Are You A Liberal?

[Aristotle]

ARE YOU A LIBERAL? - Dennis Prager

You say you are a liberal. Do you believe the following?

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.

3. Murderers should never be put to death.

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.

12. The present high tax rates are good.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other.

Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?

[Outshined]

Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?

None.

[Sugarbay]

Question: Are you a liberal?

Answer: Not on your life.

B)

[Lindy]

I only agree with one of them....but that by no means makes me a liberal.

I am so conservative I make people sick.....lol

[CharlieDesRosiers]

Although the aforementioned "liberal positions" are clearly negatively over-simplified for adequate dramatic effect,.. for the sake of playing along?

Yes. I find that I do agree with several of them.

[Palerider]

This one of the greatest things about the Church I enjoy.....they do not tell us how to vote and they just encourage us too vote....unless a concern with something to be a Moral issue.....and we do have Latter Day Saints on both sides of the aisle........

[Jason]

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color. no

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America. Only if we don't want to fall behind.

3. Murderers should never be put to death. yes

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze. undecided

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.no

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. Depends. If our excuse for invasion was to help the people of Iraq, we had better make a serious military effort in Africa, otherwise we're hypocrits.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools. True. This is the most ridiculous attempt to divert tax dollars for private purposes i've ever heard of.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party. As if Republicans were'nt corrupt. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people. The government should have nothing to do with marriage in the first place.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women. Again, the government should stay out of it altogether.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings. Don't care.

12. The present high tax rates are good. They're high? Compared to which Nation-State?

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad. Moronic question.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent. Probably.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court. The UN is a good force in the world. However, that does not mean that the United States should forfeit it's autonomy. That said, if we wish to lead the world for good, we should submit any persons accused of an International crime to the Hague.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas. Of course it's good.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral. All abortion is bad. Immoral is a judgement call nobody has a right to make.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section. Don't care.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them. Definitely. Or we can go on pretending that Teenagers really don't have sex...

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male. Certainly. Anyone remember Anton LeVey?

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city. I'll give poverty the primary cause of violent crime. The rest is non-sensical.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation. It's irrelevant.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other. True.

[Guest Syble]

Although the aforementioned "liberal positions" are clearly negatively over-simplified for adequate dramatic effect,.. for the sake of playing along?

Yes. I find that I do agree with several of them.

Wow big man, you are sooooo generous to play along.

[prisonchaplain]

Jason' date='Jan 28 2006, 01:53 PM

Prisonchaplain offers his views in ALL CAPS:

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color. no

NO. I THINK IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THAT ASIAN-AMERICANS ACTUALLY HAVE TO SCORE HIGHER THAN WHITES TO GET INTO PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES IN CALIFORNIA, BECAUSE THEY ARE "OVER REPRESENTED."

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America. Only if we don't want to fall behind.

I'M NOT OPPOSED TO TRANSITION PROGRAMS, ESL, ETC. AND, I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE MOST LEGAL AND GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS SHOULD BE TRANSLATED INTO THE LANGUAGES OF ANY IMMIGRANT LANGUAGE GROUP THAT REACHES A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.

QUITE FRANKLY, "ENGLISH-ONLY" IS OFTEN USED BY ANTI-IMMIGRATION GROUPS AND BLATANT RACISTS TO DISCOURAGE NON-WHITE MIGRATION TO OUR COUNTRY.

3. Murderers should never be put to death. yes

I'M TORN BETWEEN THE APPARENT INEQUITY OF OUR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT RATES, AND THE RESPECT FOR LIFE THAT THE DEATH PENALTY DEMONSTRATES. "YOU COMMIT THE ULTIMATE THEFT OF LIFE FROM ANOTHER HUMAN, AND THE ONLY PUNISHMENT THAT RECOGNIZES WHAT WAS TAKEN IS THE DEATH PENALTY." SO, UNDECIDED.

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze. undecided

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.no

ONLY IF THEY WISH TO FORGO ALL GOVERNMENT FUNDING, INCLUDING THOSE FROM STUDENTS WHO RECEIVE GOVERNMENT-BACKED LOANS AND GRANTS.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. Depends. If our excuse for invasion was to help the people of Iraq, we had better make a serious military effort in Africa, otherwise we're hypocrits.

I DO NOT TOTALLY AGREE WITH PART B. WARS ARE WAGED, IN PART, BECAUSE OF OUR OWN NATIONAL INTERESTS. HOWEVER, IN HIND-SIGHT WE'D PROBABLY BE BETTER OFF NOT HAVING GONE INTO IRAQ. HOWEVER, HINDSIGHT IS RATHER IRRELEVANT.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools. True. This is the most ridiculous attempt to divert tax dollars for private purposes i've ever heard of.

FALSE. THE PURPOSE OF PUBLIC FUNDING FOR EDUCATION IS TO EDUCATE CHILDREN, NOT TO MAKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR FAILURE RATES, HAVE LOTS OF MONEY.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party. As if Republicans were'nt corrupt. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

MY REAL PROBLEM WITH THE TEACHER'S UNION IS THAT MEMBERS ARE FORCED TO CONTRIBUTE TO PRO-ABORTION POLITICS, SINCE MOST PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS RUN "CLOSED SHOPS." UNION MEMBERSHIP IS MANDATORY. OTHERWISE, DEMOCRATS, LIKE REPUBLICANS, ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO TAKE $ FROM WHOMEVER WILL GIVE THEM.

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people. The government should have nothing to do with marriage in the first place.

THIS IS WHY CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, AND JEWS OPPOSE SO-CALLED GAY RIGHTS. HOMOSEXUAL PRACTICE IS A BEHAVIOR, NOT A RACE, NOT A GENDER. MOST MAJOR RELIGIONS STRONGLY CONDEMN THE BEHAVIOR. TODAY, IT'S SPECIAL RIGHTS, TOMORROW IT'S OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT SANCTION OF A LIVING RELATIONSHIP MOST CONSIDER IMMORAL, DOWN THE ROAD CHURCHES MAY INDEED BE CHALLENGED TO GIVE UP THEIR MORAL TEACHINGS OR LOSE TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women. Again, the government should stay out of it altogether.

AGAIN, NO SPECIAL RIGHTS SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO ENGAGE IN BEHAVIOR THAT MOST CITIZENS, AND INDEED MOST RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS, CONDEMN AS IMMORAL.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings. Don't care.

THE CASE THAT PROVES MY POINTS THAT HOMOSEXUAL GROUPS, AS THEY CONTINUE TO GAIN SPECIAL RIGHTS AND POLITICAL POWER, WILL EVENTUALLY TURN THEIR GUNS AGAINST RELIGIOUS GROUPS. IN THEIR EYES, IT WILL BE PAY-BACK TIME.

12. The present high tax rates are good. They're high? Compared to which Nation-State?

THEY'RE NOT HIGH? 28% FEDERAL INCOME TAX. 9% STATE SALES TAX. CAR FEES, LICENSE FEES, PROPERTY TAXES, TAXES ON TELEPHONE, CABLE TV, ETC. ETC. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF MUCH LESS THAN HALF OUR INCOME ENDS UP GOING TO TAXES.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad. Moronic question.

SPEECH CODES ARE A VERY REAL ISSUE. CENSORSHIP OF MANY CONSERVATIVE IDEAS IS BECOMING MORE WIDE-SPREAD, IN THE NAME OF "NOT OFFENDING." FURTHERMORE, AT FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY MY KOREAN WIFE WAS ASKED WHY SHE HAD BOTHERED TO TAKE TWO SEMESTERS OF AMERICAN HISTORY. THEY FINALLY ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT SHE HAD TAKEN A "MULTICULTURAL COURSE," BECAUSE SHE STUDIED KOREAN HISTORY IN HER COLLEGE BEFORE SHE CAME HERE.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent. Probably.

NOT! PALESTINIANS ARE PAWNS OF THE SURROUNDING NATIONS, WHO REFUSED TO ABSORB THESE NOMADS, AND LEFT THEM OUT IN NO-MANS LAND, TO CREATE A CRISIS FOR WHICH THEY COULD THEN BLAME ISRAEL.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court. The UN is a good force in the world. However, that does not mean that the United States should forfeit it's autonomy. That said, if we wish to lead the world for good, we should submit any persons accused of an International crime to the Hague.

I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH JASON HERE.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas. Of course it's good.

SURE! SPORTS IS THE EPIDOMY OF CRAZY PEOPLE, ANYWAY. SERIOUSLY, LET THE FREE-MARKET DECIDE THIS ONE.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral. All abortion is bad. Immoral is a judgement call nobody has a right to make.

OH, ME THINKS WE DO HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE THAT CALL, AS A SOCIETY. IF LIFE IS DEFINED AS BEGINNING AT CONCEPTION, THEN ABORTION IS MURDER. WE'RE NOT THERE YET, BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE SOCIETY CAN DECIDE.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section. Don't care.

WE JUST PASSED THIS BAN IN WA STATE. I VOTED AGAINST IT, BUT THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS APPEAR TO BE MINIMAL.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them. Definitely. Or we can go on pretending that Teenagers really don't have sex...

WE KNOW TEENAGERS WILL HAVE SEX. HOWEVER, THE GOAL IS NOT TO PREVENT PREGNANCIES, BUT TO BETTER GUIDE OUR TEENAGERS NOT TO HAVE THE SEX. THERE ARE PLENTY OF NONRELIGIOUS REASONS FOR THIS--AND SOCIETY DOES BEAR THE EXPENSE OF THOSE WHO GO THIS ROUTE. SEE http://www.4parents.gov

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male. Certainly. Anyone remember Anton LeVey?

LET THE INTELLIGENCE AGENTS DO THEIR JOB. THEY KNOW BETTER THAN WE WHO SHOULD BE SEARCHED, AND SOCIAL-ENGINEERING SHOULD NOT PLAY A ROLE IN THEIR DECISION-MAKING.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city. I'll give poverty the primary cause of violent crime. The rest is non-sensical.

LACK OF FATHERS USUALLY CREATES PROVERTY. ADDITIONALLY, DRUG USE AND DELIQUENCY ARE MORE ATTRIBUTED TO FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES THAN POVERTY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation. It's irrelevant.

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMOK, IS NOT IRRELEVENT. IT'S ABSURD THAT 85% OF AMERICANS ARE TOLD THAT THEIR INNOCUOUS GREETINGS OR PARTINGS ARE OFFENSIVE.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other. True.

RIDICULOUS. UNLESS WE ASSUME THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES. DO YOU REALLY SEE NO SUPERIORITY OF GREEK EDUCATION AND CULTURE OVER THE AUSTERITY OF SPARTACUS, FOR AN ANCIENT EXAMPLE?

[Jason]

Chap,

I'll delve deeper on one or two:

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools. True. This is the most ridiculous attempt to divert tax dollars for private purposes i've ever heard of.

FALSE. THE PURPOSE OF PUBLIC FUNDING FOR EDUCATION IS TO EDUCATE CHILDREN, NOT TO MAKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR FAILURE RATES, HAVE LOTS OF MONEY.

Chap, public funding for public schools. You cannot divert public funding from public schools without reducing the quality of public schooling.

What you're proposing here is as if you wanted your share of the road mantainance taxes, so that you could pave a private road through your property. Sure, you've got a decent road on your land, but you've just aggravated the situation by leaving the big potholes in the streets, and at the same time have taken away the money which was used to fill in those potholes.

12. The present high tax rates are good. They're high? Compared to which Nation-State?

THEY'RE NOT HIGH? 28% FEDERAL INCOME TAX. 9% STATE SALES TAX. CAR FEES, LICENSE FEES, PROPERTY TAXES, TAXES ON TELEPHONE, CABLE TV, ETC. ETC. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF MUCH LESS THAN HALF OUR INCOME ENDS UP GOING TO TAXES.

I'd still like to see a comparison chart with other First world countries. Last time I checked, we were well below average on the tax scale.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent. Probably.

NOT! PALESTINIANS ARE PAWNS OF THE SURROUNDING NATIONS, WHO REFUSED TO ABSORB THESE NOMADS, AND LEFT THEM OUT IN NO-MANS LAND, TO CREATE A CRISIS FOR WHICH THEY COULD THEN BLAME ISRAEL.

What? The Palestinians were there all along. It was the Jews who began buying up land and moved in. The surrounding Arab countries wouldn't be so mad if the West didn't give wholesale support to Israel all the time.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city. I'll give poverty the primary cause of violent crime. The rest is non-sensical.

LACK OF FATHERS USUALLY CREATES PROVERTY. ADDITIONALLY, DRUG USE AND DELIQUENCY ARE MORE ATTRIBUTED TO FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES THAN POVERTY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

No. It's lack of adequate income that creats poverty. If women were given equal pay for equal work, we'd significantly reduce the problem.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other. True.

RIDICULOUS. UNLESS WE ASSUME THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES. DO YOU REALLY SEE NO SUPERIORITY OF GREEK EDUCATION AND CULTURE OVER THE AUSTERITY OF SPARTACUS, FOR AN ANCIENT EXAMPLE?

Of course there are no absolutes. That's a myth perpetuated by the various religious cults of the world, and in this country, it's biggest proponent are Christians.

[Dror]

This Dennis Prager guy must be quite a character! This list of "liberal beliefs" grossly twists, misrepresents, and oversimplifies what liberals actually believe. Moreover, who says all liberals believe exactly the same things? Who says all conservatives believe exactly the same things? (Did you know Barbara Bush is pro-choice?)

I claim the titles "liberal" and "progressive" with pride.

Speaking for myself, not necessarily for all liberals, I respond to Prager this way:

ARE YOU A LIBERAL? - Dennis Prager

You say you are a liberal. Do you believe the following?

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.

**No. Rather, we should provide more money for education and to alleviate poverty in order to help people of color meet admissions standards. Also, there should be strict laws against discrimination so the universities, fire departments, etc. do not deny people opportunities based on the color of their skin.

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.

**My mother is an immigrant, and I wish she had taught me her native tongue. I think all American children should be required to take foreign language classes in school, as well as English classes.

3. Murderers should never be put to death.

**Undecided. On the one hand, I find it ironic that so many self-proclaimed "pro-life" people are also in favor of the death penalty, and of going to war for no good reason. On the other hand, if I were a murderer, I may prefer execution to spending the rest of my life in prison!

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.

**Well, we could hardly disarm ourselves. However, so much proliferation was probably unnecessary, expensive, and dangerous.

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.

**I see no problem with ROTC programs.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

**The first Gulf War was necessary to kick Saddam out of Kuwait. The current Gulf War should never have happened. However, since we created such a big mess, it is our responsibility to do what we can to clean it up before leaving.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.

**This is beside the point. Taxpayer money should not be used to support private enterprise. It is also a violation of the First Amendment, forcing taxpayers of one religion to pay for children to be schooled in another religion. Instead, more money should be put into the public schools, so that poor people may receive a better education there.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.

**Irrelevant. Who cares?

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

**We should have universal health care so people shouldn't have to be married to share health care insurance. People in close relationships should be allowed to visit each other in the hospital, without having to be married. People should be allowed to will property to whoever they please, regardless of marital status.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.

**If one person had a child before entering a homosexual relationship, they should be allowed to retain custody of the child if it's the best situation for the child. Otherwise, no, I do not think it's a good idea for homosexual couples to adopt children.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.

**Frankly, this one baffles me. Why shouldn't they use public places or churches for their meetings? It would be decidedly un-liberal to deny them the right to do that. The BSA is a private corporation and can anywhere they want. Again, if some liberal somewhere took that position, it doesn't mean that all, or any, other liberals believe the same thing.

12. The present high tax rates are good.

**You think the tax rates in the US are high? You haven't travelled, have you? Graduated income tax is a good thing. Taxes should be low or nil for people of low income, higher for people who have more.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad.

**Again, who says liberals believe this stuff? Believing American values are good is what liberalism is all about--America was founded to be a liberal nation! One thing that has been a traditional American value from the beginning is the notion that equality is good, and liberals work for equality, among other things. Speech codes are also very un-liberal (do your homework before making these wild assertions, please!).

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.

**Theft is theft, murder is murder, and torture is torture, regardless of who does these things. The State of Israel has a right to exist, but they ought not steal other people's land, or murder to torture people. The statement "the Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent" is an oversimplification.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.

**Err, the United Nations was founded by America and its allies. It can be a moral force for good in the world, and America should absolutely obey international law, as long as it has a say in the making of the law, which it does. America should also honor the treaties it makes. These are basic principles of self-government, honesty, and responsibility. America is not, nor should it be, above the law.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.

**I couldn't care less. (I'm not a sports person.)

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral.

**Some abortions can be labeled immoral. All abortions should not be labeled immoral, as some are justified and appropriate. (See the Church's position on abortion.)

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.

**Smokers should not be allowed to jeopardize everybody else's health by smoking inside a public place. Is it really too much to ask for them to step outside to smoke?

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

**Yes.

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.

**Racial profiling is wrong. Nobody, whether they be young Saudi males or white American grandmothers, should be searched without a warrant and without probable cause. It's immoral, illegal, and unconstitutional.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.

**Oversimplification. Who says it's an either/or choice? Racism, poverty, and a lack of fathers and crisis of values contribute to crime in the inner city (other places, too, btw).

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.

**Why is it so important to somebody to insist on saying "God bless you" at graduation?

23. No culture is morally superior to any other.

**Oversimplification. I think most cultures have both good aspects and bad aspects. We can learn from other people and they can learn from us, from both positive and negative examples. Having said that, there is one culture that is superior to all others--the Celestial culture (aka Zion).

Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?

Dror

[Aristotle]

"All through the last political campaign they were saying, 'Why doesn't the Church tell us how we should vote?' If the Church had done that, we would have a lot of Democrats or Republicans who would have wanted to apostatize. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates. We are told to obey the laws of God and we will have no need to break the laws of the land. When they would ask me who to vote for in the coming election, I would tell them to read Mosiah 29 [in Book of Mormon] and Section 124 of the Doctrine and Covenants, pray about that, and any Latter-day Saint could know who to vote for in any given election. It is just as simple as that." (Harold B. Lee, BYU, 4/19/61)

"When the wicked rule, the people mourn. Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." (Revelation to Prophet Joseph Smith, 1835, DC-134:3)

"However, above all else, strive to support good and conscientious cadidates, of either party, who are aware of the great dangers inherent in Communism, and who are truly dedicated to the Constitution in the tradition of our Founding Fathers. They should also pledge their sincere fealty to our way of liberty--a liberty which aims at the preservation of both personal and property rights. Study the issues, analyze the candidates on these grounds, and then exercise your franchise as free men and women. Never be found guilty of exchanging your birthright for a mess of pottage!" (President David O. McKay, CR-10/62:8)

[Dror]

"All through the last political campaign they were saying, 'Why doesn't the Church tell us how we should vote?' If the Church had done that, we would have a lot of Democrats or Republicans who would have wanted to apostatize. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates. We are told to obey the laws of God and we will have no need to break the laws of the land. When they would ask me who to vote for in the coming election, I would tell them to read Mosiah 29 [in Book of Mormon] and Section 124 of the Doctrine and Covenants, pray about that, and any Latter-day Saint could know who to vote for in any given election. It is just as simple as that." (Harold B. Lee, BYU, 4/19/61)

"When the wicked rule, the people mourn. Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." (Revelation to Prophet Joseph Smith, 1835, DC-134:3)

"However, above all else, strive to support good and conscientious cadidates, of either party, who are aware of the great dangers inherent in Communism, and who are truly dedicated to the Constitution in the tradition of our Founding Fathers. They should also pledge their sincere fealty to our way of liberty--a liberty which aims at the preservation of both personal and property rights. Study the issues, analyze the candidates on these grounds, and then exercise your franchise as free men and women. Never be found guilty of exchanging your birthright for a mess of pottage!" (President David O. McKay, CR-10/62:8)

For once, Aristotle, I agree with everything in your post! :)

While I disagree with much of what you have said in other posts, I appreciate your sincerity and honesty, and that you're willing to share your views with people. Keep it up!

Dror

[Aristotle]

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

___________________________

For once, Aristotle, I agree with everything in your post! :)

While I disagree with much of what you have said in other posts, I appreciate your sincerity and honesty, and that you're willing to share your views with people. Keep it up!

Dror

Thank you, Dror! When you quote the prophets, you can't go wrong. ;-)

[Dror]

I met Cleon Skousen once--nice man.

Just don't understand why you included such an extensive quote of Bro. Skousen regarding communism. First of all, this thread isn't about communism, and nobody here is advocating for communism. Second, Bro. Skousen is neither a prophet nor a Church leader, so his word cannot be taken as authoritative or binding upon the Saints. Not that I necessarily disagree with everything he says, simply that it's ok to disagree with him. But once again, what does this quote have to do with the subject of the thread?

[prisonchaplain]

Chap, public funding for public schools. You cannot divert public funding from public schools without reducing the quality of public schooling.

Sure you can. You send the kids going to crummy public schools to better private ones, and close down the crummy schools. However, you win on this one. The courts are nixing private vouchers--too much of that nasty religious stuff being taught in those better private schools.

I'd still like to see a comparison chart with other First world countries. Last time I checked, we were well below average on the tax scale.

Apples and oranges. Most western countries are socialist. We are not (relatively speaking). 50% is a lot to give up--especially if we see have to provide for our own healthcare, etc.

What? The Palestinians were there all along. It was the Jews who began buying up land and moved in. The surrounding Arab countries wouldn't be so mad if the West didn't give wholesale support to Israel all the time.

Most of the Arab world wants Israel to be whiped off the map. It's kinda hard for the Jews to negotiate with people who do not believe they have a right to exist, and who will train young mothers that if they walk into the middle of an Israeli shopping mall and blow themselves up, they'll go to paradise.

Palestine was never a nation. These nomads could have been assimilated into Jordan, and other surrounding nations. However, they'd rather corral them into the midst of Israel, and blame the "Zionist Entity" for all the Palestinian woes. These poor saps are pawns.

No. It's lack of adequate income that creats poverty. If women were given equal pay for equal work, we'd significantly reduce the problem.

Well, literally, you are correct. However, women don't get = pay because they tend to have babies, and get off the track completely, or settle into a mommy track.

Of course there are no absolutes. That's a myth perpetuated by the various religious cults of the world, and in this country, it's biggest proponent are Christians.

I know. I know. Mao's Cultural Revolution, which probably killed in excess of 50 million, destroyed most religions at gunpoint, and probably ruined many ancient artifacts, or the personality cult of North Korea, or the Khmer Rouge period in Cambodia, or the 30 million killed in Stalin's Soviet Union--these cultures are all just as morally righteous as the communities Mother Theresa created in India, or Mahatma Ghandi for that matter. It's simply absurd, that because of some doctrine of tolerance, you are not willing to say some cultural system clearly work better than others.

[Aristotle]

I met Cleon Skousen once--nice man.

Just don't understand why you included such an extensive quote of Bro. Skousen regarding communism. First of all, this thread isn't about communism, and nobody here is advocating for communism. Second, Bro. Skousen is neither a prophet nor a Church leader, so his word cannot be taken as authoritative or binding upon the Saints. Not that I necessarily disagree with everything he says, simply that it's ok to disagree with him. But once again, what does this quote have to do with the subject of the thread?

Many of the things which have come to pass are the direct result of liberal voters [i.e., legislating immorality]. (Communist Goals 17, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32, 38, 40, 41)

The U.N. has no place within the U.S.; U.N. treaties do not supercede the U.S. Constitution; neither do I support one world government, nor a world court. (Communist Goals 11 & 45.)

Cleon Skousen's Communist Goals are appropriate to include in this post. The history of this information follows:

Communist Goals (1963)

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen...

[Dror]

Aristotle, I think you're a bit confused about what liberalism is. Here's the definition from the dictionary:

1. The state or quality of being liberal.

2. a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. b. often Liberalism The tenets or policies of a Liberal party.

3. An economic theory in favor of laissez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard.

As you can see, liberalism is inherently anti-communist ("autonomy of the individual," "favoring civil and political liberties," "consent of the governed," "protection from arbitrary authority," "free market"). Making the claim that liberals are clearing the path for communism is as offensive to us as it would be offensive to you for us to say that conservatives are clearing the path for fascism.

As far as the U.N. and international law go, neither of those threaten American sovereignty or supercede the Constitution. We have full membership in the U.N. (in fact, we have special status being one of the few nations with a permanent place on the Security Council and veto power), and participate in the making of international laws, U.N. resolutions, and policies. What it amounts to is a bunch of different nations getting together to make agreements about how to keep the peace and address other problems before the international community.

Treaties with other nations are, again, simply agreements we have come to, often to resolve disputes. Things like "we agree not to dump chemicals in the ocean near your waters," and "we agree not to attack you if you don't attack us." If we violate a treaty, we have violated a promise, which is dishonest.

Conservatives in the US have no problem with international law and treaties when they benefit us. Or with the International Court (like when we tried Nazi war criminals). Why should we insist on others obeying the law, but consider ourselves above the law? The only way it's going to work is to work together.

[Aristotle]

Actually, I understand liberalism quite perfectly!

"We should get out of the U.N. and get the U.N. out of the United States."

(An Enemy Hath Done This, Ezra Taft Benson)

"Well-informed constitutionalist Americans know that the United Nations Charter is a multi-nation treaty which, if obeyed by all parties to it, would require member nations to cooperate in socializing their national economics and then to merge into a unified world-wide socialist system. Creation of a world socialist system is the objective of communism. Thus, as created, the United Nations and all its specialized agencies are designed to serve the cause of communism. In many specific ways, the United Nations has promoted the interests of the Soviet Union." (The Dan Smoot Report, 4/8/63)

"The United Nations is not a Christian organization. It is unashamedly Godless. Christian principles have no guiding influence on the majority of the nations whose representatives in the United Nations now sit in judgment...One cannot be precise, but probably the majority of the members of the United Nations are dictatorships having no idea of justice as understood by the Christian nations. Only a civilization which has lost confidence in the Christian code upon which it was built would submit to the moral authority of such a body as the United Nations...Man has created a Godless power to govern the world. Can human folly reach greater depths." (George Winder, Christian Economics, Aug. 6, 1963)

[FrankJL]

I know this is old, but I saw someone reading it and thought I would take a stab at it.

ARE YOU A LIBERAL? - Dennis Prager

You say you are a liberal. No, I'm a libertarian, but most are too close minded to know anything outside the political realm of liberal and conservative. Do you believe the following?

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.

Absolutely not. Why should we allow ourselves to suffer from the soft bigotry of low expectations.

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.

As an education major this one really strikes me. Immersion programs are too sink or swim mentality. It also does not teach children English in a proper manner. Students can learn a play ground style English in a matter of a few weeks or months, but they will not be learning proper English. Also it forces students to not only try to understand the subject being taught, but to try and just learn the language at the same time. This has been proven over time that is normally accomplishes neither of these tasks. ESL and transition programs have shown much more success in schools in CA, AZ, and TX, states with very high ESL groups.

3. Murderers should never be put to death.

I agree (this is perhaps my only point of contention with pure libertarian policy.) However, I do think that something needs to be done to address the seemingly over representation of minorities that receive death verdicts, and I think that conclusive DNA evidence should be required for a death sentence.

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.

No, but then again when we started building our SDI program, we should have finished it. Even if the Soviet Union was dissolved, we still should have finished our SDI program.

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.

A state funded schools should have ROTC programs, private schools should be able to tell the ROTC people to go play in the traffic. I also seen in a previous answer that all schools receive money (even private schools), because students get federal loans, pell grants, etc. That is the students getting the money not the school. The school gets that money as a result of that student attending that school, but the school is not directly getting the money and should not be confined to the whims of the government for their students to receive aid.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

I'm assuming you mean the original war to liberate Kuwait. It was not wrong to liberate Kuwait. It was wrong however to quit once we pushed the Iraqi army out of Kuwait. If we would have pushed all the way through and totally removed him from power, we probably would not be in the current debacle we are in over there.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.

I'm all for school vouchers, as long as they don't go to sectarian schools. Taxpayers should not be funding religious education. If you want to send you kids to a religous school fine, but don't expect your neighbors to pay for it.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.

Does it matter, Republicans are surely not above pandering to their own special interest groups.

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

The government has no business in the relations of two consenting adults of legal age.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.

Again the government has no business in deciding what an appropriate couple is. Perhaps if some of these evangelicals would adopt some children themselves they would have more ground to speak on.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.

This question is nonsensical, and I really fail how its relevant to any current major issue.

12. The present high tax rates are good.

Our tax rates are fairly low in comparison to some other socialized European countries, but are still much higher then they need to be.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad.

I'm a college student and I'm not even sure what "speech codes" you are referring to. Again another nonsensical question.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.

One is nearly a terrorist state, one is a critical ally in the middle east, not even close.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.

The UN is perhaps the most corrupt international organization their is. We give them billions of dollars a year, and yet they have to nerve to call us "stingy". What ingrates.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.

Yes I support Title IX programs.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral.

This was such a loaded statement. I'm pro-choice, and I'll leave that at that.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.

No. Government should not restrict smoking in private businesses. If you don't like the atmosphere, then take you money else where.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

Why not? The abstinence education fad did little to curb teen pregnancy rates. It is interesting to note too that of the top 10 states with the highest per capita teenage pregnancy rates that most are red states.

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.

Yes it is. A few names, Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, need I go on?

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.

To deny that poverty is one of the primary causes of inner city crime is to be oblivious to the world. Or to have lived in the rural world for too long to understand to problems of cites and minorities.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.

School is school, Church is Church, lets not combine the two. I bet you same people would be up in arms and pitchforks if it was "Allah bless you"

23. No culture is morally superior to any other.

Not really, just different ways of doing things, and solving life's problems. Take a sociology 101 class, it might open your eyes some, that is if you eyes and mind are not all ready glued shut to any other way besides your own.

Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?

13 Agree

8 Disagree

2 Nonsensical Questions

Not surprising to me really, those where very blatant partisan questions.

[the Ogre]

ARE YOU A LIBERAL? - Dennis Prager

You say you are a liberal. Do you believe the following?

1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color. -no

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America. -No, but I won't insist their parents learn perfect English.

3. Murderers should never be put to death. -No, in fact I would like to see hangings on the court-house square again (Time to Kill-what a fun movie)

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze. -No!!!

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs. -Silly question, of course no.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. -No, but there were lots of better reasons other than WMD.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools. -Ambivalent, the good private schools will always be out of reach for even the majority of rich people.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party. -No, but it is interesting.

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people. -No, too LDS for this one.

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women. -No, homosexuality does not make one a great parent as it supposedly does for fashion sense and next, I love the Proclamation on the Family way to much.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings. -Maybe, I've been a scout-master and I know the damage scouts can do, but no, scouts should always be able to use the building of the sponsoring organization.

12. The present high tax rates are good. -Nope, too high an dmisapplied.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad. -No to both.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent. -Depends on the individual. Some Palestinians are good and some Israelis are monsters.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court. -NO!!! I however do recognize the value of an eventual world union, but not yet.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas. -No, what would have been better is if the schools had the courage to increase the number of women's sports teams in order to meet Title IX.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral. -No, but the inverse is also not true.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section. -Restaurants should be required by law to completely ban smoking.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them. -No.

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male. -I do agree with this one. Sorry, but racism is always wrong.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city. -Both sets are too simple. This is actually one of my focus areas in school. All four, including lack of educational options, real estate bigotry, institutional bigotry in banking, government (local and federal), and educational testing, religious feudalism, lack of male self-esteem, and long commutes to better paying jobs are also part of the equation.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation. -Wrong maybe, but unconstitutional? I don't think so.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other. -No culture is.

Interesting survey, but again to polemic. Is there one to show the connections between American Liberals and their Conservative counterparts?

[Elphaba]

I agree with you guys. The polemical partisanship that demonizes liberals is so blatant I often wonder how a normal person could fall for it. In another thread, I read:

It has everything to do with destroying western culture, mainly the US, because the libs are control freaks that want everyone else to do what they feel (yes FEEL) is right...They failed to have us fall to the Soviets and the utopia that is communism, so they have moved to propagandizing the youth with this piffle . . . .

I can understand someone wanting to be conservative, and not agreeing with liberal principles. I cannot understand someone throwing out this absurd hyperbole that is so ridiculous I can't imagine anyone, actually believing any of it. "Libs are control freaks"? "Libs want to destroy western culture"? "Libs failed to have us fall to the Soviets and the utopia that is communism"? I mean, seriously. I am a liberal, and this is just absolutely nonsensical rhetoric. Who in there right mind would actually believe normal human beings think this way?

My mother listens so-called "Family Values Radio," and it spouts the same nonsense. And it's truly insulting, because I'm a liberal, and I associate with liberals, and we have never, ever believed anything close to what they accuse us of. They have to demonize us, and sneer at us, I guess because they can't possibly accept that we might just be right about a few things.

No, we just want to destroy western civilization. Please.

Elphaba

[the Ogre]

My mother listens so-called "Family Values Radio," and it spouts the same nonsense. And it's truly insulting, because I'm a liberal, and I associate with liberals, and we have never, ever believed anything close to what they accuse us of. They have to demonize us, and sneer at us, I guess because they can't possibly accept that we might just be right about a few things.

Mostly because it is easier to belittle then to empathize. Belittling also makes one feel superior.

Many people think that what Lehi teaches applies to human interaction. There is certainly opposition in all things, I just do not think people are capable of finding commonality. If there is a shred of disagreement, then the opposite is always wrong.

BTW, Liberals demonize conservatives as well and both demonize moderates. I think the real issue should be demonizing, but what do I know.

[Elphaba]

BTW, Liberals demonize conservatives as well and both demonize moderates. I think the real issue should be demonizing, but what do I know.

I disagree. Percentage wise, I don't believe liberals use nearly as many pejoratives as conservatives do.

However, I would probably be surprised if I were to actually study the issue, though I still think I would find Conservatives are far more sneering than liberals. I'm speaking specifically of the right-wing radio and television, such as Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage.

Nevertheless, I don't think conservatives are out to destroy Western civilization, and I would never say such a silly thing.

Elphaba

[Fiannan]

I prefer this test that was going around the net a few years ago:

If you answer yes to most of these characteristics you might just be a liberal Democrat if you …

Feel that the bombing of Serbia was justified because Serbia was oppressing Muslim citizens but ousting Saddam was wrong even though he ignored UN resolutions as well as being guilty of torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

Believe that being in favour of executing a mass murderer while opposing abortion on demand is hypocritical, but opposing the death penalty but favoring no limits on abortion is not.

You are okay with having a prayer at the beginning of each session of congress and the supreme court, and that isn’t a violation of the constitution but having a prayer before the opening of a high school football game is.

Read a headline “Woman shoots intruder in her home” and you wonder what sentence in jail she deserves.

Believe that a white kid from a single parent, low-income home is less deserving of college admittance than a non-white kid from an affluent background with lower test results.

Would get really uncomfortable if you were at a high school graduation and the female valedictorian gave a speech praising young women who choose to get an education but who also plan on getting married and becoming stay-at-home mothers.

Believe that placing health care in the hands of the same type of bureaucrats that run the welfare department would improve the quality of care in this country.

Believe that actors and journalists are better judges on what’s good for the nation than economists and businesspeople.

That those who question global warming being a factor of human activity are insane no matter what scientific credentials they have, but the hippies who chain themselves to trees are courageous prophets trying to save the world.

You believe that slavery was a western institution and all other civilizations that engaged in it had to be much more humanitarian.

That if a Republican uses a bad word or gesture that indicates severe lack of control and judgement, but if a Democrat does the same thing it shows that they are as human as the rest of us.

That the constitution is a “living” document that must be interpreted to reflect changes in society, decisions from the UN and the EU and needs to be liberally applied in decisions from activist, liberal judges, but if a conservative tries to stick to the boundaries set by the founding fathers then they are dangerous to the rights of the people.

If a public school teacher has a Bible on her desk that is brainwashing her students, but if a teacher reads from the Koran it’s to enlighten students to other cultures.

Dole had no right to talk about his military service in WW2 when running against Clinton in 1996, but Kerry had every right to talk about his military service and make it the foundation of his campaign.

Believe that the “Fairness Doctrine” should be applied against radio stations to force them to carry an equal number of conservative and liberal talk show hosts even if the station is privately owned by a Republican or even if nobody listens to the liberal hosts.

Believe that even though journalists are highly liberal that this doesn’t affect the news they report.

Think donating money to Democrats who pledge to give more taxmoney to welfare is doing a charitable service.

Feel that the believability of a religious leader is directly related to how much of their religion they publicly denounce.

It’s not a violation of tax codes if a church assists a Democratic cause during an election, but it is if a church assists a conservative cause.

Actually believe that rich liberals send their kids to public schools.