Book of Mormon Musical Response

[RipplecutBuddha]

South Park creators are mocking our beliefs, in other words stomping on them or killing them. Although they won't kill anybody's faith, I hope. they are still stomping all over our beliefs. We are suppose to love God above all others. With that in mind I don't see it that hyperbolic to compare it to the Joseph Smith situation. However, that is subjective.

People all over the place are mocking our beliefs. If you're going to decry one, you may as well either get started and decry each and every single one of them. Or you could just accept that they're gonna do it whether we like it or not, leave them with their agency to do as they choose, and get on with your life.

If they were the only ones mocking us, I could see the sense of getting upset over it. Considering what the early saints had to endure, this is barely a drop of water in an ocean of insults and attacks. There are more important things to get worked up over.

[Dravin]

People all over the place are mocking our beliefs. If you're going to decry one, you may as well either get started and decry each and every single one of them. Or you could just accept that they're gonna do it whether we like it or not, leave them with their agency to do as they choose, and get on with your life.

If they were the only ones mocking us, I could see the sense of getting upset over it. Considering what the early saints had to endure, this is barely a drop of water in an ocean of insults and attacks. There are more important things to get worked up over.

To be fair, at least how I've been reading him, he hasn't been advocating people get upset. He's just wondering why you'd pay money to someone who makes fun of you. That said, his initial point/question, "Why pay someone to make fun of you?" is easily lost in how he's presenting things.

[Wingnut]

To be fair, at least how I've been reading him, he hasn't been advocating people get upset. He's just wondering why you'd pay money to someone who makes fun of you. That said, his initial point/question, "Why pay someone to make fun of you?" is easily lost in how he's presenting things.

But really, who can you mock if not yourself?

[Dravin]

But really, who can you mock if not yourself?

Matt and Trey, not being Mormon, don't really fall into that do they? You'll have to ask Tyler if he owns any LDS Comedies* or the like. My answer to paying someone to make fun of you would be it's entertaining sometimes and if I suspect it wouldn't be entertaining I'd be disinclined to pay someone to do it.

* I'm assume those are homegrown enough to qualify as LDS pricking their own balloon.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Dravin

[Elphaba]

South Park creators are mocking our beliefs, in other words . . . killing them.

How are they killing your beliefs? That's just nonsensical.

Elphaba

[RipplecutBuddha]

To be fair, at least how I've been reading him, he hasn't been advocating people get upset. He's just wondering why you'd pay money to someone who makes fun of you. That said, his initial point/question, "Why pay someone to make fun of you?" is easily lost in how he's presenting things.

well, okay....fair question. Some people happen to enjoy being made fun of...it's called having a sense of humor with a healthy dose of humility. While I wouldn't spend the money to see the live show, if a video comes out, I'd probably give it a look. For me it's a budgetary matter more than anything else.

While our beliefs are special and sacred to us, as they ought to be, we need to keep in mind how literal the Lord was when he called us 'a peculiar people'. He knew how different we'd look to the rest of the world. Surely he knew we'd be getting satirical jabs from people in the business of making people laugh.

My point remains about how we are to react to this in comparison to what the early saints had to endure. If we try to compare the persecution of the early church to this play....well, very quickly we see there really isn't any comparison. Someone's making light of our beliefs.....not really a new situation, nor is it one likely to go away at any time in the future. People like to use humor to view things that are different to their perception of normal....and sometimes to even view things that are percieved as normal.

[PrinceofLight2000]

South Park mocks *everyone*. They don't seem to have an ax to grind with any particular group or person.

Since when does mocking anyone's religion become tolerable just because all religions are mocked? They don't just mock doctrine that isn't easily understood, either. Have you seen some of the ways they've portrayed Christ? It's absolutely disgusting, on multiple levels. I can't imagine shouldering the weight of that kind of blasphemy. It must dwarf the sin of mocking someone's personal beliefs by several thousand times.

Edited April 18, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[PrinceofLight2000]

Jacob 6:7-11

For behold, after ye have been nourished by the good word of God all the day long, will ye bring forth evil fruit, that ye must be hewn down and cast into the fire?

Behold, will ye reject these words? Will ye reject the words of the prophets; and will ye reject all the words which have been spoken concerning Christ, after so many have spoken concerning him; and deny the good word of Christ, and the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and quench the Holy Spirit, and make a mock of the great plan of redemption, which hath been laid for you?

Know ye not that if ye will do these things, that the power of the redemption and the resurrection, which is in Christ, will bring you to stand with shame and awful guilt before the bar of God?

And according to the power of justice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.

O then, my beloved brethren, repent ye, and enter in at the strait gate, and continue in the way which is narrow, until ye shall obtain eternal life.

Edited April 18, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[Tyler90AZ]

well, okay....fair question. Some people happen to enjoy being made fun of...it's called having a sense of humor with a healthy dose of humility. While I wouldn't spend the money to see the live show, if a video comes out, I'd probably give it a look. For me it's a budgetary matter more than anything else.

While our beliefs are special and sacred to us, as they ought to be, we need to keep in mind how literal the Lord was when he called us 'a peculiar people'. He knew how different we'd look to the rest of the world. Surely he knew we'd be getting satirical jabs from people in the business of making people laugh.

My point remains about how we are to react to this in comparison to what the early saints had to endure. If we try to compare the persecution of the early church to this play....well, very quickly we see there really isn't any comparison. Someone's making light of our beliefs.....not really a new situation, nor is it one likely to go away at any time in the future. People like to use humor to view things that are different to their perception of normal....and sometimes to even view things that are percieved as normal.

What the pioneers went through is even more reason not to pay to see the show.

[estradling75]

Since when does mocking anyone's religion become tolerable just because all religions are mocked? They don't just mock doctrine that isn't easily understood, either. Have you seen some of the ways they've portrayed Christ? It's absolutely disgusting, on multiple levels. I can't imagine shouldering the weight of that kind of blasphemy. It must dwarf the sin of mockery of religion in general by several thousand times.

Please quote where I ever said that... Because to rephrase what I said... if People found it funny and tolerable when other people where getting mocked... They are hypocritical to expect different treatment for their own beliefs.

[PrinceofLight2000]

People all over the place are mocking our beliefs. If you're going to decry one, you may as well either get started and decry each and every single one of them. Or you could just accept that they're gonna do it whether we like it or not, leave them with their agency to do as they choose, and get on with your life.

If they were the only ones mocking us, I could see the sense of getting upset over it. Considering what the early saints had to endure, this is barely a drop of water in an ocean of insults and attacks. There are more important things to get worked up over.

Gladly.

I do, and will, get upset over it. I won't get wrathful over it.

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Matthew 21:12-13

I think a lot of people* hear that it's produced by the South Park guys, and that's all they* hear, so they* assume it's complete trash.

*"people" and "they" refer to Church members.

Let me educate those ignorant masses who may be reading this thread right now for you, Wing, since you're so concerned about them.

There's a well-publicized part of the musical where Ugandans curse God with lots of four letter words. That's enough to make me not wish to waste my money.

Edited April 18, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[PrinceofLight2000]

Please quote where I ever said that... Because to rephrase what I said... if People found it funny and tolerable when other people where getting mocked... They are hypocritical to expect different treatment for their own beliefs.

I see now that you haven't. Editing.

[Suzie]

What the pioneers went through is even more reason not to pay to see the show.

What's the connection between the two?

[Dravin]

What's the connection between the two?

They suffered quite a bit under mockery and persecution. If one sees the Book of Mormon Musical as a similar, if not the same kind of, experience it seems strange to pay someone to do something our ancestors (by culture if not lineage) suffered from. The biggest problem in this thread is people view the humor of Matt and Trey quite differently. If you don't agree with someone else where it sits on the offense-o-meter, thier position is probably going to be more difficult to grok.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Dravin

[Suzie]

They suffered quite a bit under mockery and persecution. If one sees the Book of Mormon Musical as a similar, if not the same kind of, experience it seems strange to pay someone to do something our ancestors (by culture if not lineage) suffered from. The biggest problem in this thread is people view the humor of Matt and Trey quite differently. If you don't agree with someone else where it sits on the offense-o-meter, they're position is probably going to be more difficult to grok.

I try to reason the concept and it just doesn't add up for me maybe I am too liberal in this aspect or the rest are just way over sensitive. Not sure which one is it at this point. But comparing the musical with Joseph Smith and the feathers incident and now with the pioneer persecution? Hmmm hyperbole?

[Dravin]

I try to reason the concept and it just doesn't add up for me maybe I am too liberal in this aspect or the rest are just way over sensitive. Not sure which one is it at this point. But comparing the musical with Joseph Smith and the feathers incident and now with the pioneer persecution? Hmmm hyperbole?

You'll have to take the use of hyperbole up with Tyler. Personally I think it hurts the effective communication of his points as it ends up overshadowing them, as other then having to suffer mocking versus not seeking out mocking I don't follow those connections all that well myself. Ties back into having different ideas of where it sits on the offensive scale.

Now, what exactly is the topic now? It has wandered a bit since my first foray into the conversation.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Dravin

[Tyler90AZ]

I'm not going to argue with anyone. Most of us love the gospel and that's all that matters.

[PrinceofLight2000]

How are they killing your beliefs? That's just nonsensical.

Elphaba

I don't think what you seem to be pointing out was what Tyler had in mind. You're correct that it's impossible to kill someone's personal beliefs via outside force. However, to say that this musical monstrosity and the blasphemy it contains doesn't damage both societal and individual perception of the true church of Jesus Christ via belittlement is equally as nonsensical.

Edited April 18, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[Elphaba]

I don't think what you seem to be pointing out was what Tyler had in mind.

I'm not a mind reader. It's what he wrote.

However, to say that this monstrosity of a musical

As far as musicals go, all the reviews say it's excellent.

and the blasphemy it contains doesn't damage both societal and individual perception of the true church of Jesus Christ via belittlement is equally as nonsensical.

Then it's a good thing I never said that.

Elphaba

[PrinceofLight2000]

I'm not a mind reader. It's what he wrote.

As far as musicals go, all the reviews say it's excellent.

Then it's a good thing I never said that.

Elphaba

The way he wrote it was far from specific, I agree.

Edited, just for you.

I'm quite glad you didn't. I was just making the distinction.

[Suzie]

However, to say that this musical monstrosity and the blasphemy it contains doesn't damage both societal and individual perception of the true church of Jesus Christ via belittlement is equally as nonsensical.

Did you watch it?

[PrinceofLight2000]

Did you watch it?

No, and I don't plan on it because of the blasphemy it contains. Were you going to make a point?

[Suzie]

No, and I don't plan on it because of the blasphemy it contains. Were you going to make a point?

Well, you called it monstrosity and mentioned the "blasphemy" it contains so I thought you actually saw it.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Well, you called it monstrosity and mentioned the "blasphemy" it contains so I thought you actually saw it.

The fact that it contains such blasphemy is enough to deem it a monstrosity, regardless of the overarching message. Such things are added purely for shock value. There are much less offensive and more respectful places where I can educate myself about Matt and Trey's supposed point.

But no, I didn't go see it. :)

Edited April 18, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[RipplecutBuddha]

I try to reason the concept and it just doesn't add up for me maybe I am too liberal in this aspect or the rest are just way over sensitive. Not sure which one is it at this point. But comparing the musical with Joseph Smith and the feathers incident and now with the pioneer persecution? Hmmm hyperbole?

For illustration, maybe this will help. Study everything the early saints went through. If public mockery is the worst we have to deal with....we get off very easily.

Essentially, the difference is this;

Today when people don't like us, they lie about our beliefs and mock them

Back then when people didn't like the LDS church, the saints were lied about,

brought to trial on utterly false charges multiple dozens of times,

their livestock was shot, or run off,

their homes were shot at, ransacked, and burned,

their wives were assaulted and raped,

their husbands were murdered,

their children were murdered,

and eventually they were evicted from a nation that was founded, in part, to ensure religious freedom.

I look up to the early saints with great respect for what they endured. I seriously doubt I'd be able to go thorugh even a portion of that with my faith intact.