lds backlash from gay community cnn.com

[Gwen]

Newsroom - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

thank you wing.

sadly i think for most members to ever see and others to believe it it needs to be said in a general conf. or some other such official meeting by a general authority. though i am very happy to see it.

[Just_A_Guy]

Right now i have to quote 3 or 4 talks and a pamphlet and even then i'm wondering sometimes if it really says what i think it does cause members turn around and use the same things against me. The anger i don't think is at the church for supporting, but possibly for not just making it crystal clear like they have some other positions such as abortion. I can find a direct quote on it and say see this is a very clear, hard to question or misunderstand statement.

The funny thing is, I think at this point (even before today's release) the authoritative doctrinal basis for the way we ought to be treating gays--and the question of whether or not it's genetic--is at least as solid as that whole R-rated movies prohibition ever was.

In this, as in so many other topics, many Church members will hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest.

[Soulsearcher]

thank you wing.

sadly i think for most members to ever see and others to believe it it needs to be said in a general conf. or some other such official meeting by a general authority. though i am very happy to see it.

I agree, but I'll take baby steps :)

[Soulsearcher]

The funny thing is, I think at this point (even before today's release) the authoritative doctrinal basis for the way we ought to be treating gays--and the question of whether or not it's genetic--is at least as solid as that whole R-rated movies prohibition ever was.

In this, as in so many other topics, many Church members will hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest.

I agree, but it makes it hard to have a serious discussion. I mean yes i'm an outsider, but i do try to debate with in the confines of the faith, to try and show respect. I will look to the words of leaders to make my case and when those words become completely based on personal opinion it makes it hard to gain any ground. Hard to not look like some fool just quoting things when so many claim i have no real understanding.

[ADoyle90815]

I tend to think that homosexuality is something that one is born with, while the majority of us are born to be heterosexual. I don't see how someone could chose to be gay when religion considers it to be a serious sin. All I know is that I was born straight, just as I have brown eyes and freckles.

[Dravin]

thank you wing.

sadly i think for most members to ever see and others to believe it it needs to be said in a general conf. or some other such official meeting by a general authority. though i am very happy to see it.

And I think for some it won't matter even then. Some folks have their own doctrine irrespective of the official position.

[Soulsearcher]

Quote:

I also know this view might get me some bad reviews, but could one see the comments that were edited out of Elder Packers talk as grandstanding?

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. Could you elaborate? Thanks. __________________

The comment about "god would not do that" and such, some could and did see that as grandstanding. While it depends on the audience, intent can always be questioned by those on the outside who might not appreciate the person or group who is speaking.

[dorave]

The Church recognizes that those of its members who are attracted to others of the same sex experience deep emotional, social, and physical feelings. The Church distinguishes between feelings or inclinations on the one hand, and behavior on the other. It’s not a sin to have feelings, only in yielding to temptation.

Can someone please explain how having physical feelings for another outside of marriage is not a sin?

All I see is a gaping flaw in the above Church statemet and I think I need to be clarified more.

[Dravin]

Can someone please explain how having physical feelings for another outside of marriage is not a sin?

Sure.

Step 1: See cute girl.

Step 2: Think she's cute.

Step 3: Certain biological processes happen of their own accord.

Step 4: Tell certain biological processes to shush.

Step 5: Move on with my day.

Not only did I have a feeling based on physicality I had a physical reaction and no need to repent. And no, she's cute isn't a euphemism for dwell on lustful thoughts concerning her.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Dravin

[dorave]

That's my entire point. Yet you still seem content to hold an opinion that runs counter to both the General Authorities and the official statement of the church.

Tendencies can't always be overcome. Temptations can. The changes reflect that.

Prince Of Light..

It's not that I blatantly disagree, I just do not understand it's logic.

If by tendencies you mean it is referring to physical urges? then at what point is that not a sin? at what type and level of the word ''tendency'' are we implying here?

[applepansy]

I'm glad that the church made the statement. I hope that some of the misunderstanding can stop.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Prince Of Light..

It's not that I blatantly disagree, I just do not understand it's logic.

If by tendencies you mean it is referring to physical urges? then at what point is that not a sin? at what type and level of the word ''tendency'' are we implying here?

Dravin took care of it above you.

Digging up posts from old threads in order to continue debate in new threads should be a ban-able offense.

[dorave]

Sure.

Step 1: See cute girl.

Step 2: Think she's cute.

Step 3: Certain biological processes happen of their own accord.

Step 4: Tell certain biological processes to shush.

Step 5: Move on with my day.

Even if say, you were a married man? or say, the cute girl was your sister?

[Dravin]

Even if say, you were a married man? or say, the cute girl was your sister?

Yes.

Well that was simple.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Even if say, you were a married man? or say, the cute girl was your sister?

Can you help it when you find people attractive, dorave? If so, I'd like you to teach me how to do it.

[dorave]

Can you help it when you find people attractive, dorave? If so, I'd like you to teach me how to do it.

It's called living by principle, or being directed by truth, and not by nature, something that requires the act of choice. Cool?

[PrinceofLight2000]

It's called living by principle, or being directed by truth, and not by nature, something that requires the act of choice. Cool?

So you can manipulate the chemicals in your body by sheer force of will? You should go get checked out by some doctors, you could make money off of this.

[dorave]

So you can manipulate the chemicals in your body by sheer force of will? You should go get checked out by some doctors, you could make money off of this.

Great things don't come easy, my friend.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Great things don't come easy, my friend.

You didn't answer the question, bud.

[Just_A_Guy]

It's called living by principle, or being directed by truth, and not by nature, something that requires the act of choice. Cool?

How marvelous. Perhaps you should swing by 50 E. North Temple and explain that process to the Brethren.

[dorave]

Yes.

Well that was simple.

Being the married man I am, if I ever find myself think ...'that girl's cute' -- I know that is wrong because of the fact I am what I am, a married man. Then quietly repent so the thought does not repeat. Otherwise, there is a likely chance If I were to casually brush it off as nonchalantly as you suggested, I would indeed repeat that thought.

[Dravin]

How marvelous. Perhaps you should swing by 50 E. North Temple and explain that process to the Brethren.

Well he would but then they'd screw it up in the press release.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Being the married man I am, if I ever find myself think ...'that girl's cute' -- I know that is wrong because of the fact I am what I am, a married man. Then quietly repent so the thought does not repeat. Otherwise, there is a likely chance If I were to casually brush it off as nonchalantly as you suggested, I would indeed repeat that thought.

"This girl looks nice/attractive/cute/pretty" =/= "HOLY COW WHAT A LOOKER, I WANT TO TAKE HER CLOTHES OFF RIGHT NOW!!11!!1"

Edited October 12, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[dorave]

How marvelous. Perhaps you should swing by 50 E. North Temple and explain that process to the Brethren.

Oh, they do have it already, it's loaded throughout the scriptures.

[Dravin]

Oh, they do have it already, it's loaded throughout the scriptures.

And yet they disagree with you. Strange that.