Is enough ever enough?

[JudoMinja]

It sounds to me like you are saying the service you've given in the church should mean they should allow you to serve in the temple, yes? However, there is a fallacy in this assumtion. Service given is not a prerequisite for temple service. The temple holds a higher standard for admittance and work than does the church. Much like the missionaries are expected to uphold a higher grooming standard, so are temple workers.

The temple is very very symbolic, and ones willingness to follow the grooming standard is a representation of humility and spiritual cleanliness. Both temple workers and missionary workers are official representatives of the church and are therefore expected to follow such standards to the letter. I am sure there are many other people out there with some sort of handicap or disability preventing them from offering their services in this regard. It can be hard to be "rejected", but this is in no way meant to be offensive. Those who will not or cannot uphold the standard are not admitted. It is as simple as that. Even if your inability is through no personal fault of your own, you are unable to meet the necessary standard and so cannot work in the temple.

Yes, some of the standards may seem silly to us, but sometimes the Lord uses "silly" standards to separate His people. It is only silly when we do not understand the reasoning behind the rule, and it is often only with hindsight that we see what the Lord was trying to accomplish with these limitations. Think of the Army of Gideon and how he chose his soldiers. Think of Joshua's instructions to march around the walls of Jericho. These things seemed silly to them, but with hindsight we can see that it had a purpose and it worked.

Your faithful service to the church is wonderful, but do not expect it to accumulate "points" for you. Our service is meant to benefit others, not ourselves.

[The_Phoenix]

But you're not questioning faith. You're whining and complaining and being a martyr.

Thank you so much for that.

[Gwen]

Thank you so much for that.

sigh, i was really hoping you would prove me wrong..... such is life

[The_Phoenix]

It sounds to me like you are saying the service you've given in the church should mean they should allow you to serve in the temple, yes?

No I am saying that facial hair won't even allow me to show people where to park. So our Prophets from Brigham Young to J. F. Smith would not be allowed to work in the Temple parking lot.

If our GA’s started wearing blue shirts at the next conference, you would not be able to find a blue shirt in Utah soon. People are threatened by individuality. I had facial hair while serving in the Bishopric and as High Priest Group Leader. Also they do make exceptions, I know of a professional Santa who was not required to shave because it was his livelihood. But in my case and others in my State, there are no exceptions, even if medical.

I had a kid in my Ward who had to have a GA’s permission to serve because he had Alopecia areata, he was bald and could not grow hair. It is about image and nothing more. It started with David O McKay.

[The_Phoenix]

sigh, i was really hoping you would prove me wrong..... such is life

Please help me understand this cryptic message.

[Gwen]

Please help me understand this cryptic message.

have you read any of my posts (on any of the threads)?

[The_Phoenix]

phoenix,

it's not generally a good sign when ppl can't see the sympathetic comments. i've offered sympathy in all three threads and what i thought were kind advise/suggestions. yes some ppl have been harsh and blunt in their comments and i agree some have been down right rude. but in the end you seem to have ignored all my comments (as well as those that have been like mine) and only responded to those that "attacked" you.

that response tends to be a red flag that someone isn't serious about wanting advise or a solution. the bottom line is you aren't at peace with your decision so you seem to have become angry. that's never a good road. i hope you can shift your focus a little to find some solutions you can be at peace with. it doesn't have to be the answer anyone here thinks is best for you, just what you can be at peace with. by the way, throwing your hands up and walking away mad isn't being at peace. if you leave the church do it the right way, for the right reasons. make sure, in the end, your life is better for it.

I understand what you are saying, it is just what i feel at the moment, that being; walk in lockstep or walk away.

My High Priest Group Leader knows of my condition, but let me volunteer because he hates men having breads (I even asked up front) He thought I would shave it off to serve for 4 hours at the Temple opening. He knew what the standards were and let me believe all I needed was a recommend.

In shot he though he could manipulate me, he has done this before by recommending everyone who had facial hair to work in the Temple as a means to get them to shave. In many cases it worked.

[The_Phoenix]

have you read any of my posts (on any of the threads)?

I did a moment ago, so thank you. But you are in a minority.

[AGStacker]

I was asked to not bless the sacrament because I had a beard. I respect my bishop but think its uncalled for. If I am worthy to bless it than it is my duty to bless it. Plus he stopped me as I was walking up the steps to bless it. Mind you we had over a dozen priests and it was usually hard to get someone to bless it. Thought I was doing a service?! This is typical of more affluent members. They tend to act like the Pharisees etc.

[Obolus]

I agree that the beard rule is ridiculous. I highly doubt that the big surprise of the second coming will be a clean shaven Savior in a suit from Men's Warehouse.

[Backroads]

I'm just flummoxed about this beard thing. Never dealt with it. Never heard of it until today.

[jayanna]

There is a temple worker at the Dallas temple with a long, snowy beard.

Maybe you should talk to the Temple Pres.y about it...give them a call and explain your nerve situation and ask, what could it hurt?

Also, if they still say you have to be clean shaven, there are still barber shops that do shaves, and Also women sometimes use facial creams such as nair to remove their mustaches.

And no, enough is not enough until you are called home...it is called enduring to the end for a reason. And I really don't understand how all of that service you spoke of (incl. your kids' missions) have anything to do with shaving to work at the temple. What does a pavillion have anything to do with it?

Remember, we are unprofitable servants..no matter how much service we give we can never give more than what has been given to us.

Edited April 12, 2011 by jayanna

[HEthePrimate]

Phoenix,

If I were in charge of your temple open house, I'd allow you to serve. I had a bishop for a while who had a full beard, and later a first counselor in a different bishopric who did, too. Heck, in my ward, you don't even have to wear a tie or a white shirt to pass the Sacrament! It's small comfort, but know that not everybody in the Church is so hung up on nitpicking, meaningless little rules.

I wish you the best.

P.S. Notice the wording above. I said that if I were in charge, I'd "allow" you to serve. Let's remember that the Church is receiving free labor. Perhaps leaders shouldn't be so picky about who they "allow" to help.

Edited April 12, 2011 by HEthePrimate

[The_Phoenix]

There is a temple worker at the Dallas temple with a long, snowy beard.

Maybe you should talk to the Temple Pres.y about it...give them a call and explain your nerve situation and ask, what could it hurt?

Also, if they still say you have to be clean shaven, there are still barber shops that do shaves, and Also women sometimes use facial creams such as nair to remove their mustaches.

And no, enough is not enough until you are called home...it is called enduring to the end for a reason. And I really don't understand how all of that service you spoke of (incl. your kids' missions) have anything to do with shaving to work at the temple. What does a pavillion have anything to do with it?

Remember, we are unprofitable servants..no matter how much service we give we can never give more than what has been given to us.

Professional Santa’s are exempt because it is their livelihood in a lot of cases. The message was two fold, lamenting the Temple service (not being allowed to serve). The other was just a question about how much service is enough. The two are not related.

[The_Phoenix]

Phoenix,

If I were in charge of your temple open house, I'd allow you to serve. I had a bishop for a while who had a full beard, and later a first counselor in a different bishopric who did, too. Heck, in my ward, you don't even have to wear a tie or a white shirt to pass the Sacrament! It's small comfort, but know that not everybody in the Church is so hung up on nitpicking, meaningless little rules.

I wish you the best.

P.S. Notice the wording above. I said that if I were in charge, I'd "allow" you to serve. Let's remember that the Church is receiving free labor. Perhaps leaders shouldn't be so picky about who they "allow" to help.

When I served in the Bishopric I looked like I do now, only younger. Oh and thank you.

[pam]

Let me remind everyone of one of the site rules you agreed to when registering for this site:

1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachers, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere.

That's the road that this thread is taking.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm just flummoxed about this beard thing. Never dealt with it. Never heard of it until today.

Just to help everyone, particularly those who love unusual words, taken from an online dictionary:

flum·mox (flmks)

tr.v. flum·moxed, flum·mox·ing, flum·mox·es Informal

To confuse; perplex.

.

My favorite word is bumptious.

However, not to threadjack...I was denied being a temple veil worker because I had a moustache. However, at the time I didn't really have the time for it, in addition to many other commitments, so I thought it was actually a boon. But wanting to be cooperative with my HPGL, I shaved it off. I was never called after the Great Shaving Event, even though the temple president was in my Ward and saw my clean-shaven personna, however. Strange, as I was in the Bishopric at the time and was a temple-recommend holder. Just sharin'....we must learn to see the good in everything sometimes :)

[a1000tears]

First of all, I haven't read all the responses so I just responding to your original post. I think the whole "beard" thing is unfair....It's not principle, it's policy. I don't think anyone would view the situation like I would view it, but it seems really irresponsible on the church's part to ask people to "serve" but only "if" you appear a certain way. I have a big problem with that, especially with people who are temple worthy. What's in our hearts is what matters the most..who cares what you look like. I hope you haven't had responses telling you that YOU need to change. I think the church sometimes needs to change and take responsibility for the things they do or impose on temple worthy members.

I don't know how many times members tell people that they are at fault and need to change their thinking but when the church is at fault nobody stands up to it. There is always the excuse that men are not perfect, etc etc. Don't get me wrong..I am all about personal responsibility, but there are times when I think the "church" should take responsibility as well..and in those situations it all seems so one-sided. I know it's not a popular viewpoint but one that I see happening all the time.

There is nothing wrong with the way you may feel about this..I'm just guessing, but we all have the scripture about not running faster than we have strength. We all have limitations and it's a responsible person who can understand and admit those limitations. The Lord knows this, but why members expect us to be perfect all the time is so unrealistic to me. I love people's limitations and weaknesses. It makes them seem more human.

Also, I was wondering if your doctor had told you that you could not serve. If you were unable to serve because you were under the care of a physician, then it would make perfect sense.

[pam]

Thread closed.