Changes to chapter headings & footnotes on LDS.org

[Just_A_Guy]

Ever heard of a "black heart"?

Yes, but I've also heard of a "skin of blackness" or "dark skin" and have never seen that as anything other than a physical description.

Moreover, Joseph Smith had a (never implemented) plan to "lighten" the lamanites through (polygamous?) intermarriage between Mormon elders and Indian women. See, e.g., here. This implies that he, the translator, took the "darkened skin" passages in the BoM literally.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[skippy740]

Johann Friedrich Blumenbach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blumenbach's racial classification system

Blumenbach's five races.

Blumenbach divided the human species into five races in 1779, later founded on crania research (description of human skulls), and called them (1793/1795):

• the Caucasian race or white race
• the Mongolian or yellow race
• the Malayan or brown race
• the Ethiopian, or black race
• the American or red race.

Why is this important? Because Blumenbach's research and study came about as a major "medical breakthrough" in 1775 and completely changed the way that human beings referred to each other.

The only book of scripture that we have that was written after 1775... is the Doctrine and Covenants... and there is NO mention of the word "black" in relation to skin color in that book.

Kinda interesting, isn't it?

********************

As far as Brother Joseph having a plan to "lighten" the Lamanites, I only offer this:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/45732-racisim-scripture-7.html#post662487

“We respect and venerate” (the prophet), but “we do not believe that his personal views or utterances are revelations from God.”

Elder Charles W. Penrose, Millennial Star, 54:191

“Even the President of the Church has not always spoken under the direction of the Holy Ghost.”

Elder J. Reuben Clark, quoted in Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History, p. 82

“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation…Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.”

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 14:205

“The Lord uses imperfect people…He often allows their errors to stand uncorrected. He may have a purpose in doing so, such as to teach us that religious truth comes forth “line upon line, precept upon precept” in a process of sifting and winnowing similar to the one I know so well in science.”

Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, p. 47

“We are all liable to error; are subject, more or less, to the errors incident to the human family. We would be pleased to get along without these errors, and many may think that a man in my standing ought to be perfect; no such thing.”

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:212

“Sometimes traditions, customs, social practices, and personal preferences of individual Church members may, through repeated or common usage be misconstrued as Church procedures or policies. Occasionally, such traditions, customs and practices may even be regarded by some as eternal principles.”

Elder Ronald Poelman, 1984 General Conference

“I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions.”

Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 331

[Timpman]

bcspace provided information that leaves no doubt. You need to give up, Skippy. I respectively say you are simply wrong on this issue and you are really reaching to explain your position at this point. That doesn't mean our black/African American brothers and sisters won't join the Church. Heck, the stories in the BoM are only about the Lamanites/Native Americans, anyway.

[NeuroTypical]

* Creationism vs. evolution

* Liberal vs. conservative

* Love the Boy Scouts vs. hate Boy Scouts

* CleanShavenWhiteShirtites vs. ColaAndHerbalTeaDrinkerites

* This issue in this thread

[My list of highly divisive issues that mormons often find themselves passionately contending against other mormons, and yet still can find each other in the celestial room at the temple. Dang, I'm sure glad God doesn't mandate that we have to be right and in lockstep on these issues.]

[skippy740]

I will now "bow out" of this discussion. I will leave the thread with this thought:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie said (of the 1978 revelation):

We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past.

We aren't just "doing something different" by allowing all worthy males to hold the priesthood. I believe that we need to search out what this flood of intelligence is... because without it, we have simply "changed policies" without the doctrinal understanding as to why. Without it, the change of policy can be interpreted as "being politically correct at a convenient time" instead of a fundamental shift in the way we understand the scriptures and the doctrines of the church.

That is my belief.

[Timpman]

Loudmouth, I wouldn't be concerned if it were limited to some members believing this stuff, but there's an active campaign to disseminate it to investigators.

[skippy740]

I was going to "bow out", but this was posted right before.

I will suggest one thought: The church does not pay for traveling expenses for a speaker to travel throughout the US to promote false doctrines.

[Timpman]

I will suggest one thought: The church does not pay for traveling expenses for a speaker to travel throughout the US to promote false doctrines.

Honestly, that does throw me off. I don't know what to say now.

[skippy740]

This occured to me to mention while I was in the shower this morning. The reason I didn't come right out to mention it up front is because the message needs to stand on its own. You'll notice that it is the last thing mentioned after everything else I've mentioned. The message must stand on its own.

[Vort]

Johann Friedrich Blumenbach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blumenbach's racial classification system

Blumenbach's five races.

Blumenbach divided the human species into five races in 1779, later founded on crania research (description of human skulls), and called them (1793/1795):

• the Caucasian race or white race
• the Mongolian or yellow race
• the Malayan or brown race
• the Ethiopian, or black race
• the American or red race.

Why is this important? Because Blumenbach's research and study came about as a major "medical breakthrough" in 1775 and completely changed the way that human beings referred to each other.

Is your point that the classification scheme is bogus, and that this bogus thinking changed ideas about race? Because I would point out that African slavery by European powers greatly predates 1775. Seems to me that the racial classifications formalized what was already widely believed among the European intelligentsia.

[Just_A_Guy]

Why is this important? Because Blumenbach's research and study came about as a major "medical breakthrough" in 1775 and completely changed the way that human beings referred to each other.

The only book of scripture that we have that was written after 1775... is the Doctrine and Covenants... and there is NO mention of the word "black" in relation to skin color in that book.

Kinda interesting, isn't it?

Interesting in its own right, but a red herring in the current discussion. The BoM was translated well after 1775. The translation is naturally going to reflect the ordinary English usage of 1830 (as opposed to, say, ordinary Celtish of AD 421). I've already shown what Joseph Smith thought it meant. Granted, he wasn't perfect; but barring spiritual revelation (which I personally have not received, and which I frankly wonder if Perkins has truly received given his apparently misleading arguments elsewhere) Smith still remains the supreme English-speaking authority on the original intent of the Book of Mormon.

Moreover, even if we accept your argument, it proves too much. For your reading also pretty much de-claws such aggressively anti-racist Book of Mormon passages as 2 Nephi 26:33 ("and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white . . .") and Jacob 3:9 ("Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . . .")

. . . instead of a fundamental shift in the way we understand the scriptures and the doctrines of the church. . . .

I fear this is a significant understatement of what Perkins and his ilk are attempting to do. It smacks of rewriting the scriptures themselves.

I will suggest one thought: The church does not pay for traveling expenses for a speaker to travel throughout the US to promote false doctrines.

That's a dangerous argument to make considering that Randy Bott of BYU remains on the Church payroll, and that the Church paid for the authorship of the CES manuals with which you disagree and continues to finance their publication and distribution.

And frankly, that was another thing that bugged me about Perkins' presentation--his insistence on calling on missionaries among the crowd to read his carefully-selected scriptural passages. As if he's trying to put the imprimatur of the Church on his own ideas.

Again, I respect what you and Bro. Perkins are trying to do, but this wink-wink-nudge-nudge-"The Church really supports me, they're just not allowed to openly say it yet" schtick is (forgive my bluntness) the stuff of which apostasy is made.

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