Excomunicate Harry Reid?

[Guest MrsS]

<div align="center">Jason ~ Captain Tux ~ Ray </div>

<div align="center">

WAY TO GO, You all tell that young whipper-snapper where to take it!!</div>

TruthTeller ~ you have a LOT of growing up to do. Please do so before you come back and post.

Or better yet, go find a forum of self-centered, boorish, neanderthals like yourself and be happy!

I certainly would like to hear what your Mama has to say about your poor and serioulsy outdated attitude!

[cynyclsgirl]

<div align="center">Jason ~ Captain Tux ~ Ray

<div align="center">

WAY TO GO, You all tell that young whipper-snapper where to take it!!</div>

TruthTeller ~ you have a LOT of growing up to do. Please do so before you come back and post.

Or better yet, go find a forum of self-centered, boorish, neanderthals like yourself and be happy!

I certainly would like to hear what your Mama has to say about your poor and serioulsy outdated attitude!

Being a woman of sound mind, I conclude that yes woman have done a great disservice to america, it was admonished that woman are to preside in the home period! or great calamitys would result, if you dont believe me go and read the news. look at those in the prison systems, those that turn to drugs and achohol, theres no disapline, a society that is plagued with the "me" attitude. give me a break, because of the ERA which if I was old enough at the time I would of fought tool and nail against it. yep woman to blame for the downfall of society.

now with this crap of gay marriage, its been foretold that, that will also bring america down, our values as a a nation are gone

guess Eve thought she new what she was doing huh? we havent learned a thing since them!

[CaptainTux]

Was it women who held a sword to the native Americans, told them to repent or die and then killed them so they would not fall to sin? Was it women who put Japanese Americans into internment camps in WWII? Was it women who ran the speak easys in the roaring 20's? Was it women who bought and sold slaves? Was it women who cried isolationism in congress while Jews were burned alive in ovens in Germany? Was it women who decided to place African American's in separate bathrooms and restrict their right to buy and sell goods and eat in certain places? Was it women who instituted sweat shops and cruel child labor in the 1800's and 1900's?

My dear, society has had it's ilks and downfalls and shortcomings since the foundation of this country...nay, since the foundation of all societies. I hear of this downfall, but I am still trying to figure out when this country was so dang blasted perfect. It is still the greatest place to live in the world as we know it, but it has always had it's problems. The warts we have cannot be placed on one gender...this mess we are in was a team sport.

Did not Adam eat too?

[Sugarbay]

And you Mormons, aren't you ashamed that this guy uses your religion as poliltical cover?

__________________________________

You mormons? Honeybear, are you a separatist?

____________________________

I am not kidding If you look at the time frame of women getting the vote and the change in the american family you are blind.

And women working outside the home has turned us into a daycare Nation....My wife and I will raise our children thank you!!

Women think that they can take care of themselves and they can't and they find that out...read your Bible and it tells us how to live and where women belong and that comes from God!

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

And that is how it would work in my house if it were not for the women getting the vote

WHJAT FLIGHT ARE YOU ON, YOU CRO MAGNON?????

[Jason]

Hey "truthteller69", I'd like you to meet your new wife "cynyclsgirl".

May you two live happily ever after.

[prisonchaplain]

So my great state of Wyoming granted women the right to vote in 1869. Is that when your so-called "American Family" went to crap? And could you provide us with some statistical examples along with your opinon. Thanks.

Daycare nation? I don't know about your daycare, but in Wyoming, we're passing legislation which requires all daycares to adhear to high educational requirements. And my daughters go to daycare. When my oldest got to Public School, she was (and still is) considerably more advanced than all of the stay-at-home kids. They struggle, she excels. Now, while I'd love to take the credit on a genetic basis, Im pretty sure that it's the quality of daycare that has pushed her so far ahead of children like yours.

Not too bright...are ya? Millions of women prove you wrong every day.

Are you a real person?

Oh, now I see. You're actually a teenage posing as an adult.

Ok. When you grow up, and can understand the difference between a story and reality, you come back here and post, ok?

Well if you ever get a wife, make sure she's half brain dead. Otherwise, you'll have a heck of a time convincing her of something so stupid as that.

Jason, have you ever read The Onion. I think you've been punked.

Being a woman of sound mind, I conclude that yes woman have done a great disservice to america, it was admonished that woman are to preside in the home period! or great calamitys would result, if you dont believe me go and read the news. look at those in the prison systems, those that turn to drugs and achohol, theres no disapline, a society that is plagued with the "me" attitude. give me a break, because of the ERA which if I was old enough at the time I would of fought tool and nail against it. yep woman to blame for the downfall of society.

now with this crap of gay marriage, its been foretold that, that will also bring america down, our values as a a nation are gone guess Eve thought she new what she was doing huh? we havent learned a thing since them!

Why are anti-Mormons allowed to come here posing as real LDS, and pose very poor paradies of the worst stereotypes about you?

[Guest MrsS]

Why are anti-Mormons allowed to come here posing as real LDS, and pose very poor paradies of the worst stereotypes about you?

Because we are continously turning the other cheek ~ giving the benefit of the doubt ~ and we are just way too nice for our own good.

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>WHAT FLIGHT ARE YOU ON, YOU CRO MAGNON?????

[Sugarbay]

<div class='quotemain'>

Its my belief that when you take on the name of Christ after baptism and done by someone holding the priesthood authority, you promise or make covanants! and that means no matter what your mind tells you, you are to side with the teachings of Christ you are to remain loyal to what he has commanded, though you are given agency to choose wisely or not

you cannot serve two masters

also make note that when one does accept baptism and from that day forward to represent the Savior in all causes and one day you disagree or wish to walk away from the covanants you made in the past. even if it results in having your name taken off records from the church well guess what...

Heavenly Father accepted your baptism and therefor cannot be annulled or simply written off, you will be held accountable for the remainder of your life, even if you went to another church,and "joined" The Savior does not accept it! plain and simple. The Savior will only accept into his kingdom those that are baptized into the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints

you can proudly state that you smoke cigars, drink on occasion, dance (heaven forbid) or drink Coffee these vises still will allow you entrance to Gods Throne. who are you trying to kid?! For NO unclean thing can or will enter into the presence of Heavenly Father! yes you will be held for a temporary time in a place called "Paradise" until day of judgement then you will judged according to how you kept the commandments. listing your vises and being proud does not consitute actually seeing Hevenly Father eye to eye, he only resides in Celestial Glory and will not visit the lower kingdoms, thats why there are missionarys across this world knocking on doors trying to teach those that are humble to recieve the truth, we will be held accountable for not teaching every living soul about the plan of happiness, you agreed to the plan after the war in heaven when lucifer was cast out.

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference....

What's wrong with that. If only every stood by their covenants what a great place this would be. Shame on you for putting her down. Perhaps she thinks it is whacko to turn your back on your covenants after serving a mission, being married in the temple, coming out in open rebellion against Father, and such. She would be right.

[Maureen]

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

What advice would you give your pretty little wife, if you were to die a premature death TT69 and leave her with no life insurance, children to feed and cloth, no educational abilities to support herself and family and no way to make sound decisions because it was not her place to "think". Oh wait, what would you care, you'd be frolicking in heaven!

M.

[CaptainTux]

Wouldn't his brother have to marry her biblically?

Why are anti-Mormons allowed to come here posing as real LDS, and pose very poor paradies of the worst stereotypes about you?

I have been punked by a poser? Well honk my hooter and paint gullible on my forehead! I spend most of my forum time in computer help forusm and it does not take more than one post to tell when a bloke knows nothing about computers...especially when they start using Star Trek jargon and tell us the flux capacitor crashed....but I suppose in a forum like this you can pretend to be a lot of things. Oh well, live and learn.

Ok folks...don't feed the trolls.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference....

What's wrong with that. If only every stood by their covenants what a great place this would be. Shame on you for putting her down. Perhaps she thinks it is whacko to turn your back on your covenants after serving a mission, being married in the temple, coming out in open rebellion against Father, and such. She would be right.

Somebody was cranky last night.

Sugar, you know better than to get me wound-up over this. Why are you trying?

[TruthTeller69]

It's just so easy.....It was not even well thought out

Something else.....I am glad that we finally found out the truth about JC and Mary and the whole bible....where would we be without the prophet Dan Brown

[shanstress70]

It's just so easy.....It was not even well thought out

Something else.....I am glad that we finally found out the truth about JC and Mary and the whole bible....where would we be without the prophet Dan Brown

Why you so CRAAAAAZY Truth Tella?

[stormy]

To say I am no fan of Harry Reid would be an understatement, however, I agree with him at this point in time about the following: ""“The reason for this debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another. This is another one of the president’s efforts to frighten, to distort, to distract and to confuse America.”

This Amendment was proposed and pushed knowing well that it would not pass. It is an election year and this is political pandering at it's finest. It was also a means of drawing the American Publics attention from the border issue, which is going to devastate the Republicans this election cycle.

[Sugarbay]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference....

What's wrong with that. If only every stood by their covenants what a great place this would be. Shame on you for putting her down. Perhaps she thinks it is whacko to turn your back on your covenants after serving a mission, being married in the temple, coming out in open rebellion against Father, and such. She would be right.

Somebody was cranky last night.

Sugar, you know better than to get me wound-up over this. Why are you trying?

I miss you.

[Lindy]

Women think that they can take care of themselves and they can't and they find that out...read your Bible and it tells us how to live and where women belong and that comes from God!

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

OH MY HECK!!!!!! Before I say something REALLY bad about your ludicrous statement........ I'll keep my mouth shut! I don't feed the animals

[Dror]

Er, whatever happened to separation of church and state?!? I think what Senator Reid did was courageous--he voted his conscience, not just what somebody told him to do. I also happen to agree with his vote, for a number of reasons.

1. Marriage and family law traditionally falls under the jurisdiction of the state governments, not the federal.

2. The "Defense of Marriage Amendment" does not protect marriage between a man and a woman, because:

a. heterosexual marriage is not under attack in the first place (nobody's trying to ban it);

b. far more serious threats to marriage are not addressed at all by the proposed amendment (fornication, adultery, teenage pregnancy, poverty, inadequate health care, poor education, commercialism, violence, etc.)

3. The proposed amendment is blatantly discriminatory--it singles out homosexuals, a tiny minority of the population, and denies them civil liberties the rest of us enjoy.

Like Senator Reid (and presumably y'all), I believe God means marriage to be between a man and a woman, but I also don't believe we should legislate all the commandments. If we're going to try strengthening the family through the power of the state, why don't we pass a constitutional amendment banning adultery, a far more common sin, and one that destroys far more families, than homosexual sex?

This proposed amendment is very hateful toward homosexuals, because it singles them out like that, and it's a rather obvious ploy on the part of the far "right" wing to boost their ratings in the popularity polls and garner more votes. Gay marriage, while I don't condone it, is almost a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned (along with flag burning)--we have far more important things to be focusing on.

Dror

[Lindy]

I have no problem with my wife voting as long as she votes how I advise her...she does not need to worry her pretty little head about the ways of the world she just needs to keep the house clean and her mouth shutty!!

Well if you ever get a wife, make sure she's half brain dead. Otherwise, you'll have a heck of a time convincing her of something so stupid as that.

Oh Jason.... that's why I love ya.... a man who sticks up for the underdog, the women and the children :)

Oh and Ray....

Heh, sometimes I really do love you, Jason. I hope you'll deserve to live someplace good...

... just not too close to me!!!

You'll probably be the back yard neighbor Ray..... Jason and his family will live right next door to me! :)

[CaptainTux]

Er, whatever happened to separation of church and state?!?

You find me separation of church and state in the constitution and I'll back ya up. After you give up trying to find what ain't there, I will be willing to give you the source of the phrase.

Constitutionally, I see this is a state's right issue and not an amendment issue. That said, there is another side to the coin. Some feel that accepting homosexuality will open up a legal principle called the thin edge of the wedge Allowing one group to wed based on preference opens up legal principles to grant this to other groups. NAMBLA and the UCLA are already buddies.

I know I know, it may be something you are born with, but it could also be situational, jury is still out on that one.

[Dror]

<div class='quotemain'>

Er, whatever happened to separation of church and state?!?

You find me separation of church and state in the constitution and I'll back ya up. After you give up trying to find what ain't there, I will be willing to give you the source of the phrase.

Constitutionally, I see this is a state's right issue and not an amendment issue. That said, there is another side to the coin. Some feel that accepting homosexuality will open up a legal principle called the thin edge of the wedge Allowing one group to wed based on preference opens up legal principles to grant this to other groups. NAMBLA and the UCLA are already buddies.

I know I know, it may be something you are born with, but it could also be situational, jury is still out on that one.

The UCLA?!? My dad got his Ph.D. there!! (Methinks you meant the ACLU.) NAMBLA is quite another story from normal homosexuality. Adult homosexual relations are between, well, adults. That is, it's consensual. There's a huge moral (not to mention legal) difference between that and adult-child sex, which is what NAMBLA advocates--adult-child sex is inherently nonconsensual, and therefore a severe violation of the child.

Once again, I do not favor gay marriage per se--I'm just not sure it's something we ought to legislate, and if we do decide to legislate it, we should also use legislation to address more serious threats to the family, like poverty, divorce, heterosexual adultery, heterosexual fornication, heavy petting, sex on tv, French kissing, violence, etc., etc., etc., not single out homosexuals.

Finding separation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution is easy enough--Article VI and Amendment I. You can quibble about exact wording, but to me it's the principle that matters. Legal precedent also seems to stand on the side of separation. If you feel you must "inform" me about the source of the notion of separation of church and state, feel free to--I've got my sources, too, some very nice quotes from the Founders!

I believe it's quite possible people are either born homosexual, or with strong tendencies in that direction. We do know for certain that some people are genetically male, but physiologically female. There are various causes of sexual ambiguity which, although not the same thing as homosexuality, illustrate the fact that sexuality is not as straightforward as we'd like to think. (Wouldn't the world be easier if it were?) Whether or not one is born homosexual is irrelevant anyway, as far as I'm concerned. It's quite possible a person is born homosexual, but can choose to live the Law of Chastity, nevertheless. We all have trials, temptations, weaknesses, things to deal with in life. Most of us have sexual urges long before we get married, but we can choose to remain clean until we do get married. Plenty of people never marry at all, and remain faithful, and chaste, members of the Church. So, I have no problem with the notion some or many homosexuals are born that way. I'm straight, and I was born this way!!

Anyway, my main point is, let's leave the homosexuals alone, for heaven's sake! They're children of God just as much as we are, and deserve respect and happiness. Why persecute them? Why discriminate against them? Why single them out for unfair legislation? Why don't we get on with addressing the real threats to the family? Are we serious about protecting and strengthening families, or are we going to waste time and energy and money passing useless amendments that do nothing but show homosexuals how much people hate them? Is this what Christ wants us to do, hate gays and ignore the real threats to the family?

[honeybear]

Is this what Christ wants us to do, hate gays and ignore the real threats to the family?

No Christ does not want us to hate gays, but he does hate the sin that comes from it. Christ hates the sin but he loves the sinner and He is our example.

The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?

Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.

As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

{quote] Why don't we get on with addressing the real threats to the family? Are we serious about protecting and strengthening families. How does this lifestyle stenghten families?

It goes against the very core of what a family should be.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

Er, whatever happened to separation of church and state?!?

You find me separation of church and state in the constitution and I'll back ya up. After you give up trying to find what ain't there, I will be willing to give you the source of the phrase.

Constitutionally, I see this is a state's right issue and not an amendment issue. That said, there is another side to the coin. Some feel that accepting homosexuality will open up a legal principle called the thin edge of the wedge Allowing one group to wed based on preference opens up legal principles to grant this to other groups. NAMBLA and the UCLA are already buddies.

I know I know, it may be something you are born with, but it could also be situational, jury is still out on that one.

Just love talking about NAMBLA, don't you Ari?

[Maureen]

Just love talking about NAMBLA, don't you Ari?

I'm pretty sure CaptainTux is not Ari! :)

M.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

Just love talking about NAMBLA, don't you Ari?

I'm pretty sure CaptainTux is not Ari! :)

M.

Im wondering about that. I've never seen anyone else mention politcs and NAMBLA in the same post.

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Just love talking about NAMBLA, don't you Ari?

I'm pretty sure CaptainTux is not Ari! :)

M.

Im wondering about that. I've never seen anyone else mention politcs and NAMBLA in the same post.

Capt. Tux is not Ari--I'm almost positive. While invoking NAMBLA can be extreme, it's a slippery slope that's not unreasonable to speculate about. What about an 18 year "man" and a 17 year old "boy"? 19 and 16, 20 and 15? Some churches believe that a child as young as 7 or 8 is old enough to be "born again." Jews declare 13-year olds to be men.

20 years ago the right-wing Moral Majority types said that homosexuals would eventually go for legalized marriage, with the hopes of eventually destorying it. Far-fetched!! Outrageous! They exclaimed. Just stay out of our bedrooms. Today many are saying government should simply get out of the business of marriage all together (i.e. the public institution of marriage should be abolished...destroyed).

This is a tough problem, because the religious arguments against homosexual marriage are, well, religious. The bottom-line question is, can society have certain standards of behavior that are common and based in shared morals? If yes, then societies may continue to say no to homosexual marriage. If not--if we want to embrace the Libertarian concept that there should be no legal sanction against "victimless" behavior--i.e. consensual behavior--then, there's really nothing to stop it.