Anyone notice how interesting Revelation 14 is?

[LDSChristian]

Revelation 14

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Yes that's talking about Moroni delivering the Golden Plates. I find it interesting that John would write "having the everlasting gospel" while he is one of the ones that wrote one of the four gospels in the Bible. He, a writer of one of the 4 gospels, states he saw the everlasting gospel and yet did not acknowledge it as his own, Matthew's, Mark's, or Luke's gospel. If he were referring to his own or fellow apostles Matthew, Mark, or Luke's there would have been no need for mystery of what the everlasting gospel is. I've always thought was neat.

[MarginOfError]

It's a bit interesting, but less so when you consider the likelihood that the Revelation was written before the Gospel (perhaps by as many as 20-30 years).

Book of Revelation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gospel of John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[pam]

As I like quotes..here are some from a couple of Prophets and an Apostle:

Gordon B. Hinckley

That angel has come. His name is Moroni. His is a voice speaking from the dust, bringing another witness of the living reality of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have not as yet carried the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. But we have made great strides. We have gone wherever we are permitted to go. God is at the helm and doors will be opened by His power according to His divine will. Of that I am confident. Of that I am certain.

I cannot understand those of small vision, who regard this work as limited and provincial. They have no expanding view of it. As certainly as there is an Almighty Father in Heaven, as surely as there is His Son, our Divine Redeemer, so certainly is this work destined to reach out to people everywhere. (“Stay the Course—Keep the Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1995, 70–71)

Mark E. Petersen

Moroni fulfilled two biblical prophecies in coming to Joseph Smith: the fourteenth chapter of Revelation and the twenty-ninth chapter of Isaiah. He did come to earth as an angel. He did deliver to Joseph Smith the golden record which had been prepared under the direction of Almighty God. It is a new witness for the Lord Jesus Christ; it declares, as does the Bible, that Jesus of Nazareth indeed is the Son of God, our Savior and Redeemer. That book is available to all mankind. A million copies are published each year, in more than a score of languages.

So, again, we testify that the Book of Mormon is true. It is the word of Almighty God, restored in this day by angelic ministry and by the direction of God himself. We testify that Moroni came as an angel on September 21 , 1823, revealing his ancient record and that he did so as a servant of Jesus Christ. (“The Angel Moroni Came!” Ensign, Nov. 1983, 31)

Howard W. Hunter

We testify to all the world that heavenly ministers have already appeared in our age, bringing authority from heaven and restoring truths lost through corrupted teachings and practices. God has spoken anew and continues to provide guidance for all his children through a living prophet today. We declare that he, as promised, is with his servants always and directs the affairs of his Church throughout the world. As in times past, revelation directs missionary labors, the building of temples, the calling of priesthood officers, and warns against the evils of society that may deny salvation to our Father’s children. (“No Man Shall Add to or Take Away,” Ensign, May 1981, 65)

[Traveler]

Revelation 14

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Yes that's talking about Moroni delivering the Golden Plates. I find it interesting that John would write "having the everlasting gospel" while he is one of the ones that wrote one of the four gospels in the Bible. He, a writer of one of the 4 gospels, states he saw the everlasting gospel and yet did not acknowledge it as his own, Matthew's, Mark's, or Luke's gospel. If he were referring to his own or fellow apostles Matthew, Mark, or Luke's there would have been no need for mystery of what the everlasting gospel is. I've always thought was neat.

Interesting - any ideas concerning the other 2 angles?

The Traveler

[LDSChristian]

Interesting - any ideas concerning the other 2 angles?

The Traveler

There's quite a bit regarding angels in Revelation. Can you give chapters and verses?

Edited February 7, 2011 by LDSChristian

[LDSChristian]

Interesting - any ideas concerning the other 2 angles?

The Traveler

Never mind. You're referring to the next couple of verses I believe.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

I don't think verse 8 is actually referring to a city, but the evils of men falling when Christ returns. Verse 9 seems to be an angel acknowledging what those that are against Christ will obtain for being against Him to separate them from the good. This is what I get out of these verses:

Moroni: the angel of restoration (referring to telling of the Golden Plates which would be translated into the Book of Mormon restoring the everlasting gospel)

2nd Angel: the angel of triumph (announcing that Babylon will fall meaning good will win and evil will be beaten)

3rd Angel: the angel of warning (warning people what would happen if they worship the "beast"/Satan)

[Rhi_Bran_y_Hud]

Revelation 14

... he saw the everlasting gospel and yet did not acknowledge it as his own, Matthew's, Mark's, or Luke's gospel. If he were referring to his own or fellow apostles Matthew, Mark, or Luke's ...

I think you misunderstand how the word "gospel" is used in the NT. "Gospel" refers to the message of the coming kingdom, reconciliation with God, the death and resurrection of Christ, and so on. It does not refer to any particular record that anyone has written. It is our own convention to call Matt., Mark, Luke and John the "Gospels," but remember that the full title is "The Gospel According to ..." In fact, in Greek, they didn't even use the word "Gospel," but simply labeled them as "According to Matthew," or "According to John."

Yes, the Gospel is everlasting, but it does not here refer to a book. Instead, the Gospel is contained in the very words the angel is saying, preaching at that moment in the text. I do not think you can use this to refer to the Book of Mormon (if you were), or anything like that. Also, it is "the" everlasting Gospel, not "a" or "a new," but only "the," that is the one we already know.

[bytor2112]

I do not think you can use this to refer to the Book of Mormon (if you were), or anything like that

Unless I am somehow misreading Elder Petersen's quote (below)....it seems that a late Apostle is disagreeing with you.

Mark E. Petersen

Moroni fulfilled two biblical prophecies in coming to Joseph Smith: the fourteenth chapter of Revelation and the twenty-ninth chapter of Isaiah. He did come to earth as an angel. He did deliver to Joseph Smith the golden record which had been prepared under the direction of Almighty God. It is a new witness for the Lord Jesus Christ; it declares, as does the Bible, that Jesus of Nazareth indeed is the Son of God, our Savior and Redeemer. That book is available to all mankind. A million copies are published each year, in more than a score of languages.

[LDSChristian]

I think you misunderstand how the word "gospel" is used in the NT. "Gospel" refers to the message of the coming kingdom, reconciliation with God, the death and resurrection of Christ, and so on. It does not refer to any particular record that anyone has written. It is our own convention to call Matt., Mark, Luke and John the "Gospels," but remember that the full title is "The Gospel According to ..." In fact, in Greek, they didn't even use the word "Gospel," but simply labeled them as "According to Matthew," or "According to John."

Yes, the Gospel is everlasting, but it does not here refer to a book. Instead, the Gospel is contained in the very words the angel is saying, preaching at that moment in the text. I do not think you can use this to refer to the Book of Mormon (if you were), or anything like that. Also, it is "the" everlasting Gospel, not "a" or "a new," but only "the," that is the one we already know.

This verse is completely talking Moroni and the Golden Plates/Book of Mormon. You missed the part about the angel having the everlasting gospel. That angel is Moroni and the everlasting gospel is the Book of Mormon.

[Backroads]

This verse is completely talking Moroni and the Golden Plates/Book of Mormon. You missed the part about the angel having the everlasting gospel. That angel is Moroni and the everlasting gospel is the Book of Mormon.

Technically, the everlasting gospel is what would be in the Book of Mormon, whatever is given by prophets.

[MarginOfError]

Also, since we're being difficult, taking "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth" and saying that it is the Book of Mormon and that is the only correct interpretation is a little forced.

All the scripture says is that the angel had the everlasting gospel. It doesn't say he had it in a book or on a tablet, or in a computer. Just that he had it. For all we know, he may have memorized it. I propose that a more accurate interpretation is that the everlasting gospel was taught to them that dwell on the earth through the Restoration, and Moroni was the agent that kicked off the process by leading Smith to the Golden Plates.

[Backroads]

I don't like the idea of all that God has said or ever will say being confined to a book; it defeats the term of "everlasting". The Book of Mormon logically CAN"T be the everlasting gospel because we still bother with modern-day prophets.

[Rhi_Bran_y_Hud]

"...it seems that a late Apostle is disagreeing with you." -bytor2112

"...You missed the part about the angel having the everlasting gospel. ...the everlasting gospel is the Book of Mormon." -LDSChristian

I have freedom under the blood of Jesus to disagree as well.

What in the text itself, or the surrounding context, would allow one to identify the angel? Or more importantly (this is the real issue between us I think), what would lead one to conclude that this angel is delivering a particular written book to mankind?

Rev 14:6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I will say it again: you are inserting our own modern day meaning of the phrase "a gospel" into the ancient text. When we say "a/the gospel" we are often (but not always) referring to one of the 4 books in the NT, or in your case, the Book of Mormon itself. Instead, you should read Rev. 14:6-7 on its own terms and then bring out the meaning.

In verse 6, the Greek word for gospel (euangelion) means a message, the good news, etc. Sure, it can be written down in a book, but the gospel, in and of itself, is not a book. Instead of being written down, this eternal gospel is to be "preached," verbally. The Greek word is euangelion again, but now morphed into the verb: "euangelisai" (meaning: to preach the good news).

And then in verse 7 the angel actually does speak it out ("saying" = "legon" to speak, say, tell). He is now "saying" the very gospel which in verse 6 he was only yet "to preach." And the gospel is this very sentence: "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Indeed, it is an eternal Gospel! It is a sweet summary of the Gospel in a nutshell--it sounds just like "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," and "the greatest commandment is this: love the Lord your God..." That is all there really is to the Gospel! Let that be the sum total of what we preach!

Do you still think that when John writes "a gospel" he means "a book?" Or are you foisting our own modern day convention on him? Where in the NT does the word "gospel" ever refer to a book, and not the sweet spoken message of repentance, salvation and peace with God?

Why did I pull out my Greek dictionary? To show off? To shut you down? No! To encourage you to do your own homework (because I know I have still not convinced you)! To show you that you don't have to take anyone's word for it.

[LDSChristian]

"...it seems that a late Apostle is disagreeing with you." -bytor2112

"...You missed the part about the angel having the everlasting gospel. ...the everlasting gospel is the Book of Mormon." -LDSChristian

I have freedom under the blood of Jesus to disagree as well.

What in the text itself, or the surrounding context, would allow one to identify the angel? Or more importantly (this is the real issue between us I think), what would lead one to conclude that this angel is delivering a particular written book to mankind?

Rev 14:6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I will say it again: you are inserting our own modern day meaning of the phrase "a gospel" into the ancient text. When we say "a/the gospel" we are often (but not always) referring to one of the 4 books in the NT, or in your case, the Book of Mormon itself. Instead, you should read Rev. 14:6-7 on its own terms and then bring out the meaning.

In verse 6, the Greek word for gospel (euangelion) means a message, the good news, etc. Sure, it can be written down in a book, but the gospel, in and of itself, is not a book. Instead of being written down, this eternal gospel is to be "preached," verbally. The Greek word is euangelion again, but now morphed into the verb: "euangelisai" (meaning: to preach the good news).

And then in verse 7 the angel actually does speak it out ("saying" = "legon" to speak, say, tell). He is now "saying" the very gospel which in verse 6 he was only yet "to preach." And the gospel is this very sentence: "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Indeed, it is an eternal Gospel! It is a sweet summary of the Gospel in a nutshell--it sounds just like "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," and "the greatest commandment is this: love the Lord your God..." That is all there really is to the Gospel! Let that be the sum total of what we preach!

Do you still think that when John writes "a gospel" he means "a book?" Or are you foisting our own modern day convention on him? Where in the NT does the word "gospel" ever refer to a book, and not the sweet spoken message of repentance, salvation and peace with God?

Why did I pull out my Greek dictionary? To show off? To shut you down? No! To encourage you to do your own homework (because I know I have still not convinced you)! To show you that you don't have to take anyone's word for it.

"What in the text itself, or the surrounding context, would allow one to identify the angel?"

The text itself does not tell the angel's name. The fact that Moroni told Joseph of the Golden Plates, which contains the everlasting gospel, does tell that the angel spoken of in Revelation 14:6 is Moroni.

Book of Mormon introduction page:

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel."

Joseph Smith History:

34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

Yes, Revelation 14:6 is talking about the angel Moroni and the Golden Plates/Book of Mormon as the introduction page of the Book of Mormon states and also as Joseph said Moroni said it contains the everlasting gospel.

[Rhi_Bran_y_Hud]

Is the introduction page to the Book of Mormon inspired also? That's an honest question.

From the Joseph Smith History quote I do see how you make the connection to Rev. 14 based on the phrase "everlasting gospel," which occurs in both places. But I think you would need the History quote to directly reference Revelation in order to make your case airtight.

Just because the eternal gospel is mentioned in both places does not mean that it is described as being contained in, or transmitted through the same medium in both instances. In the History passage, yes, the everlasting gospel is contained in the Book of Mormon. But in Rev. 14:6-7 the everlasting gospel is contained and proclaimed in the actual words that the angel speaks himself, right then and there. This prophecy shouldn't have us looking for a written record necessarily, but a spoken message.

For the record, I'll offer two possible ways in which I think this could be fulfilled: either A) there really will be an angel who takes flight and circles the globe telling the gospel from the sky so that no one will have any more excuses [maybe, but I doubt it]. Or more likely: B) John is using similar language as when the lying spirit gave a false prophecy to all of Ahab's prophets [1 kings 22]. Perhaps in a similar way this good angel will put the gospel, instead of a lie, in the mouths of preachers (the 144,000?) who will go out in the height of Antichrist's reign, as that seems to be the time frame in view in the larger context of the passage (that is Rev. 13-14).

[LDSChristian]

Is the introduction page to the Book of Mormon inspired also? That's an honest question.

From the Joseph Smith History quote I do see how you make the connection to Rev. 14 based on the phrase "everlasting gospel," which occurs in both places. But I think you would need the History quote to directly reference Revelation in order to make your case airtight.

Just because the eternal gospel is mentioned in both places does not mean that it is described as being contained in, or transmitted through the same medium in both instances. In the History passage, yes, the everlasting gospel is contained in the Book of Mormon. But in Rev. 14:6-7 the everlasting gospel is contained and proclaimed in the actual words that the angel speaks himself, right then and there. This prophecy shouldn't have us looking for a written record necessarily, but a spoken message.

For the record, I'll offer two possible ways in which I think this could be fulfilled: either A) there really will be an angel who takes flight and circles the globe telling the gospel from the sky so that no one will have any more excuses [maybe, but I doubt it]. Or more likely: B) John is using similar language as when the lying spirit gave a false prophecy to all of Ahab's prophets [1 kings 22]. Perhaps in a similar way this good angel will put the gospel, instead of a lie, in the mouths of preachers (the 144,000?) who will go out in the height of Antichrist's reign, as that seems to be the time frame in view in the larger context of the passage (that is Rev. 13-14).

Right. Moroni tells of the Golden Plates which contains the everlasting gospel. What I've mentioned about this topic is very solid. Revelation 14:6, angel- Moroni; everlasting gospel- contents in the Golden Plates/Book of Mormon. Revelation 14:6 has been fulfilled by the angel Moroni.

[MarginOfError]

Well, it's one interpretation, LDSChristian, but it certainly isn't the only interpretation.

[bytor2112]

"...it seems that a late Apostle is disagreeing with you." -bytor2112

"...You missed the part about the angel having the everlasting gospel. ...the everlasting gospel is the Book of Mormon." -LDSChristian

I have freedom under the blood of Jesus to disagree as well.

What in the text itself, or the surrounding context, would allow one to identify the angel? Or more importantly (this is the real issue between us I think), what would lead one to conclude that this angel is delivering a particular written book to mankind?

Rev 14:6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I will say it again: you are inserting our own modern day meaning of the phrase "a gospel" into the ancient text. When we say "a/the gospel" we are often (but not always) referring to one of the 4 books in the NT, or in your case, the Book of Mormon itself. Instead, you should read Rev. 14:6-7 on its own terms and then bring out the meaning.

In verse 6, the Greek word for gospel (euangelion) means a message, the good news, etc. Sure, it can be written down in a book, but the gospel, in and of itself, is not a book. Instead of being written down, this eternal gospel is to be "preached," verbally. The Greek word is euangelion again, but now morphed into the verb: "euangelisai" (meaning: to preach the good news).

And then in verse 7 the angel actually does speak it out ("saying" = "legon" to speak, say, tell). He is now "saying" the very gospel which in verse 6 he was only yet "to preach." And the gospel is this very sentence: "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Indeed, it is an eternal Gospel! It is a sweet summary of the Gospel in a nutshell--it sounds just like "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," and "the greatest commandment is this: love the Lord your God..." That is all there really is to the Gospel! Let that be the sum total of what we preach!

Do you still think that when John writes "a gospel" he means "a book?" Or are you foisting our own modern day convention on him? Where in the NT does the word "gospel" ever refer to a book, and not the sweet spoken message of repentance, salvation and peace with God?

Why did I pull out my Greek dictionary? To show off? To shut you down? No! To encourage you to do your own homework (because I know I have still not convinced you)! To show you that you don't have to take anyone's word for it.

An awfully long response to my question....which was basically am I misreading what Elder Petersen concluded. But thanks anyway! I see that you list yourself as a Christian, rather than LDS, so your lengthy response makes sense.

My take? He is referring to Moroni and the restoration of Christ's Church to the earth....doesn't have to be the BOM.

[bytor2112]

Why did I pull out my Greek dictionary? To show off? To shut you down? No! To encourage you to do your own homework (because I know I have still not convinced you)! To show you that you don't have to take anyone's word for it.

Souns like your trying to convince yourself. The Holy Spirit teaches such sacred truths....no need for a greek dictionary.

[LDSChristian]

Souns like your trying to convince yourself. The Holy Spirit teaches such sacred truths....no need for a greek dictionary.

The Holy Ghost is the only dictionary we need. :)

I guess when you think about it, the Holy Ghost is like a dictionary. A dictionary tells you the meaning of words so you can understand things. The Holy Ghost tells you the meaning of what the scriptures say or if something is right or wrong so you can understand things.