Of Harps And Heresy

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Alot of us are familiar with the concept that those in heaven recline on perfectly puffy clouds and strum dreamily on harps with glistening strings. I never really had the chance to know what others think we'll do in heaven (provided we get there).

For the purpose of this thread, I guess heaven can mean "being with God" whether we're coming from an LDS or non-LDS standpoint. For example, any Lutherans here? If so, what do Lutherans think their time will be occupied doing in heaven? Methodists? Roman Catholics? Baptists?

I'm not so much interested in interpretation of scripture, but moreso in what people think personally. Any thoughts?

[pushka]

Heaven to me would be the ability to sleep soundly, without nightmares!! If that was to happen to me when I died, I would be more than happy...I can't imagine anything else.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Heaven to me would be the ability to sleep soundly, without nightmares!! If that was to happen to me when I died, I would be more than happy...I can't imagine anything else.

I've often realized my hopes for the future are quite simple also...not being sick anymore, not being tired or hungry, etc... That in itself will be wonderful, I think. :)

[shanstress70]

I can't really classify myself as any certain religion, as I'm still searching. But I can tell you what I think of when I imagine heaven...

I think of a place where you pretty much do whatever you want... but there will be no desire to do 'bad' things. No one will be out to harm anyone. Just a place to learn all that we have not been able to, hang out, and spend time with loved ones. And I do believe that we will be able to hang out with our families that we are in now... although my son won't be in mine and my husband's house. He and his wife will be in a house in the same neighborhood. And we can go hang out with God and Jesus whenever we'd like to. Oh yeah, and there will be animals too! (I sometimes joke with my husband about the retired racing greyhound I had that I had to get rid of bc he snapped at my then one year old. I LOVED that dog and still cry when I think about him. He's living with another loving family now, but I tell my husband that our family is 'sealed' to 'Stan' and that he'll be with us in heaven. Don't get offended... just messin' around!)

I believe that there will be one big common heaven... no different levels... we have enough of classes and labels on this earth!

I do not believe that there will be 'streets of gold' as I heard in a funeral service a few weeks ago. (I think I shared that here.) I don't think we will care about such material things. The beauty of nature will be sufficient... to me, that trumps everything else anyway. Picture aurora borealis ten-fold, canyons that make the grand canyon look like foothills, huge lush trees everywhere, the greenest rainforests (with no mosquitoes), miles and miles of prairie, and flowers so bright you can't even imagine.

Oh, but there will be movie theaters! :)

And yes, no sickness.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I can't really classify myself as any certain religion, as I'm still searching. But I can tell you what I think of when I imagine heaven...

I have to say I like your ideas. And as I'm pursuing a career in script writing/producing/directing...just say you know me and you can get into my movie theatre for free...with Stan :)

[shanstress70]

Sounds good... you made me realize that I missed one thing about heaven... dogs will be allowed in the movie theaters AND no one will have the slightest urge to kick the back of your seat!

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Sounds good... you made me realize that I missed one thing about heaven... dogs will be allowed in the movie theaters AND no one will have the slightest urge to kick the back of your seat!

Mwahahahahahaha, classic!

[jackbeckman]

<div class='quotemain'>

Sounds good... you made me realize that I missed one thing about heaven... dogs will be allowed in the movie theaters AND no one will have the slightest urge to kick the back of your seat!

Mwahahahahahaha, classic!

ok, so what about the harps and heresy? Isn't that the topic of this thread? I want harps! You can keep the heresy.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

ok, so what about the harps and heresy? Isn't that the topic of this thread? I want harps! You can keep the heresy.

I never thought I'd look very flattering plucking harpstrings with head gently inclined forever. Bleh!

[prisonchaplain]

Alot of us are familiar with the concept that those in heaven recline on perfectly puffy clouds and strum dreamily on harps with glistening strings. I never really had the chance to know what others think we'll do in heaven (provided we get there).

For the purpose of this thread, I guess heaven can mean "being with God" whether we're coming from an LDS or non-LDS standpoint. For example, any Lutherans here? If so, what do Lutherans think their time will be occupied doing in heaven? Methodists? Roman Catholics? Baptists?

I'm not so much interested in interpretation of scripture, but moreso in what people think personally. Any thoughts?

It's a big question mark, but here are some thoughts:

1. We'll have glorified bodies, probably like Jesus has post-resurrection.

2. We'll rule and reign with Christ. How? Fun speculation here.

3. We'll judge angels.

4. The place Christ is preparing has been in the making for 2000 years. It only took six days to make earth--which was much more wonderful than it is now.

5. We'll experience most natural processes directly, rather than via nature. For example, we'll not need the sun or moon, because the light of God will directly illumine heaven.

6. This one's a bit speculative, but I would guess that every breath we breathe will be like the first "breath of life" God breathed into Adam & Eve.

7. Imagine being able to relate to God and each other without second-guessing, interpreting, worrying about motives, etc.!

8. We'll work, and our work will be richly meaningful.

I'll spare everyone the bandwith reading of posting a lesson I did on this topic. B)

[Guest ApostleKnight]

1. We'll have glorified bodies, probably like Jesus has post-resurrection.

2. We'll rule and reign with Christ. How? Fun speculation here.

3. We'll judge angels.

4. The place Christ is preparing has been in the making for 2000 years. It only took six days to make earth--which was much more wonderful than it is now.

5. We'll experience most natural processes directly, rather than via nature. For example, we'll not need the sun or moon, because the light of God will directly illumine heaven.

6. This one's a bit speculative, but I would guess that every breath we breathe will be like the first "breath of life" God breathed into Adam & Eve.

7. Imagine being able to relate to God and each other without second-guessing, interpreting, worrying about motives, etc.!

8. We'll work, and our work will be richly meaningful.

PC, I can't argue with any single thing you listed. :) I'm actually impressed with your eloquent simplicity, and the beautiful ideas you shared. This is what I think, even coming from different theological backgrounds. I guess the journey is where we have different ideas. At least we both look forward to the same thing. :) Thanks for the post.

[jackbeckman]

<div class='quotemain'>

1. We'll have glorified bodies, probably like Jesus has post-resurrection.

2. We'll rule and reign with Christ. How? Fun speculation here.

3. We'll judge angels.

4. The place Christ is preparing has been in the making for 2000 years. It only took six days to make earth--which was much more wonderful than it is now.

5. We'll experience most natural processes directly, rather than via nature. For example, we'll not need the sun or moon, because the light of God will directly illumine heaven.

6. This one's a bit speculative, but I would guess that every breath we breathe will be like the first "breath of life" God breathed into Adam & Eve.

7. Imagine being able to relate to God and each other without second-guessing, interpreting, worrying about motives, etc.!

8. We'll work, and our work will be richly meaningful.

PC, I can't argue with any single thing you listed. :) I'm actually impressed with your eloquent simplicity, and the beautiful ideas you shared. This is what I think, even coming from different theological backgrounds. I guess the journey is where we have different ideas. At least we both look forward to the same thing. :) Thanks for the post.

Ahem!

Corrections are in order......according to LDS Doctrine.

2. Rule and reign with Christ? He has His Kingdom, we will have ours. We can enjoy His perfect presence based on His judgement of our actions or inactions in pursuit of His Gospel plan. The Plan of Salvation is available to all who partake of His saving ordinances from His Church.

3. We'll judge angels? No, Christ is the Judge. They will have their reward according to His perfect judgement. We will have our own work to do.

4. Earth was created in six time periods. We don't know how long those periods were, but we are told that one day is like a thousand years in Heavenly reckoning. Since creation the Plan has been in place to bring His children back to His Presence, according to their obedience to the Plan. 2000 years? Just a blip in time in the eternities.

8. Work? You better believe it! Work to bring to pass His Kingdom and its Glory.

[LionHeart]

One thing that I think about when I think about the afterlife is the fact that we will have an eternity in front of us. What in the world will we do with our time? It seems like we would eventually run out of things to do. The only thing I can imagine is that we will be in an eternal pursuit of knowledge and perfection. I believe that Jesus is perfect so far as this world is concerned however he still has an eternity of progression ahead of him. Some may scream "Blasphemy, who are you to say that He has more progress to make?" But I say who are we to say that he hasn't?

"The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits." (Joseph Smith Jun.)

Whenever one of us succeeds in this life, it adds to the glory of God in Heaven. I believe that when we leave this life, if we have made the grade, we will assist in the "winding up scene" of this world and then we will go on to govern our own world; with the guidance of our Heavenly Father of course.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Corrections are in order......according to LDS Doctrine.

2. Rule and reign with Christ? He has His Kingdom, we will have ours. We can enjoy His perfect presence based on His judgement of our actions or inactions in pursuit of His Gospel plan. The Plan of Salvation is available to all who partake of His saving ordinances from His Church.

Check out Revelations 3:21 bro. You're getting caught up in semantics. I didn't get into how we'll rule with Christ in his throne, of course there are theological differences there between LDS and non-LDS views. I was talking about the big picture.

3. We'll judge angels? No, Christ is the Judge. They will have their reward according to His perfect judgement. We will have our own work to do.

Well, an angel in my mind can either be a spirit or a resurrected being. So if we are going to have our own kingdom, that might include angels of either sort I mentioned, and we being rulers would certainly have the right to judge them. Again, big picture.

4. Earth was created in six time periods. We don't know how long those periods were, but we are told that one day is like a thousand years in Heavenly reckoning.

The thousand years being earth years, which was a time period that only came into being after earth was created...so the time periods spoken of as days in the creation account can't have been 1,000 years since mortals didn't yet reckon time (not to mention the belief that prior to the Fall of Adam, earth was near Kolob and time was reckoned differently there, and after the Fall the earth was cast down to its present location out of God's presence).

2000 years? Just a blip in time in the eternities.

Perhaps, but look what the LDS church has blossomed into since just 1830.

All in all I agree with you WC, but on the whole--the core concepts--I feel I also agree largely with PC. It's the details that differ, but I've learned that if I always sweat the details I have to shower a lot.

Whenever one of us succeeds in this life, it adds to the glory of God in Heaven. I believe that when we leave this life, if we have made the grade, we will assist in the "winding up scene" of this world and then we will go on to govern our own world; with the guidance of our Heavenly Father of course.

I have thought about this myself. While I have no official doctrine to back it up I think similarly. Oh, and I'll take your advice about splinters and gnawing hands off. Hahaha, classic. :)

[jackbeckman]

<div class='quotemain'>

Corrections are in order......according to LDS Doctrine.

2. Rule and reign with Christ? He has His Kingdom, we will have ours. We can enjoy His perfect presence based on His judgement of our actions or inactions in pursuit of His Gospel plan. The Plan of Salvation is available to all who partake of His saving ordinances from His Church.

Check out Revelations 3:21 bro. You're getting caught up in semantics. I didn't get into how we'll rule with Christ in his throne, of course there are theological differences there between LDS and non-LDS views. I was talking about the big picture.

3. We'll judge angels? No, Christ is the Judge. They will have their reward according to His perfect judgement. We will have our own work to do.

Well, an angel in my mind can either be a spirit or a resurrected being. So if we are going to have our own kingdom, that might include angels of either sort I mentioned, and we being rulers would certainly have the right to judge them. Again, big picture.

It's the details that make the difference. It's the details that differentiate the LDS Church and others. It's the details that make the Plan of Salvation work.

Start showering more.

4. Earth was created in six time periods. We don't know how long those periods were, but we are told that one day is like a thousand years in Heavenly reckoning.

The thousand years being earth years, which was a time period that only came into being after earth was created...so the time periods spoken of as days in the creation account can't have been 1,000 years since mortals didn't yet reckon time (not to mention the belief that prior to the Fall of Adam, earth was near Kolob and time was reckoned differently there, and after the Fall the earth was cast down to its present location out of God's presence).

2000 years? Just a blip in time in the eternities.

Perhaps, but look what the LDS church has blossomed into since just 1830.

All in all I agree with you WC, but on the whole--the core concepts--I feel I also agree largely with PC. It's the details that differ, but I've learned that if I always sweat the details I have to shower a lot.

Whenever one of us succeeds in this life, it adds to the glory of God in Heaven. I believe that when we leave this life, if we have made the grade, we will assist in the "winding up scene" of this world and then we will go on to govern our own world; with the guidance of our Heavenly Father of course.

I have thought about this myself. While I have no official doctrine to back it up I think similarly. Oh, and I'll take your advice about splinters and gnawing hands off. Hahaha, classic. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Ahem!

Corrections are in order......according to LDS Doctrine.

2. Rule and reign with Christ? He has His Kingdom, we will have ours. We can enjoy His perfect presence based on His judgement of our actions or inactions in pursuit of His Gospel plan. The Plan of Salvation is available to all who partake of His saving ordinances from His Church.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. KJV

3. We'll judge angels? No, Christ is the Judge. They will have their reward according to His perfect judgement. We will have our own work to do.

1 Cor 6:3: 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

KJV

4. Earth was created in six time periods. We don't know how long those periods were, but we are told that one day is like a thousand years in Heavenly reckoning. Since creation the Plan has been in place to bring His children back to His Presence, according to their obedience to the Plan. 2000 years? Just a blip in time in the eternities.

Genesis speaks of 6 days. One possible understanding is that the days are periods of time. I wasn't aware that the LDS took that as an official interpretation. Regardless, I doubt anyone will be complaining about our new residence.

[Christos]

To be in Heaven would be to be like the Cherubim.

Always praising God. We serve no other purpose and the same should be on Earth.

I don't believe in Heaven as clouds and harps (I don't know who invented that idea) but I believe it to be the very place of Godliness. The place the Earth once was. The very being with God.

If Hell is seperation from God, Heaven is intimacy.

I believe Heaven to be as the New Jerusalem in Revelations 21, partly because I believe that to be true but also because I have had a vision that is remarkoubly similar.

[Traveler]

To be in Heaven would be to be like the Cherubim.

Always praising God. We serve no other purpose and the same should be on Earth.

Just so everybody knows where I stand. I do not think that G-d really created us just so we would praise him. I do not think he needs our praise or that our praise makes any difference what-so-ever to his kingship or kingdom. The only reason he commands us to praise him is for our benefit - not his.

I think G-d had something more important (to him) than our praising him in mind and that is the reason he was willing to sacrifice so much for our benefit. Otherwise his sacrifice seem somewhat stupid in that he could create praisers with much less effort and I do not think him stupid.

Personally I think G-d plans that we will behave ourselves in the same manner that he behaves himself as a divine servant.

The Traveler

[shanstress70]

Personally I think G-d plans that we will behave ourselves in the same manner that he behaves himself as a divine servant.

I'm reading some weird stuff today! Perhaps I should not be slacking off at work. God acts as a servant?

[Ray]

God acts as a servant?

Yes. Or in other words, God serves us and is the most ultimate servant that there is and will be in the universe, because who else but God can do all the things God does for us and everybody else?

And btw, everybody with a business, whether or not it's "their own" business, is also in business to serve, because without people to do those things for we would all be out of a job.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

God acts as a servant?

And btw, everybody with a business, whether or not it's "their own" business, is also in business to serve, because without people to do those things for we would all be out of a job.

Yes, I realize that second part. I am a 'servant' to my company.

The part about God being a servant was just weird to me, but I guess it makes sense. Thanks, Ray.

[ALatterDaySaint]

Consider this...

He that is ordained of God and sent forth, the same is appointed to be the greatest, notwithstanding he is the least and the servant of all. D&C 50:23

This tells me that we are all servants with and of the Great Servant who is God Almighty.

"For this is the work and the glory of God, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man"

[Christos]

Everything that God created was for his pleasure.

Everything from God is good.

Why is it good? Because it gives him pleasure.

It is true that it isn't for God's benefit, God doesn't need any benefit, he lacks nothing.

I think the "God does not serve us" bit is mis-interpreted.

Jesus is both the servant of the Father and of Man. As Jesus is God, part of the most holy trinity and the only begotton Son of God he is also the son of Man because he was born through Mary.

Jesus serves mankind because of his perfect sacrafice, he became a victim of evil for us. A victim that brought victory over death.

If it wasn't for the sending of the Son, we wouldn't be granted eternal life.

However, we musn't think of serving in the sense of a king in a castle and his lowly servants, God is greater than we will ever be. The weakness of God is stronger than the strongest strength of Man.

We are servants of Christ. We work by the great commission.

God is not our servant BUT he became as man for man. He became incarnate of his own creation to serve his creation.

What a great God we serve!

As for the wishing to praise thing, of course we will want to praise God, we will be so struck with awe that it will be impossible not to.

I am certain that the very moment I am in the presence of the almighty, my knees will bend before me and I will be on the floor, overwhelmed with awe. My mouth will not be able to utter the amount of praises, nor at the right magnitute for me to proclaim my praise to the almighty.

I don't know if it will happen but we may also get a huge feeling of conviction of our sins and our tresspasses, though they will have passed away with our corruptible bodies (1 Corinthians 15:52) we might still bear the memory of our transgressions.

I only get a taste of this on Earth, image what it will be like once the veil has been removed and we will see the father before us in the great throne room.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

The weakness of God is stronger than the strongest strength of Man.

A simple statement but a great truth. I liked the way you phrased it.

Just so everybody knows where I stand. I do not think that G-d really created us just so we would praise him. I do not think he needs our praise or that our praise makes any difference what-so-ever to his kingship or kingdom...Otherwise his sacrifice seem somewhat stupid in that he could create praisers with much less effort and I do not think him stupid.

Bee-eye-en-gee-oh, and bingo was his name-oh. :) Nail on the head, bullseye, checkmate, et al.

[Traveler]

However, we musn't think of serving in the sense of a king in a castle and his lowly servants, God is greater than we will ever be. The weakness of God is stronger than the strongest strength of Man.

Are we to believe G-d is greater than we will ever be - because he does not have the power to do such a thing or because he is not smart enough to do such a thing - or is G-d selfish and cannot allow greatness like his to exist anywhere else? Or perhaps such greatness is not really a good thing?

My friend - I submit that even the creation was a great act of love and service and that everything G-d has done is less for him (who needs nothing) including his pleasure, than it was a divine act of service and love for our benefit. I also submit that when we learn to love and serve as he; that he will still love and serve us and welcome us to his side as his friends and will withhold nothing of his greatness from us. And this is the purpose for which he created us and the greatest praise that we or anyone could ever give him. Emulation is the greatest of all possible praise.

The Traveler