How Can Someone Who Lives In Insane Luxury...

[Guest Monica]

We also know that Jesus healed. ...

Jesus told people to repent, so did John the baptist. This is nothing new.

In fact many people that were healed by Jesus were healed when told their sin was forgiven.

There is no making excuses for sin. That is why Jesus had to pay the price for sin on the cross.

Jesus shed blood NEVER gives carte blanche for sin. The cliche of everyone does it just doesnt cut it.

We are called to be holy and set apart from the wickedness of the world.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

By the way the Bible isnt a game... its the way to life eternal in Christ.

[Guest Monica]

I will do a little self examination based on the ten commandments. ...

BINGO you are starting to get the picture now :)!!!

However, the difference between you and brandgelina (both brad and angelina since its taken the 2 to tango) is that you ADMIT to your sins instead of celebrating and parading it before the world and God. You confessed your faults and you realize that any good you can ever do is thru the Holy Spirit of God and His mercy, forgivenes, and grace!

Brangelina hasnt repented in fact they have sold their photoshoot of their baby to the highest bidder. To add insult to injury they are selling the sin. Now the money is going to charity.

This is no different than the 30 pieces of silver that Judas tried to give back to the temple for betraying Jesus. It was rejected then, because it came about as ill gotton gains. See with God the ends dont justify the means.

Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

Deu 23:18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Any money that brangelina is donating to whatever charity from the result of not only this sin, but the parading of it will NOT be accepted by God.

[CaptainTux]

Did not say the Bible was a game. The Bible is the inspired word of God. Please do not twist my words. I said I will not play the Bible memory verse game.

You obviously know your Bible and you have firm views on sin. But I just do not think we see eye to eye on this one. Just as some obsess with the positive of the celebrities and the glamor, you judge them. You are harsher on them and hold them to a higher standard of behavior than you do for me, or for you. I learned a long time ago that if you point a finger around, eventually you will walk smack dab into a mirror.

I suppose I will play the Bible memory verse game. This one has been a mantra for me.

Matthew 7:1-5 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Matthew 7

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I also have found much peace in this one,

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

The only good deed or lovely act that can be done without the tarnish of sin is something done my God. The rest of us are mere mortals. Accepting the good things we do and saying a child is lovely no matter the circumstances of its birth is not relishing in sin. It is not making excuses. Perhaps being honest about my sinful nature may seem that I am giving myself a pass. I am not. Nor do I give others a pass, but I would offer them good news before I tell them what a pin head they are. That is me just compounding the problem.

I have enjoyed the exchange, but I've really nothing else to say to you on this matter. We will enter the circular argument and never come to a conclusion. You see me as one who gives sin a pass with reckless abandon and I see you as one who is judgmental. I can live with that. Lot's of people disagree with me on a great many things.

I am curious? Do you have any car salesmen in your church? If you do, their tithe likely comes from a lie told here and there. They dare to give to the church with ill gotten gains. These celebs are in the dark, the approach of judging them will never break them, it will place them in a defensive position.

[Guest Monica]

Matthew 7:1-5 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Matthew 7

1Judge not, that ye be not judged...

Reread the thread we have already looked at what Matt 7 is about.

Fact remains that God is HOLY and God isnt mocked. God isnt fooled by what is being done under the guise of charity.

First of all Jesus tells us how to give charity.

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

God doesnt recieve all offerings when sin is attached.

Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.

Mal 1:8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, [is it] not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, [is it] not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

Mal 1:12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD [is] polluted; and the fruit thereof, [even] his meat, [is] contemptible. 13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness [is it]! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought [that which was] torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD. Mal 1:14 But cursed [be] the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I [am] a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name [is] dreadful among the heathen.

[CaptainTux]

Is that all there is? The letter of the law? Is that not what someone was trying to free us from?

[Lindy]

But Lindy - Why assume that because, let's say a couple (2 actors) have a had a baby out of wedlock, that that means that couple is wicked? Why even care that that is their choice to not marry but have a family. How does their marital/family status effect you and your choices. Why not just be a little in-different to the things you don't agree with and maybe interested in the things you do agree with. Mankind is not all good or all bad, we are complex beings, there is a lot of grey area into being human.

And when it comes to being an example, isn't that what parents (whether legally married or not) are for? If I have admiration for a particular well-known person it's usually because of what they've done that I can relate to. Take for example Ms. Jolie - when she first adopted her 2nd child, pictures had been taken of the baby and she didn't look like the happiest baby at the time - due to health problems. Fast forward to 6 months later and that baby is the happiest and cutiest you could ever hope to see, which tells me that Ms. Jolie was doing a great job being a loving parent. I admire good parenting skills, I can relate to good parenting skills, so therefore I admire Ms. Jolie for being an excellent parent, IMO.

M.

Maureen~ To me it's not the fact they would have a baby out of wedlock..... I don't look down on that... it happens. I don't even care that they don't get married.... Heck I have a lot of respect for Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn for the dedication they have to each other. It doesn't effect me in the slightest. I'm just not a big Angelina Jolie fan.... I haven't seen anything of hers that interested me talent wise, so I don't follow the "news" around her, and I have no idea what she does or what she doesn't do in her life... all I have ever seen was a front cover tabloid headlines..... "Angelina steals Brad away from Jennifer"... I am not saying I believe any of it... and again no, it doesn't effect me and basically I could care less. I don't like the hoopla around the stars and their private lives.... who is sleeping with whose husband, wife, girlfriends cousins, boyfriends mother. People eat that stuff up..... they stand there reading that garbage that is printed and "ohh, ahhh... can you believe it?" To me it's just demoralizing what they can do and get away with ..and still get the ohhhh's and ahhhh's like it's something special.

I hear or watch things about what the "stars" get away with in REALITY .......... one actress in a hit and run accident.... gets community service! Another steals clothes in a department store.... and gets what? Community service! How many who cheat on their wives/husbands, those who don't' think twice about the bed hopping, or drinking themselves into oblivion and get into fights, or get caught dealing or doing drugs.... get arrested and their hands slapped because of who they are and how much money they make...... It makes me sick! They can be the nicest people in the world... but still use their "star status" to get away with things.... and to me that is just plain wrong.

Yet, I do know that there are some "stars" who do good in this world.... but I couldn't tell you who they are off the top of my head... because I really don't read up on it. I never knew about the children adopted by A. Jolie..... like I said... I don't follow her life. I do know about all the work that Jimmy Carter has done to help out the needy.... I HAVE heard about Paul Newman and his "Newman's Own" I had read about that in a Time magazine or something. I DO know of sports players who do great things for others because they care... and with the money they make....they can.

To be admired by the general public for the good things that one does is a positve thing.... they are deserving of that...I won't deny it. But, I won't buy the tabloids to help support those who make money off of all the hoopla surrounding the "stars"

Now, when I was younger I would buy anything I could with David Cassidy or Jan Michael Vincent.... and eat up all the info I could on their lives..... then I got older and found out they were human....lol Now, like you.... I will read about someone's life who interests me.... and enjoy the good things I find out about them, and I may lose respect for some of the choices they made in their lives.... but I still enjoy the talent they have in performing....

[shanstress70]

Take for example Ms. Jolie - when she first adopted her 2nd child, pictures had been taken of the baby and she didn't look like the happiest baby at the time - due to health problems. Fast forward to 6 months later and that baby is the happiest and cutiest you could ever hope to see, which tells me that Ms. Jolie was doing a great job being a loving parent. I admire good parenting skills, I can relate to good parenting skills, so therefore I admire Ms. Jolie for being an excellent parent, IMO.

I don't know that they do, but I'm guessing that Jolie probably has a nanny, or two or three. Not sure that you can assume that SHE'S the one who is doing a great job parenting. Probably someone behind the scenes is more responsible. Unfortunately, many of these stars have someone else getting up at night with their child, and doing the day to day stuff. I know that's a sweeping generalization, but I'm pretty sure there's some merit to it.

Correct me if I'm wrong and they don't have a nanny, but I'd be surprised.

And just to make myself clear, I don't judge these 'stars' for their 'sinning lifestyles'. We all sin. I just find it annoying to hear about them all the time when there are wonderful people we come across in our everyday lives who don't get the credit that someone like Oprah does.

[CaptainTux]

I just find it annoying to hear about them all the time when there are wonderful people we come across in our everyday lives who don't get the credit that someone like Oprah does.

Shantress, I want to thank you for phrasing an honest statement with no wrath and no judgment, generalization, and assumption on other people who's only crime in life is being famous.

Why doesn't my grandfather get as much recognition as Oprah? Is that Oprah's fault?

Is it Angelina Jolie's fault there is a bidding war for their cute kid's pics but not mine?

Stories will make the news of page one for a reason. We will buy the paper and they will sell more papers. They print what we will buy. This is not a media conspiracy, this is not celebrities wringing their hands in glee as they get credit for things you do every day. Trust me, they want their privacy and desire normalcy more than you will ever fathom. It would make their day to be able to what they love for a living without having to deal with people shoving pens and papers in their face while trying to have a family dinner, paparazzi assaulting their kids and taunting them, stalkers obsessed with them and inadequate laws protecting them from stalkers even after the death of a young girl just getting started in the biz.

The people around us who are wonderful should be recognized. They are not. We can be childish and point out the faults and shortcomings of the celebrities. That is what most school kids do in the play ground. Insult others so they can feel superior. That is called jealousy and insecurity. Or you can give some recognition to those who you feel deserve recognition. Start a thread recognizing your stars, your heroes, and your everyman who rose to meet extraordinary circumstances.

Do something positive. I have heard people make assumptions, judgments, and flat out attacks on people they have never met. They used the Bible to defend their actions, but I have heard few here say anything positive about the people who are not getting recognition that should. Perhaps we are partly to blame for the problem. Perhaps if we stopped complaining about the inequity and just said something about the person we want to see recognized, things may be different.

[Maureen]

I don't know that they do, but I'm guessing that Jolie probably has a nanny, or two or three.

I'm sure Ms. Jolie has a nanny or two, I think it comes with the territory of being an actor. But I'm not going to assume she is not a good mother because she has a nanny. When she and her family were in Edmonton (filming Jesse James movie) they were spotted at WEM just being normal folk, going on rides and being the regular tourist. I really don't think that just because a person is a celebrity, that they cast aside day to day living and convert to the "peel me a grape" philosohpy. They need sleep, they get sick, they go to the bathroom, just like the rest of us, and popularity won't change that, even though fans and stalkers may think so. I would say that the majority of celebs out there are regular folk and its the media and fans that tend to put them on pedestals - celebs really have no control how fans will react to them.

I just find it annoying to hear about them all the time when there are wonderful people we come across in our everyday lives who don't get the credit that someone like Oprah does.

See now Oprah is someone I don't really admire. Some celebs out there do have ego and I think Oprah is one of them. I could be wrong though.

M.

[Guest Monica]

Is that all there is? The letter of the law? Is that not what someone was trying to free us from?

These are the words of Christ:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth are still here.

[CaptainTux]

For you that is all there is than. The law. Fulfillment is about freedom. It is entering the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter. It is no longer about rules and regs and do's and don'ts, it is about don't want to's and a deep desire to. It is about loving the lord your God with all your heart your soul and your strength, it is about loving your neighbor as you love yourself. It is about the meek inheriting the earth and turning the other cheek and not worrying about what others are doing before cleaning your own house. It is about being an ambassador of love and one who shares good news as opposed to being a harbinger of doom. Until that lesson is learned and love is achieved as the greatest commandment gives us...until the news we share is good, then all quotes are meaningless and without soul and life. It is mere tubthumping.

[Lindy]

For you that is all there is than. The law. Fulfillment is about freedom. It is entering the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter. It is no longer about rules and regs and do's and don'ts, it is about don't want to's and a deep desire to. It is about loving the lord your God with all your heart your soul and your strength, it is about loving your neighbor as you love yourself. It is about the meek inheriting the earth and turning the other cheek and not worrying about what others are doing before cleaning your own house. It is about being an ambassador of love and one who shares good news as opposed to being a harbinger of doom. Until that lesson is learned and love is achieved as the greatest commandment gives us...until the news we share is good, then all quotes are meaningless and without soul and life. It is mere tubthumping.

WOW.... I am impressed Captain.... a very good statement, and just ....WOW.

PC .... you've got an assistant here to help out with the inmates if you could convince him. :)

And yes Captn... I think that for Monica that is all there is... black and white... no shades of grey. That is not a bad thing for some people to live by... if that is their thing. It doesn't mean we ALL have to only see things in black and white. That is why we are all different... all have our own agency to chose what to believe, what to follow. There will come a time when we will share the common love of Christ equally... with all the love, heart, soul and life we have. Until than, we just have to accept that others will be different. Doesn't mean we have to approve. Just accept.

[Guest Monica]

For you that is all there is than.

Lets read further in the passage... shall we?

21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

LAW: Exodus 20:14

32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Funny how Jesus quoted the law if its now abolished! I guess Jesus wasnt kidding after all when He said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[CaptainTux]

I agreed with you that he gave us fulfillment of the law, but he also gave freedom from chapter and verse and wearing little headbands on our heads with the Torah strapped to our skull. We know we do not have to carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath. We know that the commanments can be summed up as loving the lord your God with all your heart and soul and strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Jesus was not about dogma, he was about love and passion and he constantly challenged those who lived in dogmatic obsession of the law. He understood the meaning of the words written without having to quote them , he would quote, I am not saying he did not, but Jesus always did so in elegance. He reserved his poison for the ones who live in dogma,

When you translate them into plain english, here are some of Jesus' better shots to the Rabbi's and religious elite......

You nest of snakes!

You are like tombs painted white. Outside, they look fine. But inside they are full of rotteness. You are the same.

You are the children of killers!

You are two-faced!

You make strict rules for people to obey, but you don't even try to follow them yourselves.

You won't learn and you stop other people from learning too.

You fools!

You are full of greed and badness!

You cheat widows and steal their houses. Then you try to look good by saying long prayers.

God will punish you!

Jesus would not be a popular guy with most Christians were He around today. I think He would offend us...and He would be right.

[Guest Monica]

We know we do not have to carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath.

Its evident you havent read the law and dont know what it says. Such is NOT in the law.

I challenge you to show me book chapter and verse that backs up "carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath"

[Guest bizabra]

MONICA SAID: God doesnt recieve all offerings when sin is attached

BIZ: Yeah, but the PEOPLE who are the benficiaries of the money earned by the brangelina baby photoshoot WILL be recieving that particular offering. THEY won't care what god thinks about how it was earned!

How much have YOU personally given in direct charity? Eh? What would YOUR intent be?

<div class='quotemain'>

Is that all there is? The letter of the law? Is that not what someone was trying to free us from?

These are the words of Christ:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth are still here.

BIZ: If this is so, then do you keep kosher? Do you wear a covering on your head at all times? Do you refrain from speaking in church?

If the "law" didn't change after Jesus, then why do not christians STILL keep all the rules and regs that are taught in the old testament? Why are they not still Jews?!

You make no sense and have not though this out fully. You have grasped the letter of the law but not the intent of it. tsk tsk

[Bob_oz]

WOW!

The big single I see on this topic is that the world changes by the example of the few (stars, media etc) and its this change in standards that ever so slowly takes us away from the Gospel and God.

If I had not the Gospel would I marry, frankly, most likely not because its socially acceptable not to, actually its financially benifial sometime not to!

I always find Lindy's comments very sound but I also find Monica very knowligable.

When we consider the individual the Lord expects us to not Judge others, of course we make judgements all the time do I want my children reading this seeing that etc, but the gospel is a wonderful blend of doing your very best and at the same time forgiving the limitations of others.

But when the actions of the few set the tone for the many there comes the issue of the bigger picture, I feel Monica has the big picture pretty well understood, who and what do we stand for?

There are I am sure many others who are lesser lights doing wonderful works from their high station in life but then take a stand on something that offends us, we need to make a stand against the sin and not the sinner for we can be sure that in the end as they influance others so will they be accountable to the Lord.

Bob

[CaptainTux]

<div class='quotemain'>

We know we do not have to carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath.

Its evident you havent read the law and dont know what it says. Such is NOT in the law.

I challenge you to show me book chapter and verse that backs up "carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath"

Ow. I do walk in ignorance of many things, but not this one. Sometimes you have to read the Bible to understand the law and then do a little exegetical study and hermeneutics to discover what else was going on. The best core verse for this would be.....

JER 17:21 and 22

Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

Jewish law had this to mean you could not carry anything out of your home, your property. Common practice for Jews for centuries, and even today by the orthodox, is to strategically place belongings from your home every few feet to wherever it is you intend to go on the Sabbath. By placing a dirty sock a few feet from your home, you extend the boundaries of your property and can move about until your trail of bread crumbs runs dry. This avoided the penalty for desecrating the Sabbath. Let's look at some of the other bits of law regarding the Sabbath, shall we?

You may not work on the Sabbath

Lev. 23:3

Exodus 34:21

You may not cook and prepare food on the Sabbath.

Ex 16:21-30

You can't let your kids, pets, employees, servant staff, and non believer buds staying in your home work on the sabbath.

Ex 20:8-10

Exodus 23:12

Deut 5:12

You cannot light a match, a lighter, a fireplace, turn on a light bulb, or arm your furnace or gas stove.

Exodus 35:3

Doing these things by the law is desecrating the Sabbath. The penalty for desecration of the sabbath according to

Exodus 35:3

and

Num. 15:32-36

is death. Might be why so many got peeved that Jesus broke the law He came to fulfilled in thier legalistic eyes by healing on the seventh day. Jesus response to the ones so concerned that day and the day his disciples took husks of corn from their stalks on the Sabbath shows that Jesus had to educate them that the sabbath law was never intended to be a slavish regulation that functioned as an “end” within itself. He did this be giving exposition of the meaning of the a brief quoted scripture and by telling them that one greater than the temple was there. I am not greater than the temple, but I do mow the lawn and go places on Saturdays. I turn on the lights and cook food.

Anyway, all that is a bit strayed. The main point was an answer to why I said that fulfillment of the law frees one from laying property every few paces to avoid death for violating the law f the sabbath.

[CaptainTux]

To clarify, I did not say Jesus broke he law. The creator of the law may not break the law. I said Jesus broke he law in the eyes of the in their legalistic eyes.

[sgallan]

Wow, what a bummer topic. It started with such potential and turned into a general slam fest between religious folk. I think I am better off just doing what I can in my own little secular way. If some think that I am an evil sinner whose gonna get it from god, then so be it.

[CaptainTux]

Wow, what a bummer topic. It started with such potential and turned into a general slam fest between religious folk. I think I am better off just doing what I can in my own little secular way. If some think that I am an evil sinner whose gonna get it from god, then so be it.

My apologies. I will cease with the in fighting. The bad news is that we are all sinners who deserve to get it. The good news is that we have been offered grace to be freed from sin and live with our Heavenly father for eternity.

God is pure and cannot be in the presence of impurity. A analogy I use is a glass of distilled water. The purified water is God. Dump sewage sludge in it and it is no longer pure. Dump a small drop of food coloring and it is no longer pure. Little or big the sins, we are separated from God from impurity. The sacrifice of Jesus is a cleansing gift that purifies us so we can bask in the presence of God one day.

No law can cleanse us. No set of rules can ever be adhered to by the letter of the law...we do not have it in us. Even if we obey all the rules, but our hearts want something different, we are impure. The blood and the sacrifice give us that purity that we have lost since eden.

I am no different from you. My thoughts are selfish, my desire for impure things is strong. I have no goo that drips off me that does not drip off mere mortals. I have merely accepted the gift offered to me and use the Bible as a guide to how I can live a better life and follow the one who sacrificed for me and try to explain that gift to others.

My apologies for being a poor ambassador of that simple truth.

[prisonchaplain]

Why are we so surprised when people who make know claims to being Christians or Mormons don't live by our social mores?

Not sweeping anything under the rug. I really guess that Jesus guy should have spent more time judging the hookers and lepers as opposed to loving them and wasting all that good recrimination on the religious elitist who used the law to slam the masses he reached out to on the Sabbath.

Judgment begins in the house of God. Rather than condemning those on the outside, we ought to by led by the Holy Spirit in offering them redemption (salvation). Now, if the saints are up to no good, its time for us to put one another in check.

[prisonchaplain]

Its evident you havent read the law and dont know what it says. Such is NOT in the law.

I challenge you to show me book chapter and verse that backs up "carefully lay pieces of property every few paces to get around on the Sabbath"

The way that the Law of Moses is fulfilled today by those who insist on submitting to the law, minus the grace that Christ offers, is through the lense of rabinnic interpretation, as found in the Talmud, and as offered by Jewish scholars. I'm not up on the laying around of pieces of property, but a common practice in heavily Jewish condos is to preset elevators to stop on each floor just prior to the beginning of Sabbath. That way, you can take the elevator without pushing a button, and thus "creating work" (i.e. causing the spark that would tell the elevator where to go, since the starting of the spark would be interpreted as work). Ironically, it would be acceptable to also walk the 10-15 flights to get to your apartment, as that is an acceptable distance to walk on the Sabbath. Do you get the seemingly convulated efforts that go into obeying the letter of the law?

[Guest Monica]

How much have YOU personally given in direct charity? Eh? What would YOUR intent be?

BIZ: If this is so, then do you keep kosher? Do you wear a covering on your head at all times? Do you refrain from speaking in church?

If the "law" didn't change after Jesus, then why do not christians STILL keep all the rules and regs that are taught in the old testament? Why are they not still Jews?!

You make no sense and have not though this out fully. You have grasped the letter of the law but not the intent of it. tsk tsk

As for what we give to charity, Jesus already told us how to do that:

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Now as for keeping kosher are you referring to rabincal kosher or Lev 11 dietary laws?

As for covering my head durring prayer and profesying yes I do that.

And yes i speak in church, but i dont chatter among others durring service as the scripture says.

The way that the Law of Moses is fulfilled today by those who insist on submitting to the law, minus the grace that Christ offers, is through the lense of rabinnic interpretation, as found in the Talmud, and as offered by Jewish scholars. I'm not up on the laying around of pieces of property, but a common practice in heavily Jewish condos is to preset elevators to stop on each floor just prior to the beginning of Sabbath. That way, you can take the elevator without pushing a button, and thus "creating work" (i.e. causing the spark that would tell the elevator where to go, since the starting of the spark would be interpreted as work). Ironically, it would be acceptable to also walk the 10-15 flights to get to your apartment, as that is an acceptable distance to walk on the Sabbath. Do you get the seemingly convulated efforts that go into obeying the letter of the law?

I was referring to what the Bible says not to what people think.

What God says and what people do are two different things.

There is no where in the bible that says that we are to leave papers around for sabbath.

[Guest Monica]

Ow. I do walk in ignorance of many things, but not this one. Sometimes you have to read the Bible to understand the law and then do a little exegetical study and hermeneutics to discover what else was going on. The best core verse for this would be.....

JER 17:21 and 22

Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

This avoided the penalty for desecrating the Sabbath. Let's look at some of the other bits of law regarding the Sabbath, shall we?

You may not work on the Sabbath

Lev. 23:3

Exodus 34:21

You may not cook and prepare food on the Sabbath.

Ex 16:21-30

You can't let your kids, pets, employees, servant staff, and non believer buds staying in your home work on the sabbath.

Ex 20:8-10

Exodus 23:12

Deut 5:12

You cannot light a match, a lighter, a fireplace, turn on a light bulb, or arm your furnace or gas stove.

Exodus 35:3

Doing these things by the law is desecrating the Sabbath. The penalty for desecration of the sabbath according to

Exodus 35:3

and

Num. 15:32-36

is death. Might be why so many got peeved that Jesus broke the law He came to fulfilled in thier legalistic eyes by healing on the seventh day. Jesus response to the ones so concerned that day and the day his disciples took husks of corn from their stalks on the Sabbath shows that Jesus had to educate them that the sabbath law was never intended to be a slavish regulation that functioned as an “end” within itself. He did this be giving exposition of the meaning of the a brief quoted scripture and by telling them that one greater than the temple was there. I am not greater than the temple, but I do mow the lawn and go places on Saturdays. I turn on the lights and cook food.

Anyway, all that is a bit strayed. The main point was an answer to why I said that fulfillment of the law frees one from laying property every few paces to avoid death for violating the law f the sabbath.

And this is a "BAD" thing now? I love keeping the sabbath and resting. I thank God for "commanding" me to take a mandatory day off from work, chores, and everything else. WOW God is sooooo difficult to satisfy now, huh?

If you wanna break the sabbath and work and do whatever, its you who does pay after all. You die if you dont take a rest. Ask any doctor.

As for Jesus healing on the sabbath that is permitted.

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ###### from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering?

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

Now the major misunderstandings in this thread is from ignorance to what the actual law of moses says. Also there is confusion between the law of moses and the law of sin and death.

Remember, when Christ returns and sets up HIS throne on earth, the whole world will be run under God's ways. So if you are serious about having Jesus as your Lord, Savior, and King it may be wise to read the scriptures and find out what God teaches. After all why would you want to be in a kingdom if you didnt like the way its run?

Bottom line is that what I have posted here is all scripture and in context. So your arguement isnt with me at all, but with the word of God.

Nothing said here has disputed the fact that brandgelina is an adulterous liason and has brought forth fruit in sin.