Is God Calling You To Spiritual Leadership?

[prisonchaplain]

Another teaching outline for your reading pleasure...brought to you by -- (thought it would be nice to show you a video clip of me in action. ).

FIFTEEN TESTS FOR LEADERS

Introduction:

Overseer is a pastor, reverend, minister, chaplain, or shepherd.

A deacon is a person dedicated to servant-leadership. They help with practical ministries of the church–and yet are esteemed as spiritual leaders.

Scripture: 1 Timothy 3:1-10:

1Tim.3

[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

[7] Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[8] Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

[9] Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

[10] And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

Proposition:

We should understand the standards to which those in positions of spiritual authority must live by.

By learning these characteristics we can gain an understanding of how God would have all of us to live.

Interrogative: What are the standards to which those in positions of spiritual authority must live by?

Transition: Leaders should lead by example.

I. They should be ABOVE REPROACH

A. Spiritual leaders should be without blame.

B. Of course all have sinned, and nobody should be quick to judge.

C. Yet, if one is continually being blamed for problems that are truly sinful, before he seeks ministry he needs to get victory over his temptations!

II. They should be THE HUSBAND OF BUT ONE WIFE

A. Different denominations have interpreted this verse in different ways.

1. In the Catholic church the priest cannot be married at all.

2. Some churches insist that a pastor must be married, based on this verse.

3. Some argue that this verse only refers to polygamy, and say it is OK for those who have been divorced and remarried to serve as pastors.

4. Others say that those who divorce and remarry should not serve as pastors because of this verse.

B. Surely, those who are spiritual leaders must strive to have healthy loving marriage relationships with their spouses.

III. They should be TEMPERATE

A. Temperance is very similar to moderation.

B. People will argue over whether or not Christians should drink, smoke, gamble or even dance.

C. Surely spiritual leaders should not over-indulge in any such activities.

D. Those who struggle with alcoholism, or behavioral addictions should get victory over those struggles before they seek to serve as spiritual leaders.

IV. They should BE SELF-CONTROLLED

A. Those with short tempers need to gain victory before they apply for ministry.

B. Those who over-eat, who are lazy, or who are impulsive need to gain mastery over their lives before they would seek to guide the lives of others.

V. They should be RESPECTABLE

A. Do you have habits or behaviors which you consider personal, but which annoy others?

B. Sometimes we must give up freedom in order to serve as leaders.

C. Example: Drinking.

1. May or may not be sinful.

2. However, I gave it up, because people inside and outside of the church generally do not respect religious leaders who drink.

VI. They should be HOSPITABLE

A. A pastor once said, “Ministry would be all right if it were not for the people.”

B. If you do not like people, you should not seek to lead.

C. We need to love people and come to the place where we take pleasure in showing them an enjoyable time.

VII. They should be ABLE TO TEACH

A. One does not have to be a great speaker to be able to teach.

B. Both Moses and Paul were poor speakers.

C. However, you should be able to communicate clearly what Jesus wants of people–both by your speech and the way you live.

VIII. They should be NOT GIVEN TO DRUNKENNESS.

A. People argue about whether it is okay for Christians to drink.

B. Surely spiritual leaders should not drink to the point of embarrassment, intoxication, or unconsciousness.

IX. They should be NOT VIOLENT, BUT GENTLE.

A. If you can turn your fighting spirit against sin and the

Devil you can be a great warrior for Jesus.

B. If you insist on turning your anger against people, the Bible says you are not qualified for ministry.

C. How can you say you love God whom you cannot see, if you fail to love people, whom you can see? (1 John 4:20)

X. They should be NOT QUARRELSOME

A. There are times when we must “fight” for what is right.

B. However, some people are always looking for fights.

C. The Bible tells us that as much as possible, we ought to live peaceably with one another. (Romans 12:18)

XI. They should be NOT A LOVER OF MONEY

A. Yes, God promises blessings to those who serve him.

B. Yes, prosperity is there for those who are faithful to God–particularly in their tithes and offerings.

C. However, the blessings of God can take many forms.

1. Perhaps rather than a second or third late-model car, God might bless you by calling your child to be a missionary.

2. Perhaps rather than a promotion, God might call you to a less demanding job, so you can spend more time with your family, which may desperately need your spiritual leadership.

D. The important balance to the prosperity vs. not loving money teachings in the Bible is Matthew 6:33.

1. Seek first God’s kingdom.

2. He’ll get you whatever you truly need.

XII. They should be MANAGE THEIR OWN FAMILIES WELL AND SEE THAT THEIR CHILDREN OBEY THEM WITH PROPER RESPECT

A. People have different styles of parenting. Some are very strict and others are more relaxed.

B. What is important is that you take the time to train your children.

C. Sometimes your children will resist instruction. This is when you are the mean, old-fashioned father. This is when your child might say, “I hate you!”

D. A real father will lead his children, rather than merely befriending them.

E. If you are too busy to train your children you are too busy to minister to others in the kingdom of God.

XIII. They should NOT BE A RECENT CONVERT

A. I’d prefer a young Christian adult to an old Christian baby.

1. I’d be happy to work with one who’s been a Christian for six months, but has proven stable, hungry, and who has shown continual spiritual growth.

2. I would hesitate to work with someone who’s been in the church 20 years, but who is lukewarm, easy to offend, and who is spiritually an infant.

B. Having said that, if God calls you to leadership, do not be in a hurry.

1. God has time.

2. He will make it work.

3. Let him prepare the way for you.

XIV. They should be OF GOOD REPUTATION WITH OUTSIDERS.

A. Sometimes we Christians are naive.

1. Because someone is a brother in Christ, we do not want to be judgmental.

2. We turn a blind eye to obvious problems in people’s lives.

B. However, a Christian leader should be known in the community as someone of strong moral character.

XV. They should be HOLDERS OF THE DEEP TRUTHS OF THE FAITH WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE

A. Christian leaders should know the beliefs of the church or denomination they belong to.

B. They should teach the truths of their fellowship without hesitation–and with enthusiasm.

C. As an example, I am ordained by the Assemblies of God.

1. My church believes in the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and in speaking in tongues.

2. Because we are in a chapel setting, with brothers from many different churches, I do not make an issue of this teaching very often.

3. However, if asked, I will gladly explain and defend my church’s belief.

4. In fact, I have on a few occasions offered a special teaching on this issue, by request.

CONCLUSIONS

1. If you believe God is calling you into spiritual leadership, these are the characteristics you need to develop.

2. Examine yourself, and ask God to help you become qualified for the high calling.

3. The Bible warns us about false teachers.

4. Never accuse someone because they rub you the wrong way, ask for too much money, or because you just do not like them.

5. However, if someone is truly a false teacher, these tests will demonstrate where they are wrong.

6. Remember too, that most of the time, when spiritual leaders are weak in an area, it means they simply need to pray through and get victory.

5. It’s only when a leader is unteachable, unrepentant, and hostile towards the Truth, that they should be treated as wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[Maureen]

...If you believe God is calling you into spiritual leadership, these are the characteristics you need to develop....

I definitely believe that a job in a spiritual/religious ministry is a calling.

When I was in grade 8 my Lutheran church hired a new pastor. He was in his early 30’s, married with 2 small girls. He was a very active person, liked to hunt and canoe, etc. The youth were extremely fortunate when he came because he got us all involved in many activities. He would take our confirmation class on outings. He would teach us teamwork and made it fun. The Hi-League group was set up to do an activity on Friday nights followed by a bible study afterwards. He also took us camping several times (saw Grey Owl’s cabin) and taught us to canoe. (He also made the best oatmeal without any milk – we Canadians normally like our oatmeal with milk, just in case you didn’t know). When I was in grade 9, the western Canadian Lutheran churches gathered together for a convention called “Grace Day by Day”. It was great, an experience I will never forget. This pastor was called.

In my later teens I used to hang out with Pentecostals . The one church I attended (mostly youth activities) had a pastor whose brothers (him included) seemed to have a family tradition of serving in a “ministry” of some sort. IMO, it was a “tradition” because the pastor of this church I attended was NOT called. I can’t imagine why he thought he should be a pastor, because he lacked many of the characteristics mentioned above, like self-control and he did his share quarrelling. He also lacked a sense of humour, which I think should be added to that list. Now this pastor’s brother who had been a missionary in South Africa was definitely called to serve. He was a wonderful man, kind hearted, a good father and husband. The youth pastor of this church was also a great guy with a good heart and a wonderful sense of humour - he was called.

In the early years of my marriage I attended a different Pentecostal church that had a great pastor (one of a kind). He had Bible Studies on Wednesday evenings; they were a joy to attend, as well as very interesting. He was the “teaching” type of pastor (as opposed to the preaching type) and he was very knowledgeable and thoughtful in his teaching style – he was definitely called.

M.

[Red]

Another teaching outline for your reading pleasure...brought to you by -- (thought it would be nice to show you a video clip of me in action. ).

FIFTEEN TESTS FOR LEADERS

Introduction:

Overseer is a pastor, reverend, minister, chaplain, or shepherd.

A deacon is a person dedicated to servant-leadership. They help with practical ministries of the church–and yet are esteemed as spiritual leaders.

Scripture: 1 Timothy 3:1-10:

1Tim.3

[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

[7] Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[8] Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

[9] Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

[10] And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

....

Thanks for posting that! I defiunitely feel called and am heading that direction, so I'll need all the advice I can get.

The biggest test for me will be people. I have the gift of encouragement and I use it...with my friends and complete strangers, but people who annoy me?... Working at a resturant I learned how to "deal" with people, but I'll have to grow beyond that I'm sure.

Now this may be more apprpropriate for another topic thread, but I have a question for any Mormon: Did the early LDS leadership live up to the Biblical standard? Don't take this as a cheap-shot, but I think it ought to be a valid concern for any Mormon.

[BenRaines]

I do not understand the question. What Biblical Standard? Is there a standard definition of Biblical Standard?

No offense taken and hopefully none given.

Ben

[Palerider]

I think and believe the early church leadership did stack up and the leadership today as well....

[Serg]

I totally agree with you and ah! I hope the members of this Church(WE all) always discern how God calls us, and not wait UNTIL someone calls us to FEEL the calling and PREPARE for that time....

O Lord, how well is to serve you! And how free do i feel when Im being your slave!

[Traveler]

What are we exploring here? Should the qualifications for service be any different than qualifications for salvation? Should not the same things that make a Christian qualify someone to be called?

In my mind, a calling from G-d is not a popularity contest with the world. Pardon my question here but I do not see any of the "charms" being discussed as being all that important to G-d's work. From what I understand of those the represent G-d to the world; the character needed is based around "Love", "Compassion", and a willingness to sacrifice self - which BTW are also characteristics of G-d. Personally I see no difference in preparing for “a calling” from G-d than I see in preparing to live eternally with him.

The Traveler

[BenRaines]

In LDS terms a call to service by the spirit is not necessarily a calling in the church. We should act often, as moved upon by the Holy Ghost. That is to provide service as well as preach the gospel.

I also feel that there are many non LDS that have felt a call to serve their fellowman in a service to the Lord. Their callings are true and just. I also believe that there are those in "The Ministry" that it is a great place for someone with charisma to bring dollars to their pockets nad not necessarily a calling from the Lord.

[prisonchaplain]

What are we exploring here? Should the qualifications for service be any different than qualifications for salvation? Should not the same things that make a Christian qualify someone to be called?

No. Those in spiritual leadership are held to a higher standard. In 1 Timothy 4:12, 15 Paul tells Timothy, "...be thou an example of the believers, in word, in coversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. ... that thy profiting may appear to all." So, church leaders, whether you call them bishops and councilman, or deacons and pastors, are held to a higher example. Basically, they are expected to set the pace for the members to follow.

In my mind, a calling from G-d is not a popularity contest with the world. Pardon my question here but I do not see any of the "charms" being discussed as being all that important to G-d's work. From what I understand of those the represent G-d to the world; the character needed is based around "Love", "Compassion", and a willingness to sacrifice self - which BTW are also characteristics of G-d. Personally I see no difference in preparing for “a calling” from G-d than I see in preparing to live eternally with him.

The Traveler

I guess I'm confused about what "charms" you speak of. The lesson you are referring to is based upon Paul's letter to Timothy.

[Maureen]

...So, church leaders, whether you call them bishops and councilman, or deacons and pastors, are held to a higher example. Basically, they are expected to set the pace for the members to follow.

To put this in LDS perspective, I would say in LDS church structure all leaders from the President to the Bishops (maybe even the counselors) would be held to a higher standard, then the regular member, since they lead the Church. I’m not going to pretend I under the whole structure, like on the Ward or Stake level but for the most part if you are a regular member with just a regular calling then you wouldn’t be considered a “higher leader” of the Church. Just me 2 cents.

M.

[Traveler]

<div class='quotemain'>

...So, church leaders, whether you call them bishops and councilman, or deacons and pastors, are held to a higher example. Basically, they are expected to set the pace for the members to follow.

To put this in LDS perspective, I would say in LDS church structure all leaders from the President to the Bishops (maybe even the counselors) would be held to a higher standard, then the regular member, since they lead the Church. I’m not going to pretend I under the whole structure, like on the Ward or Stake level but for the most part if you are a regular member with just a regular calling then you wouldn’t be considered a “higher leader” of the Church. Just me 2 cents.

M.

From time to time there are decisions (among LDS) concerning the greatest and most noble calls. Usually the talk is that no calling is greater than any other - like the parts of a body are part of one body and the eyes to not think themselves greater than the hands and so forth.

Personally I am very much against what is normally known as "Leadership" because it tends to rank one kind of a person above another. I believe Jesus said that the servant is the most noble in G-d’s eyes – not the leader. I think of all things a person can do the greatest of all is a teacher of children.

I love the LDS concept of calling and church organization where persons are called for a time then released and others are called. One of the greatest sacrament meeting talks (sermons) I have heard was from a former Stake President (The LDS high priest over several wards (congregations)) that was released and called as the assistant nursery leader (teacher of 2 to 3 years olds in a ward). In tears he expressed that working with the children was the greatest spiritual experience of his life.

This may sound strange to our non-LDS friends when they learn that we believe we will one day serve in the calling of G-d but in LDS circles, aspiring to a calling is not considered a good thing at all. In relationship to this idea it is often said that anyone that aspires to any calling – deserves it. Often I have expressed my opinion when asked about someone serving in a bishopric for example – I have said that there is not anyone serving in a bishopric that can do an poor enough job for me to want to replace them.

I know there are great blessing in service and callings – and I will cheerfully serve in any calling for which I am asked – BUT I will much more cheerfully support anyone else that is called – especially to what is known as a leadership calling.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I thought I would add just one more thought on LDS callings. An LDS prophet (president) once said that there is no success on earth that can compensate for failure in the home. In truth the greatest calling is not bishop or prophet but the call of Father or Mother (husband or wife) and nothing that any can do is more important than to be a parent. The LDS organization and structure is upside down in that every person in the LDS church – especially those that are called to any office are given direct responsibilities to support and sustain the family and this includes the President.

It is our doctrine that only the family organization of this world will continue into the next world – all other organizations experienced in mortal life will cease. LDS are taught that being a parent is the closest thing to G-dhood – not bishop, not apostle, not president. It is all about family.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

From time to time there are decisions (among LDS) concerning the greatest and most noble calls. Usually the talk is that no calling is greater than any other - like the parts of a body are part of one body and the eyes to not think themselves greater than the hands and so forth.

Personally I am very much against what is normally known as "Leadership" because it tends to rank one kind of a person above another. I believe Jesus said that the servant is the most noble in G-d’s eyes – not the leader. I think of all things a person can do the greatest of all is a teacher of children.

I love the LDS concept of calling and church organization where persons are called for a time then released and others are called. One of the greatest sacrament meeting talks (sermons) I have heard was from a former Stake President (The LDS high priest over several wards (congregations)) that was released and called as the assistant nursery leader (teacher of 2 to 3 years olds in a ward). In tears he expressed that working with the children was the greatest spiritual experience of his life.

This may sound strange to our non-LDS friends when they learn that we believe we will one day serve in the calling of G-d but in LDS circles, aspiring to a calling is not considered a good thing at all. In relationship to this idea it is often said that anyone that aspires to any calling – deserves it. Often I have expressed my opinion when asked about someone serving in a bishopric for example – I have said that there is not anyone serving in a bishopric that can do an poor enough job for me to want to replace them.

I know there are great blessing in service and callings – and I will cheerfully serve in any calling for which I am asked – BUT I will much more cheerfully support anyone else that is called – especially to what is known as a leadership calling.

The Traveler

If I'm reading this correctly. your real issue is with power-seeking, title-seeking, and the like. Perhaps one of the prerequisites of leadership ought to be humility. Nevertheless, some people are better at childcare and education, while others excel at leadership. The proper response is that people should serve where God has gifted them. That leaders are held to higher moral/ethical/spiritual standards is a reality the Bible recognizes. Such ought not to be a source of pride. Jesus did indeed call upon leaders to "grab a towel" and wash some feet.

IMHO, some of the best leaders are those who stumble into the positions. They help out and help out, and eventually find themselves out front, with everyone else in line. They say, "I never sought this...never envisioned it, but here I am."

[Guest MrsS]

If I'm reading this correctly. your real issue is with power-seeking, title-seeking, and the like. Perhaps one of the prerequisites of leadership ought to be humility. Nevertheless, some people are better at childcare and education, while others excel at leadership. The proper response is that people should serve where God has gifted them. That leaders are held to higher moral/ethical/spiritual standards is a reality the Bible recognizes. Such ought not to be a source of pride. Jesus did indeed call upon leaders to "grab a towel" and wash some feet.

We have a saying in the Church: God does not always call the qualified, but He always qualifies those He calls.

It has been my experience that when a person doesn't seem capable of handling a calling that perhaps Heavenly Father has called this person to teach him that what he lacks. Be it humility, or to banish the pride and greed from him.

As for prerequisites for leadership within the LDS church ~ in my own opinion I would say that all Heavenly Father requires of us is Faith.

When I was called to Primary ~ I was in no way ready to be around little children. I just did not have the physical energy or the patience. I meekly said no ~ I was not ready or prepared for such an undertaking.

Two months later I was called as Branch Librarian. This I accepted ~ this I knew I could do and not mess up.

Two months later I was called to Primary again. This time though I was more candid with the councilor who was interviewing me. I asked lots of questions regarding what the "duties" were. I then accepted. For 4 glorious years I was Primary 1st Councilor. Through this calling Heavenly Father taught me patience, endurance, humor, humility and fairness. Through those humble (and sometimes not so humble) children, I discovered unconditional love again.

Heavenly Father called me as Branch Librarian to teach me that I could handle anything that was put in front of me, so that I could gain confidence and self-esteem. Then He called me once again to the Primary.

[pushka]

Ben said: 'I also believe that there are those in "The Ministry" that it is a great place for someone with charisma to bring dollars to their pockets nad not necessarily a calling from the Lord.'

I agree with him, and wondered whether Prison Chaplain was familiar with the TV Evangelist Oral Roberts, who spreads his 'Seed Faith' gospel to his followers...my friend is one who sends money to him monthly, as she has been promised that God will reward her 100fold for her contribution to his Ministry. I believe he was once known as a Charismatic Pentecostal, and would like to hear PC's opinions on such as Oral Roberts and other TV Evangelists who preach the same as he does...I'm not sure if he is still a Pentecostal, as I believe he left to set up his own Ministry....anyway, here's a few links:

http://www.cephasministry.com/the_life_and...al_roberts.html

http://www.pastornet.net.au/renewal/journal10/j-brento.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts

http://www.ondoctrine.com/10giving.htm

http://www.ondoctrine.com/10robero.htm

The ondoctrine.com links are mainly talking about Seed Faith.

[Palerider]

If I am not mistaken.....I think it was Oral Roberts who built or was going to build a Prayer Tower...don't know for sure if that project ever happened or not.......Just curious

[pushka]

Perhaps you're mistaking it with this:

'In 1980, Oral Roberts said he had a vision of a 900-foot-tall Jesus who encouraged him to continue the construction of his City of Faith Medical and Research Center, which opened in 1981. It included three skyscrapers, the tallest being Cityplex Tower which stands at 198 meters (648 feet) with 60 floors. It is the second tallest building in Oklahoma. At the time, it was the largest health facility of its kind in the world and sought to merge prayer and medicine in the healing process.

The City of Faith was in operation for only eight years before closing in late 1989. The Orthopedic Hospital of Oklahoma still operates on these premises.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts

[prisonchaplain]

Ben said: 'I also believe that there are those in "The Ministry" that it is a great place for someone with charisma to bring dollars to their pockets nad not necessarily a calling from the Lord.'

I agree with him, and wondered whether Prison Chaplain was familiar with the TV Evangelist Oral Roberts, who spreads his 'Seed Faith' gospel to his followers...my friend is one who sends money to him monthly, as she has been promised that God will reward her 100fold for her contribution to his Ministry. I believe he was once known as a Charismatic Pentecostal, and would like to hear PC's opinions on such as Oral Roberts and other TV Evangelists who preach the same as he does...I'm not sure if he is still a Pentecostal, as I believe he left to set up his own Ministry....

The 1980s were perhaps the darkest spiritual period for my movement, and for Pentecostalism in general. The "Prosperity Gospel" "Seed Faith" "Kingdom Now" etc. teachings were very prevelent. A litany of the bad fruit:

1. Jimmy Swaggart falls to sexual voyuerism.

2. Jim Bakker has a tryst with Jessica Hahn, and is imprisoned for financial misdeeds.

3. Oral Roberts infamously says that God will 'take him home' if he doesn't raise $8 million in a month.

4. Robert Tilton is exposed for having his ministry team extract checks from prayer letters, and simply dumping the letters/prayers etc.

Yes, it was a dark time. In my own area, our national leadership came out to the local pastors meeting in the early 1980s, and implored them to forsake prosperity teachings that might call into question the faithfulness of some of our most faithful and faith-filled members, who happen to be of meager means. The result? About 5% walked out, left the fellowship, and started their own "prosperity churches." Lines in the sand are tough, but afterwards, our movement has stepped clear of the obvious excesses of these teachings.

We are children of the King. God does want to bless us. He rewards faithful givers. However, the rewards are not always financial, or even physical. Perhaps our child will be called to a particularly successful mission. Perhaps that particularly obnoxious coworker will say "Yes" this time, when we ask him/her to come to church with us.

BTW, I'm posting a teaching I did a while back on contentedness, that addresses this issue more fully and scripturally.

[pushka]

Thanks for your reply PC. I'm glad I waited up so long into the night, in the hope that I could address this with you.

I must admit that I have always taken a 'dim' view of Pentecostals in the past...not because of the above reasons/people, as I wasn't really too aware of them and which faith groups they belonged to at the time. I was just an 'ignorant' person who criticised Pentecostals mainly for their speaking in tongues...you must forgive me for this, I've become much more open minded to others' faiths since visiting this site and meeting more than just the LDS people here. Considering my former attitude towards Pentecostalism, when I heard about Oral Roberts and his supporters, and found out that my friend was following him as a Pentecostal, I just felt that all my misgivings about the faith had been proven.

I am so pleased to hear that you and your fellow ministers have not been led into the same paths as Oral Roberts and co. and look forward to reading your other post that addresses this issue more thoroughly.

Thanks! :)

[prisonchaplain]

If I am not mistaken.....I think it was Oral Roberts who built or was going to build a Prayer Tower...don't know for sure if that project ever happened or not.......Just curious

I think you're right. He built the prayer tower. Then he went on to build a hospital that would combine the best of modern medicine with the best of healing prayer. It was the hospital that brought the pressure to raise added funds.

[Red]

I do not understand the question. What Biblical Standard? Is there a standard definition of Biblical Standard?

No offense taken and hopefully none given.

Ben

The Biblical standard for church leadership (and really any Christian) would be the passage PC quoted, 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

In your your opinion, did the founders of the Mormon church live up to it?

[Palerider]

yes they did........