Desperate Mother needs HELP

[lindamt]

I am at a loss...We have four kids and after some difficult years with our 21 & 20 year old girls, who have since settled down, we are having wars with our son. When he was 15 he said he didn't want to go to Church and when we said he had to whilst he was under out roof, he ran away to a friends for 4 days. After that we sent him to EFY at BYU and he was a changed boy. All his doubts were gone and he was great. He stayed in the States for 6 mths and lived with my brother and his family and went to school. (We are in Australia) He has been home for 18mths and is in his final year of High School. We have to push him a lot with school: he's a bright boy but lazy as can be and he is not going to do well enough to get into university. He doesn't go out much and is addicted to games on the computer, mostly one called Runescape. This causes 95% of all our problems with his as he wastes his life. We have Safe Eyes on the Comps because he has had a problem in the past with inappropriate conversations with girls and a little pornography. We also get to control his weekly games and tend to only let him on slightly during the week and then on Friday night and Saturdays.

Last weeek we had an arguement with him about his exam results from a very important exam period and he flew off the handle and called his dad something really bad and went to his friends for the whole weekend. Wouldn't come home or answer his phone. His sisters picked him up Sunday afternoon and he came in said a quick sorry and went to his room. All week he has been absolutely unbearable - wouldn't get up for seminary, wouldn't talk to us etc etc. We were very patient and nice, giving him space to get out of the corner he painted himself into. He truanted school one day and just stayed home and went out to a school performance one night after i said, no. Then last night he wants to get on the games and I said no, we aren't his enemy and we have to talk so he says, ok he'll talk. He says he hates all our rules, hates not being trusted, hates being controlled. His dad says what can we do to change it and he says, right on cue, "Don't want to go to seminary and church." I said it was rubbish cause this week hasn't been about the church. He said we don't listen. Now he's been going down hill abit lately and usually when this happens it's sin...not big stuff but "boy stuff" Enough to take the spirit out of his life and have him look to blame the church for lack of freedom. He doesn't go out much and would rather play Runescape. He used to enjoy church dances and firesides as he is a social kid, but the last 6 mths he doesnt like going as he had a bit of a falling out with a girl he liked and now doesn't look forward to doing things. 2 mths ago he had his Pat. Blessing and cried. What on earth can we do? As I said, we have had similar stuff with our girls. The eldest has almost come full circle and the other one, although saying she doesn't have a testimony comes to church as they know it is house rules.

He studied some today so I let his have time on his game tonight but once he got off he got nasty again. When his dad told him to turn a rude TV show off, he got rude so more. He went to a different tv and I lost it abit with him. His dad tells him to get off the TV and he calls him the same as he did last week and i just lost it completely. He has taken our kindness for weakness and thinks he can do as he likes. I was furious with him. We are not bad parents and have done our always what we thought was best. I admit, a bit controlling but not too much. Filters on comps are there to protect him. Our 14 year old has no probs with that and is happy to have it there. We push him because his education is important but I'm out of that one now...if he fails, he fails.

What can we do? I'm sure i have oppositional children...He is 18 in December. Any help is very appreciated. Why is this happening again?

Thanks for reading. Sorry it is so long.

[Suzie]

Linda, why is this happening you wonder? Well, there are so many possibilities. From normal teenage rebellion to medical condition such as Opposition Defiant Disorder (ODD) or Conduct Disorder (CD) (you could make a search in google about these condition in teenagers and see if he meets any of the symptoms). Unfortunately, kids every day are going through many medical conditions without being diagnosed. Of course, it could be that he is just being a rebel...however it is better safe than sorry.

My suggestion would be professional counseling. I know possibly most people will say to talk to the Bishop and even though I think is a great idea so he can support the family spiritually at this time, I believe your son needs psychological intervention individually and the whole family as well.

I believe individually, your son could be assessed for whatever condition he may have or give insight to what is happening to him and why he is behaving the way he does. As family, therapy can help you guys understand what is happening and deal with it in appropriate ways.

Sometimes when a child is in this type of situation they tend to open up to a stranger (psychologist).

Make an appointment with a psychologist for him and see what you can find out about his behavior and the best way you can help your son.

Best wishes,

Suzie

[crazypotato]

He sounds like a normal (but frustrating) teenager who is getting into power struggles with you. I don't think that his behavior indicates that you are bad parents.

If I were a teenager and my parents asked, "What can we do?" I would view them as weak, too. I think he is using church and seminary in a power play with you because he senses that those are the very most important things to you and the things that you have pushed on him the hardest, and then school is the 2nd thing you are pushing on him so he is skipping and not studying. These sound like typical power struggles that a teenager would have with his parents.

I don't know what your solution is, but I think that if he is a smart kid who can't go to university, what is he most interested in? What does he want to do for a career? Maybe find out what his dreams are and focus on him taking more classes in that and getting him excited about something positive, to take some attention off of the power struggles. I don't know.

[UrbanFool]

He's almost 18. Perhaps it's time for him to get a job and see just what his lack of a university education gets him. At that age I had no interest in college, and almost didn't graduate from high school. I moved out of the house and halfway down the state to live in San Francisco. Home computers were pretty new then, and I got hooked on "SpaceQuest" (I know, that dates me.) I'd often play all night and go to work the next day anyway. But I was responsible for myself and the decisions I made.

[applepansy]

Elder Eyring's book "Because He Loved Us First" has helped me with some of the insight you're seeking. I have been listening to it on CD recently (read by Pres. Eyring) and that's why it came to my mind as I read your post.

I have four children. My oldest would have been 32 this year. After troubling and heartbreaking teenage years (drugs, running away, etc) he was starting to turn his life around when he was in a car accident that took his life (no drugs or alcohol were involved in the accident).

My next two boys are 29 and 25. 29yo went on a mission but only stayed 6 months. He came home got a job working the graveyard shift which put him in a crowd of kids who play all night. He took off his garments and is now an alcoholic. My 25yo has a 2yo little boy who he got custody of last Fall and they both live with us. My youngest is a girl, age 22... she's struggling. She just got engaged to be married and the two of them were planning on a temple wedding but now the guy she's engaged to is thinking of going back into the Navy because he's struggling to find a job. If he goes back in the Navy she can't go with him until they are married and they won't be temple ready for at least 6 months to a year. I asked if she was willing to sacrifice for this kid. She said yes. She didn't say what she was willing to sacrifice. I'm praying she won't sacrifice staying close to the Lord.

My youngest three were active other than normal teenage rebellion until they turned 18. They watched their older brother and they suffered because of some of his choices. He stole from them and us more than once. When they turned 18 nothing we said or did made a difference. My daughter is the only one who still tries to stay close to the Lord.

What I learned through all the struggles was confirmed by Pres. Eyring's book. We all have our agency. Heavenly Father gave it to us and its precious. As a parent we cannot nor should we infringe on our children's agency. It's up to us to make sure appropriate consequences happen but that's it, other than to continally pray and do all we can to love our children. Praying with our children and about our children will teach them to depend on the Spirit but it doesn't mean that they will turn 17, they will decide that everything they have been taught doesn't mean anything to them anymore. We all have to be tested in this life. Some tests are harder than others. And that makes it harder on loved ones and parents.

I cannot force my children to believe in Christ. I cannot force my children to go to church. They have to work out their own salvation for themselves. I'll be lucky to get myself to the Celestial Kingdom. Our job is to teach them...then they get to choose. Its very very hard to stand by and let them choose and then watch them suffer the consequences of their choices.

Until your son is legal age you still have some control of consequences. After he's an adult you don't have those choices. All you can do is decide what will and won't happen in your home. You get to set those rules. All households have rules. My adult children have learned that even when its their own apartment there are still rules. :) So now when they move back home they are a little more respectful of our rules. But I still can't force them to go to church. For me kicking my children out of my house for not going to church is not a consequence I'm willing to enforce. My husband and I decided that we will always provide a roof, bed and food.... but that's it. That doesn't mean that the video games or computer are available if the their laundry isn't done, if their rooms smell like garbage dumps or if the dishes they use aren't washed. My husband cut the plug off the TV at one point.

Rule #1: Respect those you live with.

Rule #2: If you use it you clean it.

I bear my testimony to my children and I pray continually that their hearts will be touched. I'm not opposed to the Spirit knocking them on their butts (like Alma the Younger).

I hope that you're able to find the peace the Spirit will bring when you put your children in Heavenly Father's hands. They were His before he loaned them to you afterall.

Best wishes,

applepansy

[Suzie]

Applepansy, I just wanted to say how touched I felt reading your story. It brought tears to my eyes. Love you sister.

[rameumptom]

He's at the age when you have to allow him room to discover his own testimony. If you force him to Church, he will only leave it behind as something negative. That will not help him in the long run. I would make this agreement with him: if he gets A's and B's in all his grades, seminary becomes optional, he can choose to attend or not attend. That way, you meet him halfway (he still attends on Sundays), and he works harder on his school work.

Such an agreement puts the monkey back where it belongs, on his back. He's putting the monkey on your back right now, and it makes you the enemy. You can explain that the good grades are for HIS own good, so he can make a life for himself as an adult. He'll need that regardless of whether he remains in the Church or not. Compromising some, you may find that he returns back to activity on his own. Rather than you forcing him into it, it will be his own choice.

You have to give him room to work his teenage agency. Otherwise he will rebel for the sake of rebellion. But if you make compromises with him, you may find a decent midway for both you and your son. And with that room, he may find his own testimony. However, if you continue using an iron hand in the matter, he will have no room for his own will, and he will rebel for the sake of getting some breathing room. And his rebellion will be against the things most important to you: church and good grades.

[Elgama]

There is a possibility that your not listening. I don't have teenagers yet, but I have helped raise one.

I recommend reading How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, How to Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. As parents we have developed a lot of habits, I do however know if I do the basics in the book my kids respond well, and so do the Youth at church when I have responsibility for them. etc

[lindamt]

Thank you so much for all your replies. I am touched by them. My struggle must seem insignificant next to some. He told one of our girls, the one he gets on with more, who is not strong in the gospel, that when we asked what could be changed he was at a loss what to say, so said church. She reminded him that he has a testimony and he said he didn't. We try to listen but as with all our kids, they rebel against us and how we raised them, but the church becomes the casualty. he doesn't get along with one of his seminary teachers because she has said some very judgemental things about him, so yesterday I said he could do home study for all her classes. He said he's do home study for all, I said no, it was a compromise. He had 41/2 hrs on the game yesterday and my husband things we have to ban all games as it wastes their lives and changes their behaviour. Our youngest is a gameaholic too, and can spend hrs upon hrs on it. We do restrict it during the week but then they OD on Friday and Saturday.

He finishes school in 10 weeks and then it exams. He wants to go to Uni and wants to go to BYU. I'm a HS teacher and I'm sure he is not clinically ODD, but he is emotionally immature and has anger issues.

After my blow up last night, I am sure he is up early, waiting for a decent hour to take off again so he won't go to church. Our eldest went through exactly the same, broke some commandments, was told church or leave, ran away for 4 days, came back and had a few years of struggle, and has come around. He is different though and all of our children say he is angry, ungrateful and disrespectful. He wants his drivers' Lic but can't be bothered to do the necessary driving, would rather make up hrs, he wants University but can't focus enough on school to study. He works mostly to get game time. On the upside he is a happy boy when everything is going smoothly and there is no pressure on him and we are not restricting his computer time. He does his priesthood responsibilities without any trouble and participates positively in class. He CAN be very loving. He quit his job cause he said he didn't like it (3hrs a week). Quit his basketball team because it isn't fun anymore because he's the weakest player (Church team). He is on Roaccutan for acne and I'm wondering if that is somehow affecting his mood. Hard to tell as we have see this behaviour before, just not so bad.

Thanks for listening everyone. Any insight is gratefully accepted.

[Suzie]

Linda, did you read this about Roaccutan?

Accutane / Roaccutane : Welcome to Accutane / Roaccutane Action Group for Adverse Reactions including Suicide, Depression, Mood Swings and Psycological Adverse reactions

Also I made a little search and anger is one of the side effects of that drug.

[lindamt]

Thanks Suzie. This morning I read heaps on anger and Roaccutane. We were well aware of side effects and I have been monitoring him. I definitely think it is exacerbating our problems with him. We have a scheduled Dermatologist appointment tomorrow and I am telling him to take him off it. I don't know if it will help, but I'm not prepared to take the chance that it is making him worse. Thanks again.

[Dravin]

He's at the age when you have to allow him room to discover his own testimony. If you force him to Church, he will only leave it behind as something negative. That will not help him in the long run.

I can only comment about this from the teenager perspective but I'm decently confident that had my parents made an issue of putting their foot down and making me go to Church that I would have ended up resenting not only the Church but them as well. Every child is different but it was interesting to hear other parents comment about how If I was their son that they would have made me go and I can't help thinking, "and it would have backfired spectacularly if your intention was for me to be something other than bitter at you and the Church you forced upon me."

Teens; an adult's will and a child's reasoning, but ultimately they have agency. Deny that and depending on the child, you'll get some nasty results.

P.S. This is not to say parents are wrong to draw lines in the sand and take a firm position. Just make sure you understand some of the potential consequences of doing such and consider if the potential reward is worth it.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Dravin

[crazypotato]

I can only comment about this from the teenager perspective but I'm decently confident that had my parents made an issue of putting their foot down and making me go to Church that I would have ended up resenting not only the Church but them as well. Every child is different but it was interesting to hear other parents comment about how If I was their son that they would have made me go and I can't help thinking, "and it would have backfired spectacularly if your intention was for me to be something other than bitter at you and the Church you forced upon me."

Teens; an adult's will and a child's reasoning, but ultimately they have agency. Deny that and depending on the child, you'll get some nasty results.

P.S. This is not to say parents are wrong to draw lines in the sand and take a firm position. Just make sure you understand some of the potential consequences of doing such and consider if the potential reward is worth it.

I have to say that I don't have teenagers yet, just little kids. But when I was a teenager, I was forced to go to church, so I found ways to get out of going. I was also forced to go to Seminary, so I skipped that class whenever I could. The dad was the enforcer, and my mom was more laid back. However, when my parents found out I was skipping seminary and church, they had no reaction and there was no punishment. So by the time I was in college, I just started going again. I hate to say it because I don't want to offend the OP, but I feel the same was a Dravin. I kind of got a pushy tone out of your OP. I understand the reasoning behind making kids go to church and Seminary, but for older teenagers, I agree that it backfires into a power struggle.

[jayanna]

If he wants to go to the Y he has to graduate from seminary.

He is very angry about something. There was a family in our ward with some of these problems, teens were extremely angery, escaping the real world at every opportunity, turned out they had been abused by an uncle and blamed their parents for not watching out for them.

I'm not saying that is what his problem is, but he is angry at you, at God, for some reason. Maybe he prayed about that girl he liked and it didn't work out, hence a weakened testimony. and I think he needs to see someone, maybe in family services ASAP.

Also you need some time to focus and make sure you are not ignoring your spiritual needs. Make sure you get your scripture study, prayer and temple attendence in. Get a comfort blessing if you need one.

This too shall pass.

Please post when you find out about the drug side effects...I have teens too.

thanks,

[ryanh]

Remember, your children are first The Father's children. He knows what they need more than you do, and He should be the source of your inspiration of how to deal with your son. He has more interest in your son's succes in this life than you do.

Some other resources to consider include:

Our Perfect Example President Henry B. Eyring

Now I give counsel to the parents of a wandering child. The Savior is the perfect example of persisting in love. You remember His words of comfort to the people among the Nephites who had rejected His earlier invitation to come to Him. He spoke to the survivors of the destruction which came after His Crucifixion: “O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.”

The story of the prodigal son gives us all hope. The prodigal remembered home, as will your children. They will feel your love drawing them back to you. Elder Orson F. Whitney, in a general conference of 1929, gave a remarkable promise, which I know is true, to the faithful parents who honor the temple sealing to their children: “Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold.”

Then he goes on to say: “Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.” You can pray for your children, love them, and reach out to them with confidence that Jesus reaches for them with you. When you keep trying, you are doing what Jesus does.

When Our Children Go Astray

Talking with Teens

Reclaiming a Wayward Child

Edited August 3, 2010 by ryanh

[lizzy12]

As a teenager, I just want to point out a few things.

-if you scream at him, or raise your voice, he's going to be deffensive. If hes about to go on the computer ask him quietly and nicley to play a game with the family, uno, monoply ect.

- Don't make him go to church. Instead, keep up with family prayer and family home evening. Find his Patrichael Blessing and set it on top of the computer. Give small hints of the Gospel, but don't make him go to church.

-If he's being a bit on social, i suggest calling one of his friends up and asking him to come over and hang out with your son, cause he's feeling bad. Make sure this friend realizes your intentions.

-Pray for him.

[lindamt]

Thanks for all the replies. We are not pushy at all but have raised our kids to attend activities because people go to the effort to plan them, to attend seminary because that is the council we are given from the prophet and to keep the commandments because it shows that we love Heavenly Father. If that makes us 'pushy' I'm at a loss. We have raised our kids to live the gospel. Yes they seem to be rebelling, but I don't think that means we have been wrong. We have been weak in areas like daily scripture reading. (up and down like many families) same with FHE.

We have a rule, we go together as a family to church and that is what has kept our 21 yr old there long enough to have a change of heart. Perhaps she would have had this anyway, I don't know.

I don't understand why we are struggling so with our kids, but I do know that we are not over the top, and all I wanted was some advice about how to help him settle down. Thanks again.

[Elgama]

Actually I would have found it pushy when I was a teen. I recommend the book I mentioned earlier, fact is if you are weak with prayer and FHE you are demanding one thing whilst setting the example that says church is more important than home and family. Your children see you picking things they have to do but not really taking the prophet seriously when he says best way to retain your kids is FHE.

The Hinckleys didn't force their kids to church this article comes to mind.

LDS.org - Liahona Article - At Home with the Hinckleys

Church magazines: Sister Hinckley, you have said that “you don’t teach a child not to hit by hitting.” 5

Sister Hinckley: When my daughter Jane was a young girl, she said to me one day that she had a friend who was grounded. I said, “Grounded? What does that mean?” We let our children figure things out for themselves. They knew when they were doing wrong, and they would fix it themselves. One of our daughters decided to stay home from church one Sunday. So she stayed home. She got very lonely. Everybody was in church but her, and she just sat on the lawn. She didn’t try that again. She figured it wasn’t any fun. It was lonely.

[ryanh]

Lindamt: I happened to hear an address by Elder Hunter from 1983 that likely is very pertinent to your situation.

Parents’ Concern for Children - October 1983 General Conference