Excomunicate Harry Reid?

[honeybear]

I know a couple of people who were excommunicatedfrom the LDS church for adultery. And I might add justifibly so in my opinion . Not only does excommunication tell the world, "we do not tolerate this sort of behavior," it also serves as a social sanction so that members of the organization are warned not to do certain things considered "out of bounds". People who wish to remain "in" the organization are warned that if you do something considered morally aggregious, you are "out".

Harry Reid. He is allegedly a good Mormon. I'm sure he's faithful to his wife, is honest, and does all the things good Mormons are supposed to do, but it seems to me that his political philisophy is now at odds with the Mormon church.

An apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stood with several other religious leaders at a news conference in Washington supporting a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles participated in a press conference with the Alliance for Marriage, and met with President Bush at the White House before giving a statement in support of amending the U.S. Constitution.

"Together we share a duty to preserve marriage and family as established by God," Nelson said. "The time has now come when a constitutional amendment is needed in this country to protect our divine inheritance. Such action does not reduce our regard for individuals who choose to live by other standards. But it confirms our conviction that marriage is the foundry for social order, the fountain of virtue and the foundation for eternal exaltation."

An apostle? Sounds like the Mormons are pretty serious about their support for this constitutional amendment.

But maybe that's just one leader's own opinion on the amendment. Or is supporting the amendment the official position of the LDS Church?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has spent millions of dollars campaigning against gay marriage, urged members Sunday to lobby U.S. senators on the proposed constitutional amendment that would limit marriage to being between a man and a woman.

The church sent a letter to leaders throughout the United States that was to be read to the congregations Sunday.

The letter from the First Presidency – church President Gordon B. Hinckley and his counselors – noted the church leaders "have repeatedly set forth our position that the marriage of a man and a woman is the only acceptable marriage relationship.''

The letter noted that the Senate was scheduled to vote on the proposed marriage amendment on June 6, and said, "We urge our members to express themselves on this urgent matter to their elected representatives in the Senate.''

So, the offical position of the LDS church is that it's members should support the amendment.

So, what is Sen. Harry Reid's take on the amendment banning gay marriage? [The Hill:]

"“The reason for this debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another. This is another one of the president’s efforts to frighten, to distort, to distract and to confuse America.”

Since Harry Reid's Church supports the amendment, why does he choose to be part of an organizationa that, presumabley, is engaged in an effort to "frighten, to distort, to distract and to confuse America"?

But the real question I have is for the Mormon Church. Why would you want to claim a guy like Harry Reid, who thinks your official support of a Constitutional Amendment is not only ill advised but ill motivated?

Reed who is the highest elected Democrat in the country thinks you, the Mormon church hierarchy, are full of crap. Are you guys just going to stand there and take it?

If Harry Reid no longer feels the Mormon church leaders are speaking for God, then the logical step would be to either to stop calling himself a Mormon or for the Mormons to kick him out.

So, Harry Reid, if you are no longer a Mormon, please do us all a favor and be honest about it. And you Mormons, aren't you ashamed that this guy uses your religion as poliltical cover?

[Fiannan]

I had high hopes that Reid would bring some populism and values to the Democratic Party by being its leader in the senate. Now I'm just convinced that Reid is a moron.

[CaptainTux]

Though I feel this is not an amendment issue and should be handled by the judicial branch, I will say this. If Reid is a Mormon, then he has a responsibility to adhere to the tenants of his chosen belief before his political party. You see this often in public political figures who are members of the Catholic church. If your last name is Kennedy, you are welcome to believe in abortion or any other mater in contrary to the Catholic church, but if you are a freshmen senator and Catholic, you better tow the line. The higher up the ladder one is, the less the churches and other authorities seem to do. If this is the official position of the LDS, then they need to address Reid publicly. Will they? I'll wager they won't. If they do, I will tip my had to them for intestinal fortitude.

[BenRaines]

Living in Nevada I am not happy at all with what Harry Reid has done. That said he is not Harry Reid the person who gets to make that vote he is Harry Reid the elected official who is voting. His job is not to represent his beliefs but to represent those who elected him to office. While I do not like his politics I am glad to see an elected official who votes as he believes the people who voted for him would vote.

That said, Nevada passed, on two separate votes, by a more than 70% majority an amendment to the state constitution stating that marriage in Nevada is only between one man and one woman.

Guess he wasn't representing very well. In the local paper he said that he felt is was not a constitutional decision but a states rights issue. The same people that say it is a states rights issue will take it all the way to the US Supreme Court to try and make a state comply with something they don't like.

Ben Raines

[CaptainTux]

Respectfully, I tire of elected leaders who vote y the polls. I vote for a leader. Sometimes that leader has to step outside of the opinion of his or her constituency for the good of the nation and his or her conscience. Sometimes, what the people want is wrong. Sometimes a politician must ignore the will of the people for the good of the people.

Abolishment of slavery

The right of women to vote

Ending segregation

child labor laws

These are issues that required brave leaders to step outside the will of the people and make a stand.

[Fiannan]

No CaptainTx, this sums up Reid's motivations much better:

http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/108011.html

[CaptainTux]

You may be right in reference to Reid. My comment was in general and in response to

His job is not to represent his beliefs but to represent those who elected him to office. While I do not like his politics I am glad to see an elected official who votes as he believes the people who voted for him would vote.

Just as an elected official know how his or her party may think, we should take the time to know the person we are voting for. My apologies on not being more clear.

[prisonchaplain]

But the real question I have is for the Mormon Church. Why would you want to claim a guy like Harry Reid, who thinks your official support of a Constitutional Amendment is not only ill advised but ill motivated?

Reed who is the highest elected Democrat in the country thinks you, the Mormon church hierarchy, are full of crap. Are you guys just going to stand there and take it?

If Harry Reid no longer feels the Mormon church leaders are speaking for God, then the logical step would be to either to stop calling himself a Mormon or for the Mormons to kick him out.

So, Harry Reid, if you are no longer a Mormon, please do us all a favor and be honest about it. And you Mormons, aren't you ashamed that this guy uses your religion as poliltical cover?

Honeybear, be careful what you wish for. Do you really want LDS voting in lock-step bloc fashion--or any church or group for that matter? There are Christians of sincere faith and motivation on both sides of the aisle. And, I say this as one who tends to be on the opposite side of Harry's aisle. I just think fair is fair, and we need to get back to the principle of "loyal opposition." In other words, we can vigorously disagree politically, and still count each other loyal Americans and faithful believers.

[CaptainTux]

This is the first time I have to disagree with you PC.

If one claims to be a member of a church and they desire to be a member of good standing, then they should vote in accordance with the rules of the church they have agreed to. It is one of the reasons that, though I attend the church I go to, I am not a member. There are aspects that I do not agree with and will not sign on due to those aspects.

If I am a confirmed Catholic or a member of the LDS, then I have an obligation to say no to abortion legislation, war, or whatever else the church mandates. I've made a commitment to not only be a Christian, but I have added the human layer of a denomination on top of that. If I want to dance and drink wine at a function, i should relinquish the membership with the A of G. If I want to vote no to an amendment, as a politician, that is my choice, but I should be willing to give up my membership with the lds. I have agreed to be an ambassador to that flavor of faith and have a responsibility to adhere to it's mandates.

I smoke cigars, I drink on occasion, I like to dance, I drink 3 mugs of coffee a day, I am not a pacifist. These vices still allow me entrance to God's throne through Jesus, but they negate my membership to certain denominations.

[cynyclsgirl]

Its my belief that when you take on the name of Christ after baptism and done by someone holding the priesthood authority, you promise or make covanants! and that means no matter what your mind tells you, you are to side with the teachings of Christ you are to remain loyal to what he has commanded, though you are given agency to choose wisely or not

you cannot serve two masters

also make note that when one does accept baptism and from that day forward to represent the Savior in all causes and one day you disagree or wish to walk away from the covanants you made in the past. even if it results in having your name taken off records from the church well guess what...

Heavenly Father accepted your baptism and therefor cannot be annulled or simply written off, you will be held accountable for the remainder of your life, even if you went to another church,and "joined" The Savior does not accept it! plain and simple. The Savior will only accept into his kingdom those that are baptized into the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints

you can proudly state that you smoke cigars, drink on occasion, dance (heaven forbid) or drink Coffee these vises still will allow you entrance to Gods Throne. who are you trying to kid?! For NO unclean thing can or will enter into the presence of Heavenly Father! yes you will be held for a temporary time in a place called "Paradise" until day of judgement then you will judged according to how you kept the commandments. listing your vises and being proud does not consitute actually seeing Hevenly Father eye to eye, he only resides in Celestial Glory and will not visit the lower kingdoms, thats why there are missionarys across this world knocking on doors trying to teach those that are humble to recieve the truth, we will be held accountable for not teaching every living soul about the plan of happiness, you agreed to the plan after the war in heaven when lucifer was cast out.

[prisonchaplain]

This is the first time I have to disagree with you PC.

Hey, nobody's perfect. We all slip now and then. (me or you )

If one claims to be a member of a church and they desire to be a member of good standing, then they should vote in accordance with the rules of the church they have agreed to. It is one of the reasons that, though I attend the church I go to, I am not a member. There are aspects that I do not agree with and will not sign on due to those aspects. If I am a confirmed Catholic or a member of the LDS, then I have an obligation to say no to abortion legislation, war, or whatever else the church mandates. I've made a commitment to not only be a Christian, but I have added the human layer of a denomination on top of that. If I want to dance and drink wine at a function, i should relinquish the membership with the A of G. If I want to vote no to an amendment, as a politician, that is my choice, but I should be willing to give up my membership with the lds. I have agreed to be an ambassador to that flavor of faith and have a responsibility to adhere to it's mandates.

I can understand you view when it comes to social mores. BTW the A/G does not have official membership restrictions on dancing and drinking, though the social practice probably 90%+ against.

However, when it comes to political parties, or single-issues, I'd hate to think that if I disagreed with my church's leadership on one particular issue, that I would have to either vote against my conscience or reasoning OR turn in membership and credentials. Should a church have that much control over its members, the IRS might indeed do some investigating.

I smoke cigars, I drink on occasion, I like to dance, I drink 3 mugs of coffee a day, I am not a pacifist. These vices still allow me entrance to God's throne through Jesus, but they negate my membership to certain denominations.

Again, I agree when it comes to private moral practice, but would not rejoice in the day when my movement required complete loyalty to a political platform for "member in good standing" status.

[CaptainTux]

I did not know that about the a of g. I went to an a of g bible college and if we were caught dancing or smoking or seeing an r rated movie, we risked expulsion. (it has been more than a decade since I read the 16 fundamental truths of the a of g.)

Catholicism and the LDS seem (from an outsider's view) to be more restrictive in it's membership.

In principle I agree with you. But if I agree to be a part of membership of a more restrictive group, I have to make a choice. If I cannot adhere to those practices, I should not associate myself as a member.

I get where you are coming from, I really do. I also share your beliefs on the issue, but I am also not a member of the LDS or the Catholic church or many others that have certain expectations of their membership and excommunication or removal policies in place.

As far as the pobody's nerfect rule...agreed.

[pushka]

Can somebody tell me what the A of G is please? Thanks in advance :)

Ooops..scrap that please, I've just realised what it means!! sorry, just being dim again

[BenRaines]

I agree that we should vote our values and what we believe. I do not run for public office so as not to be conflicted. I vote for candidates based on how I best believe that they will represent my beliefs and hope they follow what they have said or say they will do. If they don't then they don't get my vote next time.

I have never voted for Harry Reid. :)

[Jason]

Its my belief that when you take on the name of Christ after baptism and done by someone holding the priesthood authority, you promise or make covanants! and that means no matter what your mind tells you, you are to side with the teachings of Christ you are to remain loyal to what he has commanded, though you are given agency to choose wisely or not

you cannot serve two masters

also make note that when one does accept baptism and from that day forward to represent the Savior in all causes and one day you disagree or wish to walk away from the covanants you made in the past. even if it results in having your name taken off records from the church well guess what...

Heavenly Father accepted your baptism and therefor cannot be annulled or simply written off, you will be held accountable for the remainder of your life, even if you went to another church,and "joined" The Savior does not accept it! plain and simple. The Savior will only accept into his kingdom those that are baptized into the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints

you can proudly state that you smoke cigars, drink on occasion, dance (heaven forbid) or drink Coffee these vises still will allow you entrance to Gods Throne. who are you trying to kid?! For NO unclean thing can or will enter into the presence of Heavenly Father! yes you will be held for a temporary time in a place called "Paradise" until day of judgement then you will judged according to how you kept the commandments. listing your vises and being proud does not consitute actually seeing Hevenly Father eye to eye, he only resides in Celestial Glory and will not visit the lower kingdoms, thats why there are missionarys across this world knocking on doors trying to teach those that are humble to recieve the truth, we will be held accountable for not teaching every living soul about the plan of happiness, you agreed to the plan after the war in heaven when lucifer was cast out.

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference....

[prisonchaplain]

I did not know that about the a of g. I went to an a of g bible college and if we were caught dancing or smoking or seeing an r rated movie, we risked expulsion. (it has been more than a decade since I read the 16 fundamental truths of the a of g.)

The Bible colleges are training our future ministers, and so are stricter. Also, they used to be a lot stricter than they are. I got married during spring break (not a short-term relationship, however), and my history prof. informed that if I had done that when he was in school, I would have been expelled (he smiled when he said it). I'm quite certain none of the social morals issues are in the 16 fundamentals. When I was in seminary (mid-1990s) we were required not to consume alcohol, but no questions were raised about movie attendance or dancing.

Also, these days churches on the coasts (you know--us liberals) see themselves almost as spiritual hospitals. We'll take in the smokers, and trust that God will help 'em get delivered over time.

Bottom-line: We've loosened up a lot, but still would correctly be seen as socially conservative.

I get where you are coming from, I really do. I also share your beliefs on the issue, but I am also not a member of the LDS or the Catholic church or many others that have certain expectations of their membership and excommunication or removal policies in place.

Well, apparently, neither the RCC or the LDS have rules against membership in the Democrat party, or against members who are politicianss voting in ways that church leaders might publicly disagree with.

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Its my belief that when you take on the name of Christ after baptism and done by someone holding the priesthood authority, you promise or make covanants! and that means no matter what your mind tells you, you are to side with the teachings of Christ you are to remain loyal to what he has commanded, though you are given agency to choose wisely or not

you cannot serve two masters

also make note that when one does accept baptism and from that day forward to represent the Savior in all causes and one day you disagree or wish to walk away from the covanants you made in the past. even if it results in having your name taken off records from the church well guess what...

Heavenly Father accepted your baptism and therefor cannot be annulled or simply written off, you will be held accountable for the remainder of your life, even if you went to another church,and "joined" The Savior does not accept it! plain and simple. The Savior will only accept into his kingdom those that are baptized into the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints

you can proudly state that you smoke cigars, drink on occasion, dance (heaven forbid) or drink Coffee these vises still will allow you entrance to Gods Throne. who are you trying to kid?! For NO unclean thing can or will enter into the presence of Heavenly Father! yes you will be held for a temporary time in a place called "Paradise" until day of judgement then you will judged according to how you kept the commandments. listing your vises and being proud does not consitute actually seeing Hevenly Father eye to eye, he only resides in Celestial Glory and will not visit the lower kingdoms, thats why there are missionarys across this world knocking on doors trying to teach those that are humble to recieve the truth, we will be held accountable for not teaching every living soul about the plan of happiness, you agreed to the plan after the war in heaven when lucifer was cast out.

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference....

Yes, even some youth can cause us to feel shame or be proud. :)

[TruthTeller69]

Respectfully, I tire of elected leaders who vote y the polls. I vote for a leader. Sometimes that leader has to step outside of the opinion of his or her constituency for the good of the nation and his or her conscience. Sometimes, what the people want is wrong. Sometimes a politician must ignore the will of the people for the good of the people.

Abolishment of slavery

The right of women to vote

Ending segregation

child labor laws

These are issues that required brave leaders to step outside the will of the people and make a stand.

The right of women to vote (BIG MISTAKE)

Let them vote let them work out side the home this is what is killing the american family!!!

[CaptainTux]

<div class='quotemain'>

I did not know that about the a of g. I went to an a of g bible college and if we were caught dancing or smoking or seeing an r rated movie, we risked expulsion. (it has been more than a decade since I read the 16 fundamental truths of the a of g.)

The Bible colleges are training our future ministers, and so are stricter. Also, they used to be a lot stricter than they are. I got married during spring break (not a short-term relationship, however), and my history prof. informed that if I had done that when he was in school, I would have been expelled (he smiled when he said it). I'm quite certain none of the social morals issues are in the 16 fundamentals. When I was in seminary (mid-1990s) we were required not to consume alcohol, but no questions were raised about movie attendance or dancing.

Also, these days churches on the coasts (you know--us liberals) see themselves almost as spiritual hospitals. We'll take in the smokers, and trust that God will help 'em get delivered over time.

Bottom-line: We've loosened up a lot, but still would correctly be seen as socially conservative.

I get where you are coming from, I really do. I also share your beliefs on the issue, but I am also not a member of the LDS or the Catholic church or many others that have certain expectations of their membership and excommunication or removal policies in place.

Well, apparently, neither the RCC or the LDS have rules against membership in the Democrat party, or against members who are politicianss voting in ways that church leaders might publicly disagree with.

Ah, you are correct, I just re read the big 16. Nada about the alcohol and the dancing. The AG church near me has not loosened up yet. They got a new Pastor about 13 years ago who is a big health and wealth guy. We don't get along. I do not blame the denomination for that, I blame too many people watching TBN. Funny that I hold the views on Christian politicians that I do. The Christian coalition scares me and frustrates me. I have never seen our role as being the rulers of the nation on this earth. I have also, frankly, been confused as to how the republican party has become synonymous with being a Christian.

I usually vote on the conservative side, but I have to wonder how up on strong military, guns for all, and war Jesus would be. He would be all about pro life...but where would Jesus sit on welfare, education, taxes? Oh wait! Give to Caesar what is Caesar's! That's right!

The right of women to vote (BIG MISTAKE)

Let them vote let them work out side the home this is what is killing the american family!!!

Your kidding and forgot to add the smiley? If not we will have to agree to disagree.

[TruthTeller69]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I did not know that about the a of g. I went to an a of g bible college and if we were caught dancing or smoking or seeing an r rated movie, we risked expulsion. (it has been more than a decade since I read the 16 fundamental truths of the a of g.)

The Bible colleges are training our future ministers, and so are stricter. Also, they used to be a lot stricter than they are. I got married during spring break (not a short-term relationship, however), and my history prof. informed that if I had done that when he was in school, I would have been expelled (he smiled when he said it). I'm quite certain none of the social morals issues are in the 16 fundamentals. When I was in seminary (mid-1990s) we were required not to consume alcohol, but no questions were raised about movie attendance or dancing.

Also, these days churches on the coasts (you know--us liberals) see themselves almost as spiritual hospitals. We'll take in the smokers, and trust that God will help 'em get delivered over time.

Bottom-line: We've loosened up a lot, but still would correctly be seen as socially conservative.

I get where you are coming from, I really do. I also share your beliefs on the issue, but I am also not a member of the LDS or the Catholic church or many others that have certain expectations of their membership and excommunication or removal policies in place.

Well, apparently, neither the RCC or the LDS have rules against membership in the Democrat party, or against members who are politicianss voting in ways that church leaders might publicly disagree with.

Ah, you are correct, I just re read the big 16. Nada about the alcohol and the dancing. The AG church near me has not loosened up yet. They got a new Pastor about 13 years ago who is a big health and wealth guy. We don't get along. I do not blame the denomination for that, I blame too many people watching TBN. Funny that I hold the views on Christian politicians that I do. The Christian coalition scares me and frustrates me. I have never seen our role as being the rulers of the nation on this earth. I have also, frankly, been confused as to how the republican party has become synonymous with being a Christian.

I usually vote on the conservative side, but I have to wonder how up on strong military, guns for all, and war Jesus would be. He would be all about pro life...but where would Jesus sit on welfare, education, taxes? Oh wait! Give to Caesar what is Caesar's! That's right!

The right of women to vote (BIG MISTAKE)

Let them vote let them work out side the home this is what is killing the american family!!!

Your kidding and forgot to add the smiley? If not we will have to agree to disagree.

I am not kidding If you look at the time frame of women getting the vote and the change in the american family you are blind.

And women working outside the home has turned us into a daycare Nation....My wife and I will raise our children thank you!!

Women think that they can take care of themselves and they can't and they find that out...read your Bible and it tells us how to live and where women belong and that comes from God!

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

And that is how it would work in my house if it were not for the women getting the vote

[Jason]

I am not kidding If you look at the time frame of women getting the vote and the change in the american family you are blind.

So my great state of Wyoming granted women the right to vote in 1869. Is that when your so-called "American Family" went to crap? And could you provide us with some statistical examples along with your opinon. Thanks.

And women working outside the home has turned us into a daycare Nation....My wife and I will raise our children thank you!!

Daycare nation? I don't know about your daycare, but in Wyoming, we're passing legislation which requires all daycares to adhear to high educational requirements. And my daughters go to daycare. When my oldest got to Public School, she was (and still is) considerably more advanced than all of the stay-at-home kids. They struggle, she excels. Now, while I'd love to take the credit on a genetic basis, Im pretty sure that it's the quality of daycare that has pushed her so far ahead of children like yours.

Women think that they can take care of themselves and they can't and they find that out...

Not too bright...are ya? Millions of women prove you wrong every day.

Are you a real person?

...read your Bible and it tells us how to live and where women belong and that comes from God!

Oh, now I see. You're actually a teenage posing as an adult.

Ok. When you grow up, and can understand the difference between a story and reality, you come back here and post, ok?

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

Well if you ever get a wife, make sure she's half brain dead. Otherwise, you'll have a heck of a time convincing her of something so stupid as that.

[Ray]

Heh, sometimes I really do love you, Jason. I hope you'll deserve to live someplace good...

... just not too close to me!!!

[CaptainTux]

My young padawan, only the sith speak in absolutes.

My wife is my friend and my equal. As I read my Bible I see many strong women who did live on their own. Mary Madeline comes to mind, Ruth and Naomi did a pretty good job on an amazing journey as well. It was only after some adventure on thier own that Ruth married Boaz. Esther put her life on the line a few times to her husband king to win favor for her people. I could go on of a Bible full of strong women that would make Katherine Hepburn look timid and mild mannered and would not and proved to not succumb to the whims of a male. Yes, I know, Eph tells wives to obey their hubbies...we hubbies are told to love our wives as Jesus loves the Church. How much did He love the church. So much so that Jesus died ont he cross as the Church placed the nails in. Ouch. Proverbs tells me that a good wife will plan the day for the servants and plan the shopping and look for values...seems like an executive manager of the home. The wife will also investigate land to purchase...pretty saavy for one who's pretty little head has a quiet mouth. If the wife may not work, how is the vineyard planted from her earnings anyway? With her mouth shut, how is she to speak with wisdom and laugh without fear of the future?

The fall of our society was not from women entering the workplace....it was the greed and consumerism that followed. The extra income soon become a materialistic frenzy to own stuff at 16% interest cuz we think we need it. I know it is a work of fiction, but Rebel Without a Cause is a great portrayal about the farce that was the American Nuclear Family. It was based in appearance than actual practice. We still had alcoholism, abuse, infidelity, etc...we just did not air out the dirty linen. In the 1920's we had trial marriages....um...living together. We also had segregated schools and neighborhoods and people would have to use different drinking fountains based on skin color. How advanced and civilized we were as a Christian nation with strong family values as we put a bullet in the head of a man who dared to dream that all men were created equal. Society was as broken then as it is now...we just had prayer in school.

When women started hitting hte workforce, we had extra money. With that extra dough we bought stuff. Now we do not even need the extra money..we charge it. Greed got us...not women voting and working.

[Ray]

My young padawan, only the sith speak in absolutes.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

And here's another example:

God will always be the most ultimate being there was and is in existence.

And yes I'm absolutely sure about that.

[CaptainTux]

Are you absolutely sure about that?

And here's another example:

God will always be the most ultimate being there was and is in existence.

And yes I'm absolutely sure about that.

Oh snap! I bow to you in defeat, sir.

I was merely expressing sarcasm (which is the wisdom of fools) towards comments that tell me I am blind and to read my Bible as if I had not already done so in my life. I am willing to debate respectfully to others, but when pushed...I roll up the sleeves.

BTW, for anyone interested. I was a stay at home dad for 2 years and I now am part owner of three companies and still work out of the home and do not feel for a moment that I have compromised my leadership in the home. But again, she is also my partner, valued companion, and partner in crime. I love my wife and anyone who tells me she needs to be less than she is will have to deal with me.