Is Anyone Going To See The Passion Of Christ Movie

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 28 2004, 10:06 AM

...it has to have finess and be used for the purpose of bringing a better understanding and grace to the board.

OKAY?

Okay. Nevermind. I'll pass.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Rodney+Feb 28 2004, 09:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Feb 28 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 28 2004, 10:06 AM

...it has to have finess and be used for the purpose of bringing a better understanding and grace to the board.

OKAY?

Okay. Nevermind. I'll pass.

[Guest bizabra]

I saw it last night. I think it is a bold film, a very Catholic film, full of the bloody images that catholicism fixates on. You know, all those "bleeding heart" images that decorate candles and clocks and other tacky religious iconography. It shows the full horror of torture and death by crucifixion (thankfully, humans are less apt nowadays to use such brutal methods on prisoners and convicts).

It was hard to look at the body of Jesus, the makeup was very good, you could actually see flecks of body fat peeping out of the multitudes of wounds that the flogging produced. I realized after a while that I was becoming numb to it, the first few times he was hit and flogged, I flinched, but by the time the last lash hit his body, I was numb. I imagine that being flailed like that would be exquisitely painful, and to see his body being touched or hit or falling to the ground or even having clothing draped over it made me wince.

I liked the human portrayals. Pilate showed well the no-win situation he faced, all the disciples behaved as you would think they would, the Roman soldiers felt like real people who hated their posting and the people there (the "holy land" has ALWAYS been a place of turbulence and fanaticism) and the women were very sympathetic. Mary was portrayed extremely well, from a POV that mormons seldom think about. How would it be like to bear a child and raise him, knowing all along that he would have to die to fulfill his destiny? I think the actress showed all the emotion that such a mother would feel. Sorrow and horror at his suffering, resignation to his fate, acceptance of his choices, personal grief over losing her child in such a way. Most of my tears were for her, not Jesus, HE knew what he was doing, HE could choose to end it at any time, SHE was helpless and could do nothing but watch and wait.

In no way is this an anti semitic film. It does show the politics and personal vendenttas that are always common to human nature and behavior. The high priests showed diverse reactions, some protesting, some colluding, some meekly standing by, some gloating, some horrifed and appalled. King Herod was a dissolute man, a jewish non-believer if you will, and it showed him as such.

Technically, the film is a tour de force. It has great images, fantastic makeup and costuming, you really feel like you are there with the people of the time (though, I think people would have been dirtier than shown, esp. in the crowd scenes, there is an awful lot of clean white head drapery, I thought they should be dustier, ah well)

The protrayal of Satan was interesting. I thought it was cool that he is shown as being there all along, tempting and inciting. He appeared equally beautiful and malignant, just as you might imagine Lucifer to be. Quite effective, I thought.

As a non-believer, who thinks of this story in the same category as I would a story about Mithras or Isis or the Greek Pantheon, I thought that the christian mythology, particularly the Catholic version, was effectively told and in such a way as to wring every ounce of sympathy and emotion from the audience. In this, Mel is no different than any other filmaker who manipulates his audience with his imagery. He was very good at getting me to feel what HE feels about the crucifixion of Christ, I bought his story, hook line and sinker. Lest you think this is criticism, it is not, I think the film is epic and heroic and a very personal vision that he carried out magnificently.

I think, in the end, you will come away from this movie (remember folks, it IS JUST a movie!) with whatever you bring to it. I don't know how anyone could have a FILM be a turning point for them in their religious perceptions, it is simply ART after all. I think the film operates as a sort of mirror, reflecting back what you expect to see (or not see).

The brutality is not glossed over, it is shoved in your face, it is inescapable. Not a film for children or the faint of heart. Do not go if you have a weak stomach and for gods sake do not take young children or sensitive teenagers to this! I came out of it also thinking that all those folks out there that enjoy seeing torture and death will LOVE this film! Ironically, I think that a subset of humanity might actually be turned on by the violence and gore in this film. It is an irony to me that good honest christians might be sitting side by side with sadists and pervies in the same theater, watching this film for very differnt reasons and with very different reactions. I admit I did leave the film smiling wryly at this thought.

Anyway, a good film, a historic film, a great telling of the central religious myth of Western Civilization, a bold and brave movie made by a devout and talented huamn being. It is NOT a movie "inspired" by god, it is NOT FACT, it is not going to change the world and make it a better place. It is only a movie, after all, and enjoyable on many levels. Some will hate it, some will be titillated by it, some will find it thought-provoking, some will be "entertained", some will find spiritual reawakening, and some also might be horrified at what religious belief can cause man to do to his fellow man. I found it interesting movie making, emotionally manipulative (not a derisive word, IMNSHO) and personally satisfying as a movie-goer. It punched my buttons and I like that in any movie!

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Rodney@Feb 28 2004, 06:49 AM

This phenomenon still amazes me to no end. IT WAS A MOVIE. IT WAS FILMED WITH MEL GIBSON'S DIRECTION, IMAGINATION, POETIC LICENSE AND VISION. THEY WERE ACTORS. THEY WORE COSTUMES AND LOTS OF MAKE-UP. IT WASN'T AN EPISODE OF "SURVIVOR" OR ANY OTHER REALITY SHOW.

Did those of you who saw "The Exorcist" give it the same credence and awe? Probably the same ones who viewed the subject film as a documentary.

I blame Richard Hatch.

BTW, I have not seen the MOVIE, and probably will not, unless I have a sudden urge of masochism. (2 hours of beating, whipping, blood flying, and death, mmmm, mmmmmm, that's were I want to throw away 10 bucks)

Rodney,

It isn't just "A MOVIE"...it's the premise BEHIND the movie. It's the feelings that the script, the special effects, the actors, the costumes, the make-up, etc.... bring to those who are taking "their part" by viewing the work.

I wouldn't know about "The Exorcist"...I never saw it...never wanted to. BECAUSE of the premise behind it.

However, when STAR WARS came out....I couldn't get enough of it. I loved the feelings I had, being outside of myself for a few hours...losing myself in the fantasy.

This (Passion of Christ) movie seems to be based more on realism (I know that not all will agree with the concept of the attonement) and it is that said that it is the realism that is moving/stirring emotions within the hearts and souls of those who take part of viewing the work. Wasn't that the point of Mel Gibson?

So what...IT'S A MOVIE?

AMAZING GRACE is just a song!

Yet it still stirs the hearts and souls of thousands of people who listen to it.

Isn't that what is important?

[Lindy]

Good review and post there Biz! :)

[Maureen]

Thanks bizabra for your well rounded review and opinion about the movie. The more I read diverse reviews the more I want to see it. All I need now is the fortitude.

M.

[Paul Osborne]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 25 2004, 01:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 25 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Feb 25 2004, 06:38 AM

I've heard that the General Authorities are about to supercede the general statement about R movies with another approach, because they aware that there are some R movies that are just fine and the PG-13 movies are worse!

Paul O

What is your source for this inside information? I just don't see it happening.

I just think something might be said because it is a major deal and many of the saints will be left wondering what to do. Let's see what happens. My father made a comment to me that he thinks the brethren will say something.

Paul O

[Paul Osborne]

Originally posted by Snow+Feb 25 2004, 01:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Feb 25 2004, 01:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Feb 25 2004, 06:38 AM

I've heard that the General Authorities are about to supercede the general statement about R movies with another approach, because they aware that there are some R movies that are just fine and the PG-13 movies are worse!

And I have heard that Keith Partridge is dating Marsha Brady.

What's your point?

Oh come on Snow. Don't act so dense. You know full well the point.

Geewiz.

Paul O

[DisRuptive1]

Is it wrong to eat at something like that? I went last night and was munching on some popcorn and sipping my sprite while the woman two seats to my left kept sniffling and stuff.

Also, weren't stakes nailed through his wrists also? And am I wrong to believe that they were supposed to be nude on the cross?

The part that hit me the hardest was when Mary ran out to Jesus and said, "I am here" and then it flashed back to when Jesus was a boy and fell down and she ran to him and said the same thing.

[DisRuptive1]

Oh and is it true that the adulterous that Jesus talked about casting the first stone at was Mary Magdelane (sp?)?

[Winnie G]

Shock value?

I have read books about the time not just Jesus & bible times but the Roman’s they them self’s were violent animals its not so much as a form of death penalty but a in your face warning!

At the end of the crucifixion were the sky goes black and the soldiers freak, when soldiers run to grab the large mallets and brake the legs of those still hanging alive, that was to speed up the possess, once your legs were broken the weight of your body- Lungs and so forth kill you.

Shock value? I think Gibson did his homework.

I hope everyone here, and everywhere, chooses to see this movie

.

Yes I hope so too. Tenderhearted friends I know at church I would say no, but yet I think people see me in that light and I am so grateful I went.

You are right you will.

You will come away humble

You will come away with a new testimony of Christ in your heart.

In Gibson’s movie it went passed the garden to the crucifixion.

In his mind the Garden was just the start of his willingness to take it on himself for us.

bizabra I really likes your review. Well done.

Did you get some of the symbolism?

There was a web site advertised in the theater it has a spot for the symbolism.

I was not sure who the child was in Satins arms. So I looked at the site and it say it is Gibson’s shock value of the anti Christ. Also the snake in the gradin and the stomping on it. The life.com

This morning with it fresh in my mind I turned to my husband and asked him if he got the part about the table Jesus was making.

Mary shrugged it off like “it wont catch on”

The Roman Guard was sitting at one when Jesus was being beaten. I did not know I even saw that till my mind brought it up and I want “Auh Yah OK”

The part that hit me the hardest was when Mary ran out to Jesus and said, "I am here" and then it flashed back to when Jesus was a boy and fell down and she ran to him and said the same thing.

Boy do I hear you, yes I cried for her, as a mother I could not even imagine her feelings.

What is most important and I think what Gibson was trying to bring to us was just the atonement.

It brought the atonement "in your face” and made you feel like you had not seen it in a long time.

If the leaders say don’t go, well to late. I don’t think they will.

They are tired of telling us what to do about things like this, if they had, they would have looked like leaders of a cult who’s members have to hear it from their mouths before doing anything.

A BYU professor loved it. I think all of us who went to see it did their homework first, I know I did.

I am a better member because of it. :)

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Feb 28 2004, 02:47 PM

Oh and is it true that the adulterous that Jesus talked about casting the first stone at was Mary Magdelane (sp?)?

Absolutely not. I'm really surprised that Mel Gibson didn't realize this and portray her as the person she most likely was--a pious Jewish woman.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by lindy9556+Feb 28 2004, 12:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lindy9556 @ Feb 28 2004, 12:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Rodney@Feb 28 2004, 06:49 AM

This phenomenon still amazes me to no end.  IT WAS A MOVIE.  IT WAS FILMED WITH MEL GIBSON'S DIRECTION, IMAGINATION, POETIC LICENSE AND VISION.  THEY WERE ACTORS.  THEY WORE COSTUMES AND LOTS OF MAKE-UP.  IT WASN'T AN EPISODE OF "SURVIVOR" OR ANY OTHER REALITY SHOW. 

Did those of you who saw "The Exorcist" give it the same credence and awe?  Probably the same ones who viewed the subject film as a documentary.

I blame Richard Hatch.

BTW, I have not seen the MOVIE, and probably will not, unless I have a sudden urge of masochism.  (2 hours of beating, whipping, blood flying, and death, mmmm, mmmmmm, that's were I want to throw away 10 bucks)

Rodney,

It isn't just "A MOVIE"...it's the premise BEHIND the movie. It's the feelings that the script, the special effects, the actors, the costumes, the make-up, etc.... bring to those who are taking "their part" by viewing the work.

I wouldn't know about "The Exorcist"...I never saw it...never wanted to. BECAUSE of the premise behind it.

However, when STAR WARS came out....I couldn't get enough of it. I loved the feelings I had, being outside of myself for a few hours...losing myself in the fantasy.

This (Passion of Christ) movie seems to be based more on realism (I know that not all will agree with the concept of the attonement) and it is that said that it is the realism that is moving/stirring emotions within the hearts and souls of those who take part of viewing the work. Wasn't that the point of Mel Gibson?

So what...IT'S A MOVIE?

AMAZING GRACE is just a song!

Yet it still stirs the hearts and souls of thousands of people who listen to it.

Isn't that what is important?

Well said. :)

[Guest Starsky]

Is it wrong to eat at something like that? I went last night and was munching on some popcorn and sipping my sprite while the woman two seats to my left kept sniffling and stuff.

I think it is a personal decision.

Also, weren't stakes nailed through his wrists also? And am I wrong to believe that they were supposed to be nude on the cross?

I don't know if that is biblical...I find no reference.

[Guest bizabra]

(cue Sally Fields moment) "You like me! You really LIKE me!"

No, seriously, thanks for you kind comments on my review, I appreciate that a lot! Glad you got something out of it.

Thanks again! :)

[Franken]

Just hearing everyone talk about the movie makes me really want to see it.

While reading a few of the posts it almost put me into tears about how true the movie is. I think now the only way for me to know truly what your saying is to go see it. I think I might just do that.

[Guest Starsky]

I agree. It has been in hearing from those who have seen it, that I have decided to see it.

[DisRuptive1]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 28 2004, 06:10 PM

Also, weren't stakes nailed through his wrists also? And am I wrong to believe that they were supposed to be nude on the cross?

I don't know if that is biblical...I find no reference.

Neither is the nails in the wrist. That is something that historians had to go to Roman history to figure out. I thought, according to Roman history, that they removed the clothes of the person that was being crucified, since being on the cross was supposed to humilate you just as much as kill you since both, according to the Romans, were just ways of paying the price for breaking the law.

And didn't the Pharisees say that Jesus needed to be crucified because of treason?

[Guest Starsky]

Neither is the nails in the wrist. That is something that historians had to go to Roman history to figure out. I thought, according to Roman history, that they removed the clothes of the person that was being crucified, since being on the cross was supposed to humilate you just as much as kill you since both, according to the Romans, were just ways of paying the price for breaking the law.

Interesting...thanks for the information.

And didn't the Pharisees say that Jesus needed to be crucified because of treason?

I know that one of the biblical stories in the gospel had this in it...and that was probably why the crown of thorns was put on his head...as the 'ruling king of the jews..'

[Guest Starsky]

Here is a reference in Mark where the leaders were trying to set Christ up as treasonist...but He foiled it...so I don't know..

Mark 12:

13 And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why atempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.

17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 29 2004, 03:13 AM

I agree. It has been in hearing from those who have seen it, that I have decided to see it.

Peace

My husband and I went to see The Passion of the Christ last night. You need to see this movie. I sobbed. I couldn't help it. There is symbolism in it that you will understand. There were only 2 things I found that Gibson did not portray as I would have. (Like I could make a stunning movie like this one ) Mary Magdelene was not the woman taken in adultery, and Gibson used ropes on the wrists instead of the additional nails that we know were there. Things two things do not take away from the otherwise accurate portrayal of the atonement.

I left the theater feeling that I wanted to live my own religion better. I feel a renewed effort in daily repentance. When people criticize Mel Gibson for making this movie, (some have accused him of terrorism) I am reminded of this scripture:

D&C 59:21

And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.

[Guest Starsky]

You know it is those things that the Lord wants us to have, that will get the greatest opposition.

In fact the amount of opposition makes me even more sure it is a precious gift from the Lord through Mel Gibson to us....

I can't wait to see it. In fact this is one I may go to a theater to see.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by bizabra@Feb 28 2004, 12:52 PM

I saw it last night. I think it is a bold film, a very Catholic film, full of the bloody images that catholicism fixates on. You know, all those "bleeding heart" images that decorate candles and clocks and other tacky religious iconography. It shows the full horror of torture and death by crucifixion (thankfully, humans are less apt nowadays to use such brutal methods on prisoners and convicts).

It was hard to look at the body of Jesus, the makeup was very good, you could actually see flecks of body fat peeping out of the multitudes of wounds that the flogging produced. I realized after a while that I was becoming numb to it, the first few times he was hit and flogged, I flinched, but by the time the last lash hit his body, I was numb. I imagine that being flailed like that would be exquisitely painful, and to see his body being touched or hit or falling to the ground or even having clothing draped over it made me wince.

I liked the human portrayals. Pilate showed well the no-win situation he faced, all the disciples behaved as you would think they would, the Roman soldiers felt like real people who hated their posting and the people there (the "holy land" has ALWAYS been a place of turbulence and fanaticism) and the women were very sympathetic. Mary was portrayed extremely well, from a POV that mormons seldom think about. How would it be like to bear a child and raise him, knowing all along that he would have to die to fulfill his destiny? I think the actress showed all the emotion that such a mother would feel. Sorrow and horror at his suffering, resignation to his fate, acceptance of his choices, personal grief over losing her child in such a way. Most of my tears were for her, not Jesus, HE knew what he was doing, HE could choose to end it at any time, SHE was helpless and could do nothing but watch and wait.

In no way is this an anti semitic film. It does show the politics and personal vendenttas that are always common to human nature and behavior. The high priests showed diverse reactions, some protesting, some colluding, some meekly standing by, some gloating, some horrifed and appalled. King Herod was a dissolute man, a jewish non-believer if you will, and it showed him as such.

Technically, the film is a tour de force. It has great images, fantastic makeup and costuming, you really feel like you are there with the people of the time (though, I think people would have been dirtier than shown, esp. in the crowd scenes, there is an awful lot of clean white head drapery, I thought they should be dustier, ah well)

The protrayal of Satan was interesting. I thought it was cool that he is shown as being there all along, tempting and inciting. He appeared equally beautiful and malignant, just as you might imagine Lucifer to be. Quite effective, I thought.

As a non-believer, who thinks of this story in the same category as I would a story about Mithras or Isis or the Greek Pantheon, I thought that the christian mythology, particularly the Catholic version, was effectively told and in such a way as to wring every ounce of sympathy and emotion from the audience. In this, Mel is no different than any other filmaker who manipulates his audience with his imagery. He was very good at getting me to feel what HE feels about the crucifixion of Christ, I bought his story, hook line and sinker. Lest you think this is criticism, it is not, I think the film is epic and heroic and a very personal vision that he carried out magnificently.

I think, in the end, you will come away from this movie (remember folks, it IS JUST a movie!) with whatever you bring to it. I don't know how anyone could have a FILM be a turning point for them in their religious perceptions, it is simply ART after all. I think the film operates as a sort of mirror, reflecting back what you expect to see (or not see).

The brutality is not glossed over, it is shoved in your face, it is inescapable. Not a film for children or the faint of heart. Do not go if you have a weak stomach and for gods sake do not take young children or sensitive teenagers to this! I came out of it also thinking that all those folks out there that enjoy seeing torture and death will LOVE this film! Ironically, I think that a subset of humanity might actually be turned on by the violence and gore in this film. It is an irony to me that good honest christians might be sitting side by side with sadists and pervies in the same theater, watching this film for very differnt reasons and with very different reactions. I admit I did leave the film smiling wryly at this thought.

Anyway, a good film, a historic film, a great telling of the central religious myth of Western Civilization, a bold and brave movie made by a devout and talented huamn being. It is NOT a movie "inspired" by god, it is NOT FACT, it is not going to change the world and make it a better place. It is only a movie, after all, and enjoyable on many levels. Some will hate it, some will be titillated by it, some will find it thought-provoking, some will be "entertained", some will find spiritual reawakening, and some also might be horrified at what religious belief can cause man to do to his fellow man. I found it interesting movie making, emotionally manipulative (not a derisive word, IMNSHO) and personally satisfying as a movie-goer. It punched my buttons and I like that in any movie!

Biz

Your review of this movie is the best one I have read. You write well.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Rodney+Feb 28 2004, 09:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Feb 28 2004, 09:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Feb 28 2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by -Rodney@Feb 28 2004, 08:35 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 28 2004, 09:26 AM

Oh, well of course. And that's makes so very much difference, doesn't it?

It certainly does. It makes life so much more picturesque and colorful....

And it also helps those who only relate by comparisons...you know the type....

Well, let's just say I best not mention the colorful and picturesque comparison I would make of you.

I also don't think it wise to send an unarmed defenseless person onto a battlefield.

Why would you mention a battle field....it seems so incongruous.

Simple. You have the power (weapons) to ban or moderate me. I have nothing. You can use whatever colorful comparisons you like on me. You think maybe I can? Yeah, sure. I may not be the brightest bulb in the pack, but neither am I the dimmest.

Believe it or not, I have edited, and even deleted, other moderator's posts. So take comfort in the knowledge that we are all under the exam light.

[Lindy]

Peace,Feb 29 2004, 05:09 PM

those things that the Lord wants us to have, that will get the greatest opposition.

Peace~ That is like a light going off in my head!

In fact the amount of opposition makes me even more sure it is a precious gift from the Lord

Another light! I wondered for the longest time why I was so adament about not giving up my faith in the church with so much pressure and opposition in my life.

You gave me a couple of things I can carry with me thru my ever day life.... :)

Thank you .....again!