interest groups at least since my political baby steps way back in the early 80s. It seems reform takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Reform cannot happen until Americans realize the power of their vote and get educated. That's the great thing that has happened the past decade. Politics has slowly gone mainstream that it's actually getting a lot of facetime on TV. The next step is to get the people to know how to sift through media chatter.

You know, like Hoosierguy here, for example. It is obvious from his comments that he is a political newbie. But, the great thing about it is, he is actually joining discussions. So, the more he does it, the more he learns what is real media and what is media chatter. So, hopefully, by this November, he would have had politically matured a little bit and then exercise that maturity on the ballot box.

When you have a citizenry that is politically aware, it is not as easy for lobbyist and special interest groups to get a good hold on Congress unless such lobby/interest holds sway with a voting majority.

I will give you a perfect example:

Florida SB 318 - stupid bill in Florida that just passed early this year banning certain species of reptiles from the pet trade.

There's a similar law on the US Congress to apply this ban nationwide - HR 2811.

Florida voters are immature. You can gauge this by the idiot laws that pass Florida general elections. For example: law against enclosure of pregnant pigs... voting for a bullet train then having to repeal the law when it became obvious that people voted for it but never thought about the taxes that have to be raised to pay for it... etc. If you are a doctor, do not practice in Florida. Lots of stupid medical laws here.

So, SB 318 passed in Florida even after numerous educational opportunities as well as a joint certification process passed by the FFWCA and the reptile society. I guess people spend more time at the beach than paying attention to what's going on in the Florida congress.

But, HR 2811 hasn't gotten traction on the Congress floor even with PETA and HSUS spending big money on it. This is a testament to the general political maturity of Americans - at least, for now, it is looking like Americans are generally more political mature than Floridians.

Now, this oil spill... getting lots of chatter in the media. There are those who just consume whatever the media brings to them without further thought but there are a lot more of those who read up on oil spills and the like and sift through the media. So, the political posturing of candidates have become obvious. And this hearing is nothing but political posturing. It's rather silly actually. I hit the off button after I heard some senator say they can be a CEO of BP. Idiot statements like that do not belong on a hearing. They belong in cocktail parties attended by mostly drunk people.

[marshac]

I'll agree with you in principle anatess, but unfortunately I feel that if someone only receives their political education from the media these days, they won't be much better off.

The first part of any debate is to establish the ground rules, definitions, etc. Personally, this is where I see a major problem- in our country there seem to be two fundamental views on what government is, and what the role of local, state, and federal government are. We have a pretty good idea about what the founding fathers thought about the roles (besides the constitution, we have things like the federalist papers, etc), and clearly the people of that time held similar ideas- if they hadn't, the US wouldn't exist. Today though, it's clear that the common view over the role and limitations of government has shifted, so we're now stuck in a somewhat tenuous position with some wanting a return to core principles and others wishing to continue the current trend of marginalizing the role of states in comparison to the federal government. Generally speaking, large corporations tend to favor more expansive federal power, so this is generally the view we see presented in the media. We do see commentators that rail against 'big government', but that's because they make money- not because the company actually wants change... so if people get their education from this source, it's going to be slanted.

I would hate to see it happen, but the Constitution does provide a way to change it- if indeed the majority of the population wishes to redefine the relationship between state/federal government, then they can do so by changing the Constitution itself.... unfortunately though many lawmakers are simply ignoring it, or choosing to selectively interpret it. A quick example of this is the practice of presidents making executive orders, or presidential signing statements.

In some ways it's a little exciting to live in these times since many of these issues will be forced into the forefront- California is functionally bankrupt, so something will have to happen- either they will default, or the federal government will "bail them out"- as a citizen of another state that does not provide generous benefits like state-funded maternity leave, I (and I suspect many others) would be absolutely livid if my tax dollars went to pay for their largess. Similarly, the federal government has spent way beyond its means, so some sort of action will be forced upon it as well, especially as entitlement spending increases. We live in exciting, painful, and perilous times. :)

[Just_A_Guy]

Oh, nuts.

We can't blame this on Bush after all.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., recently blamed Bush appointees who “burrowed in” at the Minerals Management Service for the regulatory failures that led to the Deepwater Horizon disaster. But as it turns out, not one of the officials responsible for overseeing the exploded rig was a Bush political appointee.

The Washington Examiner has obtained biographic information on the MMS officials responsible for overseeing BP’s Deepwater Horizon rig at the time it exploded, from the Gulf Region Director to the last inspector to set foot on the rig. Most of these federal employees started with the agency decades ago. Not one was a presidential appointment of George W. Bush, although one longtime MMS employee in question was promoted to his current position during the Bush Administration.

[Dravin]

Oh, nuts.

We can't blame this on Bush after all.

The next step is to see if they were appointed by a Republican, hired while a Republican was in office or vote Republican.

[Just_A_Guy]

The next step is to see if they were appointed by a Republican, hired while a Republican was in office or vote Republican.

Aw, heck, if there's an "R" in their name, that's good enough for me.

[Just_A_Guy]

Federal Courts to Obama: Umm, We're Still Here, You Know.

Yeah, I'm paraphrasing a bit. :)

[marshac]

Federal Courts to Obama: Umm, We're Still Here, You Know.

Yeah, I'm paraphrasing a bit. :)

It really doesn't matter much- the damage has been done. Rigs like that don't sit idle- as a result of the moratorium, they're leaving the gulf and going to places like iceland, brazil, etc. So much for domestic energy- at least in the near term.

[Hemidakota]

Hurricane Alex Disrupts Gulf Oil Spill Response Efforts - NYTimes.com

Map and Estimates of the Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico - Interactive Map - NYTimes.com

Edited June 30, 2010 by Hemidakota

[talisyn]

It really doesn't matter much- the damage has been done. Rigs like that don't sit idle- as a result of the moratorium, they're leaving the gulf and going to places like iceland, brazil, etc. So much for domestic energy- at least in the near term.

Yeah, until there's a huge oil spill in the seas by those countries

Can't do the same thing and reasonably expect different results.

[Moksha]

It really doesn't matter much- the damage has been done. Rigs like that don't sit idle- as a result of the moratorium, they're leaving the gulf and going to places like iceland, brazil, etc. So much for domestic energy- at least in the near term.

It would be great to have more British Petroleum and Dutch Shell oil rigs in the North Sea area.

[Moksha]

We can't blame this on Bush after all.

John Stewart had a great piece on this Republican talking point. The great finger pointers wll blame everyone except Bush.

[Hemidakota]

I wondering how much of this oil will hit inland by the Hurricane.

[Hemidakota]

Someone posted earlier and for the life of me, I cannot find the posting concerning the waters turning to blood but this photo has a chilling factor to it (from a past prophet seeing into the future, this may look like blood):

BP: Gulf oil spill could be stopped this month

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, this can't be good:

BP behind on payments to clean-up workers

I'm betting a bankruptcy filing is imminent.

[marshac]

I'm betting a bankruptcy filing is imminent.

I'll take the other side of that bet. BP makes loads of money, and the spill costs (with the exception of the $20B payment) haven't been THAT much.

[Just_A_Guy]

Oil Exec's Wife Sustains Facial Injuries from Shoebox Bomb

If Limbaugh's rhetoric incited the Oklahoma City bombing, then did Barack H. Obama's rhetoric incite this?

[miztrniceguy]

doomsday. we are all going to die.

Doomsday: How BP Gulf disaster may have triggered a world-killing event - by Terrence Aym - Helium

[marshac]

doomsday. we are all going to die.

meh. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

[miztrniceguy]

true...but by a giant fart?

[Moksha]

true...but by a giant fart?

Depending on whether it was ignited, could determine the answer to T.S. Eliot's question of whether we will end with a bang or a whimper.

[Hemidakota]

X-Prize Challenge Offers $1.4 Million for Revolutionary Oil Cleanup Tech

X-Prize Challenge Offers $1.4 Million for Revolutionary Oil Cleanup Tech | Popular Science