Money & Religion: A Whole New Can Of Worms!

[Ray]

What I'm saying is that many here (including LDS) are tired of your all-knowing, superior attitude. I'm saying that Prison Chaplain probably (although I'm absolutely not trying to speak for him) is sure that he doesn't need 'authority' from someone in your church to make his job official. I'm sure of this, if he is not!

But the first step is to help him to see how our Lord has given and continues to give "His" authority, and then once he sees and understands that he should know how to get "His" authority.

And btw, several of us have got that rock rolling and are waiting to hear back from Tommy. :)

[shanstress70]

So PC, you're thinking about joining the LDS church? Congrats, I suppose.

[Ray]

Heh, no, he's not THAT far along yet, but this "line" and "precept" will help him. :)

[pushka]

Shanstress, I gotta support you on this one...

I'm afraid your comment to PC made me cringe too Ray. Lots of us have heard how you 'know' certain things are true because God assured you of that, and I'm sure that PC already knew, before you felt the need to remind him again, that you didn't believe in the authority of his particular church. I think it's the repetition, over and over again, of your stating 'you know' that sometimes annoys posters.

Sorry for getting involved in a conversation I wasn't a part of, but you and I have gone over this in the past too, haven't we Ray?

[Dror]

"Money answereth all things."

[prisonchaplain]

And btw, I’m not trying to be offensive to you here, and I’m also not trying to cause any bad feelings within you, but I do feel the urge to say what I am saying because I want to help you know God even better.

Having come to know your online persona, I appreciate the spiritual confidence that sense of urgency you have about souls. We've not reached the same conclusions, but we both approach faith as something that is primary in life, and we both wish to aggressively share the truth and joy we've found. So, I'm not offended, nor am I feeling bad.

So PC, you're thinking about joining the LDS church? Congrats, I suppose.

I like your avatar--always smiling.

You've probably noted that my religious identification is clearly labeled. Me thinks Ray's "rock rolling" reference is more to the point that he sees me as a God-seeker with an open heart (well...I hope he does...I believe I am), and so, will eventually embrace what he believes is true.

I'll restate what I said back in October, when I joined: I'm hear to learn and share, and am grateful for the ample opportunity I have had to do both.

[Bob_oz]

G’Day one and all,

Well I have just joined LDS Talk and picked on this topic to try and get a feel for what is happening here. Interesting start point, all 55 postings! I hope I have got the right slant on things.

By the time I got to number 55 I thought I had to go back to the topic to understand what we were looking for, so here without further ado is my first posting to LDS Talk, I hope I don’t bore you.

1. I think it’s just fine that other churches elect to have a paid clergy, I know of many great things done in my community by those full time ministers, caring and concern individuals who place others before self. I also know those who have championed causes with gusto and dedication. I know many, if not most that are as poor as church mice and a few who are doing very well. Some are amongst the best of people, others, well it’s not my place to judge them as I have been wrong a couple of times in the past. One thing I know is that as long as people are human there will be good and there will be, ah, not so good!

I have friends who are fully trained counsellors and psychologists and who frankly have more troubles in there own lives than the people they council so I am not so sure you always get good results from years of training and ministers are trained to counsel. Frankly, I know a good plumber who can give better advice (no, he is not LDS).

I have read the scriptures quoted and find that interpretation is a big factor in what we read in the Bible. My KJV indicates “preach without cost” as an intro to one scripture quoted here as a demonstration that an Apostle was paid for full time service. I think of the early LDS missionaries who left families to attend to full time and overseas missionary service and left with nothing more than the coat on their back trusting the Lord to provide for both they and their family, I do hope because they were full time for two or three years we don’t regard them as employed.

One sister mentioned the failing of her Bishop to meet her needs, how true that is all too often it seems. How often have I found my own disappointment in the same way and I am sure that with more time, more experience and more training each and every minister would perform better, in and out of the Church. But as I mentioned earlier it matters not how well they may be trained there is no guarantee they will get it right. I have, however, found that when I sit down one on one and I am open and receptive I can learn something, not always what I want but something to take away, ponder and plead with my Father in Heaven to teach me the way I should go. The Lord takes simple men and makes them special.

2. Again I have no problem with a charge to special events organised as mentioned but if we are talking of the LDS activity program we support the ability of all being able to attend no mater who, when or where and circumstances, that are funded within budget guidelines. I think there is more to be said for dedicated, imaginative, creative and hard working people than the need for extravagant funding. I have been to concerts, dances and shows of the highest quality that have met these criteria and not restricted or embarrassed any one who could not afford it.

3. When I read this I have to admit that I thought of buying status, like seating in church, but as I see this was not the focus I assume that being an LDS site we are thinking of apparent LDS restrictions on Temple attendance to worthy members.

As has been mentioned Temples are very special to members and there are requirements for entry. There are also requirements for entry to Church membership, not just the LDS Church, for us its baptism and life change and commitment that goes with it. Would I be invited to participate in another church unless I committed to the requirements of the organisation, I think not.

The Lord has given order in all things and the Temple is His house and it’s only by commitment and demonstration that we are permitted to enter there. There is not a restriction, there is a blessing.

4. I don’t think for one moment that we need be concerned with the hearts of men in the degree of dedication they demonstrate, the Lord knows these things and all will be well. We have no need to tell the world of our good works to have them recognised.

Regarding the Bishop’s relationship to the member, let me clarify my understanding, that the man is the Lords Bishop and for the time he has that responsibility he represents the Lord with the member, he provides the member an opportunity to review his or her earthly progress, an opportunity not a requirement. An opportunity to have a spiritual check up and yes that includes a number of specifics including the commitments made at baptism, the commandments of God and other maters pertaining to his or her return to our Heavenly Father. These matters are confidential between the two persons. What an incredible blessing to sit in counsel with Gods appointed servant and check if you are on course. What an opportunity to identify course corrections that will help us better communicate with a loving Father by personal prayer that opens the windows to personal revelation.

5. A good Christian is one who lives a life like that of Jesus Christ, the more we do this the more the Lord will bless us, including the financial and then the more opportunities we have to give, to serve and to live a Christlike life.

We have discussed Church GA’s and how they are supported. In detail I don’t know but I do see that many have done well in life but the sweat of their brow, many are talented professionals who came to full time Church Service after financially successful lives, I can make some assumptions from that. Others like President Hinkley (I assume) did it tougher, read his life story and you will see his life was not in making wealth in the world. Each is different I believe that they may or may not have some support as they serve I feel is of little consequence.

For me, I think the Lord expects me to do of my best in all aspects of my life and rewards me accordingly.

6. Does God want Christians to be Successful; absolutely that is why we are here.

Does God want Christians to be rich; Why not, we can do more for others, move His work forward faster and we make better tools?

I am at best middle class in the financial ledgers but you know most people in the world look at me and think I am financially rich beyond their wildest dreams!

Well I have rambled on some, maybe I will not bore you again but I have gained from this time reading your postings, thank you.

Bob

[Dr T]

Welcome Oz,

Thanks for your contribution.

Dr. T

[Ray]

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And btw, I’m not trying to be offensive to you here, and I’m also not trying to cause any bad feelings within you, but I do feel the urge to say what I am saying because I want to help you know God even better.

Having come to know your online persona, I appreciate the spiritual confidence that sense of urgency you have about souls. We've not reached the same conclusions, but we both approach faith as something that is primary in life, and we both wish to aggressively share the truth and joy we've found. So, I'm not offended, nor am I feeling bad.

So PC, you're thinking about joining the LDS church? Congrats, I suppose.

I like your avatar--always smiling.

You've probably noted that my religious identification is clearly labeled. Me thinks Ray's "rock rolling" reference is more to the point that he sees me as a God-seeker with an open heart (well...I hope he does...I believe I am), and so, will eventually embrace what he believes is true.

I'll restate what I said back in October, when I joined: I'm hear to learn and share, and am grateful for the ample opportunity I have had to do both.

I love you, brother. You are a very awesome "dude". :)

... but don't think I think you're perfect, or that you don't have more to learn, which is probably the same thing you think about me, because we do not agree on everything.

... yet. :)

... and the only way we can "know" the Truth is to receive our assurance from God.