Did your ward receive letters from the First Presidency ?

[NeuroTypical]

So, if this is the 3rd (or so) time that a FP letter about "self-awareness groups" has had to be read to the general membership of the church- what is going on that LDS members still continue to feel the need to seek out ways to "find themselves" in such groups?

This is an odd question. We've also been speaking out against the evils of alcohol and unchaste behavior for umpteen generations - and yet the problem persists.

What sort of answer would make sense here? Basic human weakness? Crap doesn't give up and flee when the FP issues a letter about it?

Do you think there's something specific about us mormons that make us more prone to this sort of getting hoodwinked than the next church over?

LM

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I sorry if I have offended you in some way Loudmouth_Mormon, I hope that our disagreements over certain issues don't cause contention between us.

I think the lack of meaningful interaction amoung LDS members outside of church sanctioned events may lead to a sense of emotional loneliness/isolation that may lead them to seek out such groups. Also, I believe the emphasis on perfection and excelling at everything you do may play against the average LDS person who fails to live up to what they believe is expected of them. People need to know that it is OK to fail or be mediocre at some things. We can't be great at everything.

Edited November 11, 2010 by BookofMormonLuvr
spelling

[pam]

This is an odd question. We've also been speaking out against the evils of alcohol and unchaste behavior for umpteen generations - and yet the problem persists.

What sort of answer would make sense here? Basic human weakness? Crap doesn't give up and flee when the FP issues a letter about it?

Do you think there's something specific about us mormons that make us more prone to this sort of getting hoodwinked than the next church over?

LM

Not to leave out that last several sessions of General Conference has focused on the evils of pornography. You have new members joining all the time. So you are letting those that are new know and reminding those that have been members for some time.

[Just_A_Guy]

I think the lack of meaningful interaction amoung LDS members outside of church sanctioned events may lead to a sense of emotional loneliness/isolation that may lead them to seek out such groups.

To each his own, I suppose; but that has not been my experience with Mormonism either in California (where members were relatively sparse) or in Utah (where they are your next-door neighbors).

Also, I believe the emphasis on perfection and excelling at everything you do may play against the average LDS person who fails to live up to what they believe is expected of them. People need to know that it is OK to fail or be mediocre at some things. We can't be great at everything.

Given that these groups purport to teach you to live on a higher plane or what-have-you, I don't think that's the issue. If anything, they seem to prey on the overachievers.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm not offended, just wondering where you get your information about us.

I think the lack of meaningful interaction amoung LDS members outside of church sanctioned events may lead to a sense of emotional loneliness/isolation that may lead them to seek out such groups.

Again, I'm left shaking my head. I grew up in Utah as part of the majority faith, and now I live outside Utah as part of a minority. Your thought baffles me. Lack of meaningful interaction? According to who? From my earliest memories, our neighbors, my friends, kids at school, co-workers, were a mix of LDS and non-LDS. If there was some sort of clannish cult rule I was breaking by hanging out with nonmormons, nobody ever got around to telling me about it. Here in Colorado, my daughters go to a homeschool co-op held in a mega-church, a secular Girl Scout troop, and are constantly swept away by the Catholic neighbor's 8 kids. They've gone to birthday parties and play dates with LDS and nonLDS kids.

No really, where did you get the notion there is a "lack of meaningful interaction amoung LDSmembers outside of church sanctioned events"?

Also, I believe the emphasis on perfection and excelling at everything you do may play against the average LDS person who fails to live up to what they believe is expected of them. People need to know that it is OK to fail or be mediocre at some things. We can't be great at everything.

This is a bit less baffling, since every now and then you run into a mormon that suffers from this misunderstanding. But in my experience, we emphasize "coming closer to God" because it's good for us - not because it's expected of us. Doing better than we did yesterday - not perfection. Discovering and nurturing our talents - not 'excelling at everything we do'. Our leaders and members share personal stories about mistakes they've made and how they've learned.

No, regardless of where you heard this stuff, I don't think it holds any water about why shysters prey on us like they do everyone else.

LM

Edited November 12, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I am not going to continue this discussion, it is not my intention to cause contention. Apparently, any observation I may have contrary what is generally accepted will interpreted as contention, so I will pick my discussions more carefully- and this one is not worth it. I do believe, however, that it is healthy for members of any church, and the church itself, to discuss potential issues within their ranks instead of pretending everything is rosy. I will leave it at that. Hopefully, some of your fellow LDS members who see what I am poorly trying to say will speak up, I am sure they will have more credit with you then this crazy apostate. :)

[Just_A_Guy]

BookofMormonLuvr, I see what you're saying. But these seminars don't seem to be openly encouraging their members to abandon the LDS Church, which implies that their participants are still getting something from their church membership.

The average person who dumps thousands of dollars on a program promising a "higher plane" or "enlightenment" or a better relationship with God than what the Church can offer, isn't trying to fill a void. He's just trying to be "better than" those unwashed masses who stuck with the Church program. The disease manifests itself in a variety of ways: obsessing over obscure facts of Church history, pursuing long-forgotten doctrines from the Journal of Discourses, embracing social or theological liberalism just for the sake of being "different", or even just pursuing education per se. [i'm not saying everyone who gets into these things is trying to manifest their own superiority--some of them find these hobbies quite interesting, or honestly believe in some of these ideologies. But in a heckuvalot of these cases--the root issue is pride.]

It's just that these particular symptoms, have particularly drastic short-term material consequences.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[pam]

Hopefully, some of your fellow LDS members who see what I am poorly trying to say will speak up, I am sure they will have more credit with you then this crazy apostate. :)

Are you a former member?

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't think he ever was a Mormon, but a mainline Christian who happens to embrace the Book of Mormon.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Are you a former member?

Interesting question... My answer would be "Yes" and "No"

Yes, in that in LDS thinking I would be a "former member" because years ago I was baptized into and attended the LDS Church.

No, in that I believe I belong to the Church of Christ that was organized in 1830, so I don't see myself as a "former member" but a current member of the church. Just as I see you as a member of the Church of Christ. The same goes for my brothers and sisters in the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), the Church of Jesus Christ, the various branches of RLDSism, and most others baptized by the line of authority coming from John the Baptist through Oliver and Joseph... (though I do have a problem with those churches that give women the Priesthood and those practicing plural marriage).

Needless to say- My view of who constitutes "the church" is has grown considerably over the past few years. I love you all as my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

[GADBabaganoosh]

If you are paying for enlightenment, and can't receive the enlightenment unless you pay, and there are men who profit from it, i see it as priestcraft, Or simply falsehood.

[Another_Member]

I attended Impact training many years ago (the basic three)

They require a contract to be signed not to divulge things about the training. But there are things I was told that did not come from my training:

A young husband, who was married after returning from a mission, committed suicide after the 2nd or 3rd day of the first training. I was told Hans Berger took a three month break from training. During the first training after he got back, a woman admitted she was suicidal, then he yelled at her for being selfish.

Another person told me in advanced training Hans has an empty chair next to him for the Savior, parts a veil to invite spirits into the room, has the trainees close their eyes while he blesses them.

Did I learn anything about myself? Yes, I couple of things. Definitely didn't increase my level of spirituality (part due to the training itself, the other due to sleep deprivation). But in time life experiences have resulted in a heightened level, in which I not only am aware of my talents and blessings, but have also learned how to develop them to a higher level. I now see many ways in which I'm blessed and being protected. God has his own way of guiding and embracing His children and Impact Training is NOT one of the ways to do that.

One other poster shared one of the ripoff reports. This is a list of complaints:

impact training | Ripoff Report | Complaints Reviews Scams Lawsuits Frauds Reported

In the second comment from a supporter of impact (typical in your face manipulation):

Impact Training

However let me advise you that they will never be taken advantage of by others, and they are surrounded by an army of people that could completely destroy your anonymous world (yes you...)

And you can not post bullshit on this or any other forum and remain anonymous... Wanna Play? All it takes is one call from Hans Or Sally and your world will NEVER be the same... Something to think about..

Edited April 28, 2013 by Another_Member