Apostles, Keys, Apostasy, and Authority

[Jason_J]

Hi all,

I was reading a thread over at Catholic Answers Forum, and one Catholic member posted a question that I am having some difficulty understanding. His post was a little combative, so I'll put it in my own words below:

From my understanding, the Great Apostasy was the loss of priesthood authority and keys, since there were no new apostles (which all of Christianity agrees with, as traditional Christians do not believe that there were any apostles after John). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but LDS believe that only apostles hold the keys of the Kingdom, and the President, the senior apostle, holds all of the keys.

The LDS Church was organized in 1830, yet the Quorum of the Twelve wasn't organized until 1835. So, how could Joseph Smith and others exercise priesthood authority if only apostles hold the keys, and the President is the senior apostle? Did Joseph consider himself to be an apostle? Who held the keys on earth prior to 1835 if apostles hold the keys?

Thanks!

[Justice]

The Priesthood Keys weren't all restored at once. One can be ordained to an office in the Priesthood without receiving keys, it happens all the time. When the Quorum of the Twelve was organized they received some of the keys of the office. It wasn't until April 3, 1836 in the temple in Kirtland, Ohio where the rest of the keys were received. They weren't needed until a temple was built.

First they saw the Lord who stood upon the breastwork of the pulpit and He accepted the House (temple).

Then, Moses appeared, then Elias, and then Elijah, each bestowing the keys of their dispensation. The keys of the gathering of Israel and the keys needed to perform ordinances in the house the Lord had just approved were given to them at that time.

The restoration happened over a long period of time, and didn't happen all at once. Whatever keys they needed at the time they were given. A perfect example was when they were given the Aaronic Priesthood in order to be baptized. They didn't need the Melkezidek Priesthood to baptize.

[pam]

Awesome answer Justice and precisely what I was going to post until I saw your response.

[LDSChristian]

Hi all,

I was reading a thread over at Catholic Answers Forum, and one Catholic member posted a question that I am having some difficulty understanding. His post was a little combative, so I'll put it in my own words below:

From my understanding, the Great Apostasy was the loss of priesthood authority and keys, since there were no new apostles (which all of Christianity agrees with, as traditional Christians do not believe that there were any apostles after John). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but LDS believe that only apostles hold the keys of the Kingdom, and the President, the senior apostle, holds all of the keys.

The LDS Church was organized in 1830, yet the Quorum of the Twelve wasn't organized until 1835. So, how could Joseph Smith and others exercise priesthood authority if only apostles hold the keys, and the President is the senior apostle? Did Joseph consider himself to be an apostle? Who held the keys on earth prior to 1835 if apostles hold the keys?

Thanks!

Joseph Smith was first given the Aaronic Priesthood on May 15 (my birthday :) ) so he did have authority to do limited things for a while such as baptism. As Justice said, the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood weren't needed until the temple was built.

[Wingnut]

In addition to Justice's great response, it should be clarified that Apostle is more than a calling or position. It's also an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood. So it is possible to be an Apostle without the existence of the actual Quorum of Apostles yet.

[mapman]

In addition to Justice's great response, it should be clarified that Apostle is more than a calling or position. It's also an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood. So it is possible to be an Apostle without the existence of the actual Quorum of Apostles yet.

Right, there are apostles that aren't part of the Quorum of the 12. For example being part of the First Presidency means you're not part of the Quorum although you still are an apostle. There is some evidence that the Three Witnesses were apostles even though they never were part of the Quorum. They were the ones that selected and ordained the apostles that became the original twelve. D&C 18 talks about how Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer are to find the twelve and also says this: "And now, Oliver Cowdery, I speak unto you, and also unto David Whitmer, by the way of commandment; for, behold, I command all men everywhere to repent, and I speak unto you, even as unto Paul mine bapostle, for you are called even with that same calling with which he was called." (verse 9)

[Just_A_Guy]

And D&C 18 was later deemed retroactively to cover Martin Harris, I believe. If I remember correctly, Martin's name was originally excluded from the revelation because he had been expressing concerns to Joseph Smith about recouping his investment in the printing of the Book of Mormon; and so he was sort of "on the outs" with the Lord at that point in time. After his repentance he was permitted to take part in the actual selection and ordination of the Twelve.

[mordorbund]

Don't forget that when Joseph received the Melchizedek Priesthood, he also received keys. In the Who's Who list for the Great Sacrament meeting, Peter, James and John are mentioned with a prompt as to why they're included:

And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;

Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom.

When the Church was organized, Joseph and Oliver were referred to as apostles. I think apostle in this sense is referring to a special gift - in the same sense that there are prophets and there are Prophets, but we probably don't need to get into that.