It's Official: There Was Nothing Wrong with Your Toyota

[Just_A_Guy]

Story here.

Now that the GM IPO is a done deal and the feds are no longer in the auto business--no further need for the DOT to keep slandering a competitor's product.

[mightynancy]

I <3 my Corolla

[slamjet]

Now that the GM IPO is a done deal and the feds are no longer in the auto business--no further need for the DOT to keep slandering a competitor's product.

I so wish you were kidding

[Saldrin]

Doesn't surprise me.

[GeneC]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25toyota.html

Toyota to Recall Over 2 Million Vehicles for Gas Pedal Flaws

By NICK BUNKLEY

Published: February 24, 2011

DETROIT — Floor mats and accelerators continue to plague Toyota.

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Toyota said on Thursday that it was recalling another 2.17 million vehicles to fix problems that could cause their accelerator pedals to become stuck, a setback in its efforts to rebound from the uncertainty that swirled around the car maker last year.

Toyota initiated two new recalls on Thursday, covering about 769,000 sport utility vehicles and 20,000 Lexus sedans, and added nearly 1.4 million vehicles to its November 2009 recall related to what Toyota called “floor mat entrapment.” . . . . . . .

[pam]

The answer to all of this. Just drive a Nissan.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25toyota.html

Toyota to Recall Over 2 Million Vehicles for Gas Pedal Flaws

By NICK BUNKLEY

Published: February 24, 2011

DETROIT — Floor mats and accelerators continue to plague Toyota.

Add to Portfolio

Toyota said on Thursday that it was recalling another 2.17 million vehicles to fix problems that could cause their accelerator pedals to become stuck, a setback in its efforts to rebound from the uncertainty that swirled around the car maker last year.

Toyota initiated two new recalls on Thursday, covering about 769,000 sport utility vehicles and 20,000 Lexus sedans, and added nearly 1.4 million vehicles to its November 2009 recall related to what Toyota called “floor mat entrapment.” . . . . . . .

Thanks for posting this. You're right, there was a sort of whip lash in the news as this massive recall followed the news that Toyota was completely in the clear regarding design flaws that cause an accelerator pedal to stick. Right wingers quick to seize upon the first news item as an exhoneration of Toyota and an ongoing pattern of the Obama administration bullying individual businesses. They had to do some quick backpedaling when this most recent story came out. The truth is, Toyota's conduct was ignominious no matter what the outcome. They were fined $1.5 million by DOT because of their unlawful delay in reporting a possible safety concern and they deserved that penalty.

That's why I stick with Ford.

[Just_A_Guy]

With all due respect, St. Michael, I've experienced the accelerator/floor mat issue myself in two separate Ford vehicles. (Granted, one of them was a 1976 pickup; but the other was mid-nineties model.) Floor mats slip--that's just their nature--and if the driver can't be bothered to make sure that they're properly tucked under the gas pedal (or properly engaged with whatever hook the manufacturer installed) - that isn't the manufacturer's fault.

Also - $1.5 million is peanuts. That was a "we can't find anything really wrong with you but we need to save face and make it look like there was something there; so we'll give you a teeny slap on the wrist if you agree not to fight us" maneuver--I see prosecutors do the same thing routinely.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

With all due respect, St. Michael, I've experienced the accelerator/floor mat issue myself in two separate Ford vehicles. (Granted, one of them was a 1976 pickup; but the other was mid-nineties model.) Floor mats slip--that's just their nature--and if the driver can't be bothered to make sure that they're properly tucked under the gas pedal (or properly engaged with whatever hook the manufacturer installed) - that isn't the manufacturer's fault.

Also - $1.5 million is peanuts. That was a "we can't find anything really wrong with you but we need to save face and make it look like there was something there; so we'll give you a teeny slap on the wrist if you agree not to fight us" maneuver--I see prosecutors do the same thing routinely.

Clearly you are trying to defend the indefensible. Toyota's delay in reporting a possible safety problem was unlawful and the fine levied was not only appropriate, but worth ten times as much in bad publicity. This wasn't a government agency out to get Toyota, it was a government agency doing what its supposed to do, protect the public. BTW, we're not talking about floor mats, we're talking about accelerator pedals that stick...not a floor mat issue.

Toyota was aware of the problem and said nothing. That's why they got fined. Now if we say that every time a government agency levies a fine, they are doing so based on an agenda, where does that end? Who determines what fines are legitimate and what fines are politically motivated? Put another way, do we assume that because we have an immature, inexperienced child-president who is ideologically bent on destroying America as we know it, that means that every action under the leadership of his administration is suspect? Isn't even a broken clock right twice a day?

[Canuck Mormon]

Let me fix that for you:

It's Official: There Was Nothing (ELECTRONIC) Wrong with Your Toyota (GAS PEDAL). THEY WILL STILL STICK UNLESS THEY ARE FIXED.

That's better, and give it up with the whole "GM is owned by the government so they caused this Toyota with hunt". That's a crock and intelligent people know it.

Toyota screwed up and got caught. End of story. Did the media go overboard? Yep. Did the government tell them to because they had a stake in GM? Nope. Who was the biggest benefactor of this mess? GM? Nope, it was Honda. Honda had the biggest percentage of old Toyota buyers buy Hondas. Hmmm?? But the government caused it to help GM. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Just_A_Guy]

Clearly you are trying to defend the indefensible. Toyota's delay in reporting a possible safety problem was unlawful and the fine levied was not only appropriate, but worth ten times as much in bad publicity. This wasn't a government agency out to get Toyota, it was a government agency doing what its supposed to do, protect the public.

Toyota's mistake was assuming that the public at large would impute to owners the responsibility for the safe maintenance of their vehicles.

BTW, we're not talking about floor mats, we're talking about accelerator pedals that stick...not a floor mat issue.

Er . . . yes, we are. Didn't you read the subtitle to the article?

DETROIT — Floor mats and accelerators continue to plague Toyota.

The alleged issue here is that the floor mats slip up on top of the accelerators and occasionally keep them from popping back up when the foot is taken off.

Now if we say that every time a government agency levies a fine, they are doing so based on an agenda, where does that end? Who determines what fines are legitimate and what fines are politically motivated?

Well, methinks "the government" is not the right answer here.

Let me fix that for you:

It's Official: There Was Nothing (ELECTRONIC) Wrong with Your Toyota (GAS PEDAL). THEY WILL STILL STICK UNLESS THEY ARE FIXED.

Actually, it should read "They will stick if you are careless enough to let your floor mat slip up and over the accelerator pedal."

That's better, and give it up with the whole "GM is owned by the government so they caused this Toyota with hunt". That's a crock and intelligent people know it.

Volkswagen and Suzuki have had, in the recent past, far worse statistical rates than Toyota. Volkswagen was worse even in 2009. Why didn't the administration target them the way they targeted Toyota? Perhaps the most obvious explanation is: market share. Toyota had it. Volkswagen didn't.

Did the government tell them to because they had a stake in GM? Nope.

Is it, or is it not, a fact that the DOT secretary tell people to stop driving their Toyotas immediately immediately on the heels of a taxpayer-subsidized Cash for Clunkers program that was designed to jump-start lagging sales of new American cars in general, and GM brands in particular?

Who was the biggest benefactor of this mess? GM? Nope, it was Honda. Honda had the biggest percentage of old Toyota buyers buy Hondas. Hmmm?? But the government caused it to help GM. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

The only question that matters, Canuck, is whether GM benefited significantly. The issue of whether other manufacturers benefited more, is simply irrelevant.

[Canuck Mormon]

Volkswagen and Suzuki have had, in the recent past, far worse statistical rates than Toyota. Volkswagen was worse even in 2009. Why didn't the administration target them the way they targeted Toyota? Perhaps the most obvious explanation is: market share. Toyota had it. Volkswagen didn't.

How many Volkswagens killed people because of a known safety defect?

Is it, or is it not, a fact that the DOT secretary tell people to stop driving their Toyotas immediately immediately on the heels of a taxpayer-subsidized Cash for Clunkers program that was designed to jump-start lagging sales of new American cars in general, and GM brands in particular?.

Um, the Detroit 3 actually did quite bad during "Cash for Clunkers". All the Japanese imports did better. Again, I beleive Honda was the biggest winner during that program. Also, Ford, which the government has no stake in, was the Detroit 3 manufacture that posted the most gains.

The only question that matters, Canuck, is whether GM benefited significantly. The issue of whether other manufacturers benefited more, is simply irrelevant.

So because GM benefitted, even the slightest, is proof that the government "went after" Toyota? Interesting logic.

And now with the government owning LESS of GM, Toyota has recalled another 2 million vehicles for the same problem. Did the government make them do that as well so GM could benefit? This is a government that can't agree on Health Care, but can organise this?

Actually now that I think of it, this is the biggest screw up of trying to help GM, so maybe the government did have something to do with it.

[Just_A_Guy]

How many Volkswagens killed people because of a known safety defect?

Funny you should ask.

And by the way, in evaluating claims like this one should bear in mind that 1) unintended acceleration is notoriously difficult to duplicate in controlled conditions, and 2) "the car wouldn't stop" is a darned better excuse than "I wasn't watching the road".

Um, the Detroit 3 actually did quite bad during "Cash for Clunkers".

In some ways; but that wasn't the plan. The program was pitched in Congress as an attempt to revive Detroit. I don't think anyone quite counted on how badly Toyota, in particular, would clean Detroit's clocks.

That said: During Cash for Clunkers, Ford and GM still outsold every other manufacturer except Toyota. .

At the end of the program Toyota accounted for 19.4 % of sales, followed by General Motors with 17.6 %, Ford with 14.4 %, Honda with 13.0 %, and Nissan with 8.7%.

And isn't it interesting--the numbers come out in August; and by November the anti-Toyota press machine is in full swing.

All the Japanese imports did better. Again, I beleive Honda was the biggest winner during that program. Also, Ford, which the government has no stake in, was the Detroit 3 manufacture that posted the most gains.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. See the Wikipedia article already cited.

So because GM benefitted, even the slightest, is proof that the government "went after" Toyota? Interesting logic.

Proof? No. But let's be honest--GM's benefit was more than "slight". And, in case you've forgotten, they did run television and radio ads slamming Toyota's safety record against the Malibu. They offered 0% financing/$1000 cash-back to current Toyota owners.

This Toyota business was a godsend for them.

And now with the government owning LESS of GM, Toyota has recalled another 2 million vehicles for the same problem. Did the government make them do that as well so GM could benefit?

The jury's still out on that. (Though GM's stock performance of late has been very interesting . . .)

But while we're waiting to see what comes of it, consider:

1) Compare the press coverage now with what it was back then.

2) Heard the DOT secretary tell people to quit driving their Toyotas again?

This is a government that can't agree on Health Care, but can organise this?

The squabbling over health care has come out of the legislative branch. The DOT is a functionary of the executive branch, accountable primarily to the White House.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Just_A_Guy