Glenn Beck counter rally? or More restoration for America??

[dorave]

One Nation Working Together » 10.2.10 – March on Washington

Look like the 8/28 rally really sent the liberal left into a panic. Another rally planned for 10.2.10 put on by all the big players on the left.

Grass roots right here ----> One Nation Working Together » Endorsing Organizations

Thoughts??

[Mahonri]

Folks wouldn't like my thoughts.... they should do a search on what David O. McKay thought about the EVIL unions.

[john doe]

Since they are rallying against Glenn Beck's rally, does that mean that they don't want to restore honor to America? That would explain why Charlie Rangel is involved. And how dare they usurp my cousin's birthday for political purposes.

[Elphaba]

  dorave said:

Look like the 8/28 rally really sent the liberal left into a panic.

. . . .

Thoughts??

Exactly what at that website gave you the impression that the liberal left is in a panic?

Wanting to throw a rally in response to Beck's does not indicate panic. It indicates they have a voice, and they want it to be heard above the shrill far-right conspiracy theorists who make absurd accusations, such as insisting liberals/progressives are purposely trying to destroy the country, something I've read numerous times on the Fox blogs. Something that is absolute nonsense.

Or that the government, liberals, and the Smithsonian are colluding to keep the nation's true history from its citizens, which is nonsense.

Or that our nation's honor needs to be restored because the liberals/progressives have destroyed it, which is yet more nonsense.

I can assure you this isn't about panic. It's about being fed up.

I wish this organization well, but I'm not terribly excited about their endeavor. The fact is, there's no way they're going to get anywhere near the number of attendees that Beck was able to gather, even going by the lowest headcount estimate. Beck is well-known and watched by millions of viewers, whereas I've never heard of this particular organization even though I am a fairly well-read liberal/progressive.

The problem with that is people who misinterpret the organization's motives as "panic," will also misinterpret the low headcount as proof that no one agrees with it, when that is not the case at all.

Additionally, while liberals/progressives are getting fed up, there just isn't the passion in them that there is in Beck's followers, though it is starting to ferment.

Frankly, I think it's a mistake, but perhaps I'll be proven wrong.

Elphaba

[Wingnut]

  Mahonri said:

Folks wouldn't like my thoughts.... they should do a search on what David O. McKay thought about the EVIL unions.

I'm sorry, are you saying that the Democratic party is evil, or just the particular organization(s) referenced in the OP?

Edited September 4, 2010 by Wingnut

[Moksha]

  Elphaba said:

Additionally, while liberals/progressives are getting fed up, there just isn't the passion in them that there is in Beck's followers...

Elphaba

This has something to do with a prophecy made by William Butler Yeats regarding The Second Coming.

[Mahonri]

  Wingnut said:

I'm sorry, are you saying that the Democratic party is evil, or just the particular organization(s) referenced in the OP?

Did I say ANYTHING about the Democrat Party?

No, I did not.

Are you a LEFT Wingnut?

[RanMan]

  dorave said:

One Nation Working Together » 10.2.10 – March on Washington

Look like the 8/28 rally really sent the liberal left into a panic. Another rally planned for 10.2.10 put on by all the big players on the left.

Grass roots right here ----> One Nation Working Together » Endorsing Organizations

Thoughts??

I found it interesting that it is supported by these players on the left, but state this on their webpage:

We are conservatives and moderates, progressives and liberals, non-believers and people of deep faith, united by escalating assaults on our reason, our environment, and our rights.

Which conservative organizations are part of this? Maybe they're there, but I missed them if they are. What conservative speakers will be present for this rally?

Edited September 4, 2010 by RanMan

[Wingnut]

  Mahonri said:

Did I say ANYTHING about the Democrat Party?

No, I did not.

Are you a LEFT Wingnut?

No need to be so defensive. I asked a question for clarification. You spoke of evil groups immediately following a post that spoke of the left wing. I simply wanted clarity on your opinion.

[prisonchaplain]

  dorave said:

One Nation Working Together » 10.2.10 – March on Washington

Look like the 8/28 rally really sent the liberal left into a panic. Another rally planned for 10.2.10 put on by all the big players on the left.

Grass roots right here ----> One Nation Working Together » Endorsing Organizations

Thoughts??

Sounds like a different rally altogether. How silly if the unions (most of the above) became reactionary to Glen Beck. Rather, they were impressed with his numbers, and the attention he drew, and decided it would be good for them.

I grew up thinking conservative had to mean anti-union and "right to work." Yet both my parents worked solid union jobs, and, despite living as blue-collar working class, we had good health and dental care, and were able to stay in the same house our whole childhood (despite some family dysfunction).

As a monkey wrench in the whole conservative-must-be-anti-union canard, Adam Smith, author of The Wealth of Nations argued for unions and collective bargaining. He made the proper point that individual workers, because they only bring skills, and no asset power, are in a position to be taken advantage of. Collective bargaining gives them added ability to make reasonable negotiations on their worth.

And pardon me the union abuse tactics stories--those go both ways. Pardon me the "unions destroyed the auto industry" stories--both sides negotiated, and there was plenty of greed on both sides of those tables.

The reality is that neither Bush nor Obama have done a great deal to increase the number of well-paying working class jobs. Maybe dual rallies, one emphasizing spirituality and personal responsibility, and the other the demand of workers for a fair shake will both do us good.

[dorave]

  Elphaba said:

Exactly what at that website gave you the impression that the liberal left is in a panic?

Wanting to throw a rally in response to Beck's does not indicate panic. It indicates they have a voice, and they want it to be heard above the shrill far-right conspiracy theorists who make absurd accusations, such as insisting liberals/progressives are purposely trying to destroy the country, something I've read numerous times on the Fox blogs. Something that is absolute nonsense.

Or that the government, liberals, and the Smithsonian are colluding to keep the nation's true history from its citizens, which is nonsense.

Or that our nation's honor needs to be restored because the liberals/progressives have destroyed it, which is yet more nonsense.

I can assure you this isn't about panic. It's about being fed up.

I wish this organization well, but I'm not terribly excited about their endeavor. The fact is, there's no way they're going to get anywhere near the number of attendees that Beck was able to gather, even going by the lowest headcount estimate. Beck is well-known and watched by millions of viewers, whereas I've never heard of this particular organization even though I am a fairly well-read liberal/progressive.

The problem with that is people who misinterpret the organization's motives as "panic," will also misinterpret the low headcount as proof that no one agrees with it, when that is not the case at all.

Additionally, while liberals/progressives are getting fed up, there just isn't the passion in them that there is in Beck's followers, though it is starting to ferment.

Frankly, I think it's a mistake, but perhaps I'll be proven wrong.

Elphaba

If what Glenn Beck's rally stood for, and everything he says is mere conspiracy theories n base-less accusations... then why the need to react, at all?

Conspiracy theories always fizz out, and are short lived as far as making an actual impact goes but the opposition are reacting as if there is truth behind Beck's claims.

it's straight up embarrassing to see the left get into a "my rally is bigger than your rally" fiasco.

[dorave]

  RanMan said:

I found it interesting that it is supported by these players on the left, but state this on their webpage:

We are conservatives and moderates, progressives and liberals, non-believers and people of deep faith, united by escalating assaults on our reason, our environment, and our rights.

Which conservative organizations are part of this? Maybe they're there, but I missed them if they are. What conservative speakers will be present for this rally?

Perhaps they mean they are conservative when it comes to telling the truth.

[dorave]

  Mahonri said:

Are you a LEFT Wingnut?

lol, I see what you done there, nice word play.

[Moksha]

It could well be that this rally was initiated before these groups learned that Glenn Beck's rally was not the anticipated hatefest, and that his message was actually a pleasant change of pace from his radio and TV programs.

Because of that change on pace on Glenn Beck's part, this particular planned event seems both unnecessary and over reactive.

[dorave]

  Moksha said:

It could well be that this rally was initiated before these groups learned that Glenn Beck's rally was not the anticipated hatefest, and that his message was actually a pleasant change of pace from his radio and TV programs.

Because of that change on pace on Glenn Beck's part, this particular planned event seems both unnecessary and over reactive.

An overeaction? or is it genuine concern because Glenn is exposing the truth?

These groups are not small fry who do things lightly, and they have pulled every trick in the book to discredit, dismiss, smear n boycott Glenn Beck.

[Elphaba]

  dorave said:

If what Glenn Beck's rally stood for,

I didn't comment on what his rally stood for. I believe him when he said he chose the date before realizing it was the anniversary of MLK's speech -- restorer of American history that he is not. I think when he did realize it he should have changed the date, and that it is beyond offensive that he played off of the date's/site's memory; however, that is just my sensitivities speaking. I recognize he speaks for many other Americans, and he had every right to be there.

I do think there was enough backlash that by the time the rally came around, he reined in the truly vitriolic stuff. I have no problem with how the rally turned out.

  Quote

and everything he says is mere conspiracy theories n base-less accusations... then why the need to react, at all?

Because they're American citizens who have been pushed out of the conversation by the likes of Beck, and they want back in. Perfectly reasonable.

  Quote

Conspiracy theories always fizz out, and are short lived

No, they don't, and no they're not--it's exactly the opposite. That's why they're so insidious.

  Quote

it's straight up embarrassing to see the left get into a "my rally is bigger than your rally" fiasco.

It's straight up ridiculous to see more into this than is there, sort of like conspiracy theorists do.

I've done some more looking into this rally, and I take back some of what I said before. This group actually has a very large following. It's even organizing buses from many states away to take people to the event.

I still don't think it will rival the headcount at Beck's rally, but it's not small potatoes either.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

Stephen Colbert Rally - Restoring Truthiness

Too funny.

Elphaba

[dorave]

  Elphaba said:

I didn't comment on what his rally stood for. I believe him when he said he chose the date before realizing it was the anniversary of MLK's speech -- restorer of American history that he is not. I think when he did realize it he should have changed the date, and that it is beyond offensive that he played off of the date's/site's memory; however, that is just my sensitivities speaking. I recognize he speaks for many other Americans, and he had every right to be there.

Offensive?? King's own niece was there.

  Quote

Because they're American citizens who have been pushed out of the conversation by the likes of Beck, and they want back in. Perfectly reasonable.

You're kidding right??

Go google up 'Glenn Beck' in the news search and count the number of favourable articles you find. I'll give you your 'Perfectly Resonable' if you report back with that number insupport of Glenn Beck and the Conservative voice.

  Quote

No, they don't, and no they're not--it's exactly the opposite. That's why they're so insidious.

It's straight up ridiculous to see more into this than is there, sort of like conspiracy theorists do.

You say conspiracy theories are insidious then you point out it's legitimacy in the other hand. Which is it?

A conspiracy theory is either just a base-less opinion or it is an opinion based on truth. You cant have it both ways.

ie. Either the church is true, or it is a man-made cult.

  Quote

I've done some more looking into this rally, and I take back some of what I said before. This group actually has a very large following. It's even organizing buses from many states away to take people to the event.

I still don't think it will rival the headcount at Beck's rally, but it's not small potatoes either.

Elphaba

No doubt we will see them claim it as grass roots.

[prisonchaplain]

Conspiracy theories can be baseless and live on for decades. I remember hearing in the 70s that Proctor & Gamble's president supposedly appeared on Donohue and said the company tithed to the Satanic Church. Boycott P&G was the message. It never happened. Total fabrication. Yet, not even five years ago my sister (not a religious person) received a fax with this same conspiracy! Some lies die hard. But conspiracy theories usually mix truth and fiction, and so can be impossible to kill.

[dorave]

The church has been victim of many Conspiracy theories ever since the first vision, are the Conspiracy theories still prevailant today? yes, do they stop the church from fufilling its work? no.

[Elphaba]

  dorave said:

Offensive?? King's own niece was there.

So what? That doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.

  Quote

You're kidding right??

No.

  Quote

Go google up 'Glenn Beck' in the news search and count the number of favourable articles you find.

I'll give you your 'Perfectly Resonable' if you report back with that number insupport of Glenn Beck and the Conservative voice.

Why? One has no correlation whatsoever to the other.

Glenn Beck is a celebrity. The liberals/progressives he bashes on his various medias are not. That is the point I'm trying to make. Everyday American citizens are being accused of purposely trying to ruin this country, of having destroyed its honor, of supporting an oligary, and so forth. Those are lies about me, and my fellow American progessives, not another celebrity. So the comparison is not apt.

I do agree that progessives ridicule conservatives, and they're doing so with more vitriol than I used to see. I don't support that at all.

  Quote

You say conspiracy theories are insidious then you point out it's legitimacy in the other hand.

What are you talking about?

  Quote

A conspiracy theory is either just a base-less opinion or it is an opinion based on truth. You cant have it both ways.

You're wrong. That is a false dichotomy because it can be many things, including a little bit of truth thrown with a whole lot of stupid.

  Quote

No doubt we will see them claim it as grass roots.

So what? On many levels it is grass roots.

Elphaba

[dorave]

  Elphaba said:

So what? That doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.

Walking down a street can be offensive.

  Quote

Glenn Beck is a celebrity. The liberals/progressives he bashes on his various medias are not. That is the point I'm trying to make. Everyday American citizens are being accused of purposely trying to ruin this country, of having destroyed its honor, of supporting an oligary, and so forth. Those are lies about me, and my fellow American progessives, not another celebrity. So the comparison is not apt.

The liberal progressives you talk about that Glenn bashes, are not everyday people if you compare their salaries n income, they make just as much as do celebreities make. So, your are wrong to couple them with everyday folk albeit with a progressive mindset.

  Quote

What are you talking about?

You were saying Glenn Beck is rubbish - then you're saying the reason why the left feel leftout of the conversation is because he makes invalid claims, if this were true how does one pose a threat to another when the threat is based on rubbish?

My thoughts are that geniune threats are never based on rubbish. Have you ever thought that you might just be on the wrong side? After all, both sides of the spectrum can't be all right.

  Quote

You're wrong. That is a false dichotomy because it can be many things, including a little bit of truth thrown with a whole lot of stupid.

  Quote

So what? On many levels it is grass roots.

Elphaba

Yeah well, I disagree.

[bytor2112]

  Quote

The reality is that neither Bush nor Obama have done a great deal to increase the number of well-paying working class jobs.

That's not really the role of government and the dismal results of the efforts of both parties should lead us all to want less government intervention in the private sector ....not more. As for Unions......they bargain and negotiate and in the end if that don't like the results....on them and seriously, public sector unions are....irksome.

As for decent paying working class jobs......maybe we need to stop trying to funnel every kid into college and start career path training in high school so that we have a well trained working class. Talking about devaluing a bachelors degree. Got a bachelors degree? So what? Doesn't mean much anymore if you want to compete. U mean , how many people with business degrees or psychology degrees do we need? Oh and the term working class or working families always makes me ill.......I am not a plumber or an automaker....BUT, I work very hard and have a family.

Edited September 6, 2010 by bytor2112

[Over43]

I recall in an Elder's Quorum meeting once an Elder's Quorum president stating, "If you're a Democrat, you shouldn't be allowed to have a Temple recommend..." Not exactly the American way, nor "Church" endorsed.

The unfortunate thing about US politics is the lack of debate and coversation. It's all yelling, accusations and threats.

Someday Jospeh's prophecy, "The Constitution will hang by a thread.." will fall into place, and my guess is both major politial parties will be at fault.

[Dbuild]

Glenn Beck is absolutely a fraud. he talks out of both corners of his mouth. he says "kill patriot" in one sentence and presumes to be their leader in the next. he says what his 52 million contract tells him too. Follow the money and it will always tell the truth.