Glen Beck & Prisonchaplain...are we alike?

[prisonchaplain]

First the disclaimers...PLEASE NOTE THAT I INTENTIONALLY POSTED THIS IN THE GOSPEL FORUM--NOT THE POLITICAL ONE! Sorry for the all-caps, but Glen Beck strings have a history of quickly becoming political hyperbole and then going down in flames. So...let's all play nice. :)

Okay, so I'm reading my local evangelical Christian newspaper, the Christian Examiner, and it has a front page article about Glen Beck's spirituality. There is, of course, some discussion of the great caution many Christian leaders urge. There is a quote from a Utah-based evangelical mission (not the Tanner's). BUT, THEN, the article turns the other direction. Several evangelicals are quoted who have no problem with Glen Beck's spiritual discourse, nor with appearing on his stage, in support of his calls for Renewal. What they suggest is:

A. Beck's content is spiritually vague, though clearly theistic. He's not calling America to his church, but to God.

B. One can see influences in his speeches from his LDS faith, but also from the 12-step movement, and from the evangelicalism of some of these ministers he's been around of late.

C. Perhaps the alleged softening of walls and lines between evangelicalism and Mormonism is something of a two-way street. No compromising, just better understanding, and perhaps even a realization that our differences, while important, are not quite so impassible as we all imagined.

Reading all this I thought that maybe I am Glen Beck in reverse...though without the fame, fortune, or advertising sponsors? Then again...you read my stuff, and you don't get hammered about buying gold, refinancing your mortgage, or shelling out money for ...well, for anything really? Ah...the trade offs!

[Just_A_Guy]

I heartily agree with your Point C.

As for the rest: one difference between you, of course, is that the article seems to a) perceive Beck as somehow less "Mormon" for the other influences he embraces, and b) perceive Mormonism of trying to infiltrate the ranks of Christianity by stealth. By contrast, I don't see you as either less "Evangelical" or as having any duplicitous motivations (maybe that's just because you're really, really good at it?)

I hope this isn't too much of a threadjack, but I for one, was most intrigued by the following portion of the article (which I won't link, but which isn't that hard to find online):

“The fault is not the Mormons, come to think of it. Is it? The fault is us—as evangelicals—who have such a constituency that doesn’t understand basic theology,” Garlow said. “It’s up to us to teach. The responsibility is on us to help our people know the differences. It’s not a condemnation on Mormonism, but an indictment on us.”

I think some of the awkwardness between Evangelical leaders and Mormonism is, Mormonism in some ways embraces ideas that the Evangelical rank-and-file is already inclined to believe. It thus puts mainline Christian pastors in the always-uncomfortable situation of teaching their members doctrines that the members don't really want to hear. It's a lot easier to attack the person presenting the heresy than it is to confront, debate, and demolish the heresy itself. (It's the same tension Mormonism faces with, say, its own liberal wing that wants to allow non-celibate gays in full fellowship or open up the temple liturgy to spectators or somehow democratize the Church organization--stuff that sounds good, but which our prevailing interpretation of our own scriptures just doesn't permit.)

[Traveler]

First the disclaimers...PLEASE NOTE THAT I INTENTIONALLY POSTED THIS IN THE GOSPEL FORUM--NOT THE POLITICAL ONE! Sorry for the all-caps, but Glen Beck strings have a history of quickly becoming political hyperbole and then going down in flames. So...let's all play nice. :)

Okay, so I'm reading my local evangelical Christian newspaper, the Christian Examiner, and it has a front page article about Glen Beck's spirituality. There is, of course, some discussion of the great caution many Christian leaders urge. There is a quote from a Utah-based evangelical mission (not the Tanner's). BUT, THEN, the article turns the other direction. Several evangelicals are quoted who have no problem with Glen Beck's spiritual discourse, nor with appearing on his stage, in support of his calls for Renewal. What they suggest is:

A. Beck's content is spiritually vague, though clearly theistic. He's not calling America to his church, but to God.

B. One can see influences in his speeches from his LDS faith, but also from the 12-step movement, and from the evangelicalism of some of these ministers he's been around of late.

C. Perhaps the alleged softening of walls and lines between evangelicalism and Mormonism is something of a two-way street. No compromising, just better understanding, and perhaps even a realization that our differences, while important, are not quite so impassible as we all imagined.

Reading all this I thought that maybe I am Glen Beck in reverse...though without the fame, fortune, or advertising sponsors? Then again...you read my stuff, and you don't get hammered about buying gold, refinancing your mortgage, or shelling out money for ...well, for anything really? Ah...the trade offs!

PC. I find you the great exception to LDS talking to Evangelicals and vice versa. If I remember right you first came to this forum to get ideas form LDS to better serve the LDS you minister to in Prison. I have a Baptist friend that I also get along with but that is because we have a history of working together on some automation projects where he worked.

For the most part of LDS history it has been other religions that were trouble and forced us to into the wilderness and to make our way out west. We did not have that much of a problem with the G-dless atheists. I assumed that it was because we were more of a lightning rod for certain religious movements than the atheists. But this seem to be taking a rather sharp turn as of late. LDS seem to be getting in the way of atheists and it would appear that Evangelicals have noticed.

In short – I am not sold on the whole Evangelicals and LDS should be friends thing. However, from your example I believe it can be. What I am wondering is if your posting among us is a trend or a very rare exception.

Regardless of what it is you will always be welcome in my home and by my side when traveling.

The Traveler

Edited November 16, 2010 by Traveler

[pam]

I'm not sure I agree with your last paragraph PC. You may not push the gold, refinancing etc...but I did get suckered into buying you dinner at Olive Garden once if memory serves me. :)

[prisonchaplain]

You have a remarkably good memory, all things considered, Pam...

[prisonchaplain]

One clear example of fellowship influencing teaching is that I do find myself stressing more the righteousness and holiness that Christ calls us to. Those grace/works discussions do have their subtle impacts. :-)

[prisonchaplain]

In short – I am not sold on the whole Evangelicals and LDS should be friends thing. However, from your example I believe it can be. What I am wondering is if your posting among us is a trend or a very rare exception.

Probably more the latter than the former, though I see a few shining star examples here and there. My guess is not too many years back that article I referenced would have had no favorable side to it...in fact, I doubt Beck could have conjured up a Black Robe brigade.

Regardless of what it is you will always be welcome in my home and by my side when traveling.

The Traveler

Careful what you wish for...btw, how long do I have to keep honking out here on your driveway, with my wife, 3 kids, dog, neighbors who came along, distant relatives who joined me, etc. etc. ???

[Bensalem]

I'll stay away from comparisons of you and Glen Beck...I don't know either of you. Neither do I get advice from TV. Brigham Young said wheat will be as valuable as gold in the latter-days. The only reason gold is at such record highs is because a lot of hot air is being blown into the gold balloon. It won't last. Don't you see, the next pop if coming.

An investor should look into food storage if he wants to increase his portfolio. Gold has no future.

[prisonchaplain]

Interesting...we have a friend who does financial advising for a living, and he argues the same about the gold. Right now, though, we've investing in education. No matter what happens, they can't take that away.

[Traveler]

Probably more the latter than the former, though I see a few shining star examples here and there. My guess is not too many years back that article I referenced would have had no favorable side to it...in fact, I doubt Beck could have conjured up a Black Robe brigade.

Careful what you wish for...btw, how long do I have to keep honking out here on your driveway, with my wife, 3 kids, dog, neighbors who came along, distant relatives who joined me, etc. etc. ???

We have a 7 bedroom house and all our children have moved on – so there is plenty of room. Our grand kids have allergies so pets must be outside so they can visit and we have a very nice dog run in the back. Our LDS ward is 2 blocks away so one can walk to church from here – it is about 6 miles to the closest Evangelical meeting house.

I believe the only real obstacle is the LDS – Evangelical thing and how comfortable you would be in an LDS home. BTW I do know a few Korean fraises.

The Traveler

[Bensalem]

Interesting...we have a friend who does financial advising for a living, and he argues the same about the gold. Right now, though, we've investing in education. No matter what happens, they can't take that away.

Education pays dividends.

[Bensalem]

Interesting...we have a friend who does financial advising for a living, and he argues the same about the gold. Right now, though, we've investing in education. No matter what happens, they can't take that away.

Investment is education certainly pays dividends.

[prisonchaplain]

I believe the only real obstacle is the LDS – Evangelical thing and how comfortable you would be in an LDS home. BTW I do know a few Korean fraises.

The Traveler

The Korean phrase knowledge cancels out the LDS thing. So...next time we're in the neighborhood...hey, we'll even bring the kimchi!

[rayhale]

I always thought that it was odd that gold is the standard for the price of money. You can’t do anything with it, you really can’t build anything with it, the only thing that I can think of, is that it’s good for radio reception. For me, if I were to set something for the price of money, I would use something that is useful, like oil, iron, wood, or like PC said, education, or food, or anything useful.

[Dravin]

I always thought that it was odd that gold is the standard for the price of money. You can’t do anything with it, you really can’t build anything with it, the only thing that I can think of, is that it’s good for radio reception.

Other electronics and fillings. I am sure there are a few other things but by and large the demand isn't it's 'inherent' value as a construction material but as a fungible and nonperishable good and the fact people are attracted to shiny.

For me, if I were to set something for the price of money, I would use something that is useful, like oil, iron, wood, or like PC said, education, or food, or anything useful.

Japan used to have a system based on rice.