Osama bin Laden is dead

[PrinceofLight2000]

I've got mixed feelings about this.

Yes, I am glad we got rid of someone who was doing harm.

However, did he know right from wrong? He grew up believing to kill, and that's what his life was devoted. He was brainwashed into it, just like we are into our church. He probably chose to stick with his comfortable path because he was only use to killing.

Celebrating and acting as if it's the New Year isn't really the best thing to do. We all know there will be others out there who want to kill us as well.

[HoosierGuy]

A good article by Juan Cole of Informed Comment:

Obama and the End of Al-Qaeda | Informed Comment

Usama Bin Laden was a violent product of the Cold War and the Age of Dictators in the Greater Middle East. He passed from the scene at a time when the dictators are falling or trying to avoid falling in the wake of a startling set of largely peaceful mass movements demanding greater democracy and greater social equity. Bin Laden dismissed parliamentary democracy, for which so many Tunisians and Egyptians yearn, as a man-made and fallible system of government, and advocated a return to the medieval Muslim caliphate (a combination of pope and emperor) instead. Only a tiny fringe of Muslims wants such a theocratic dictatorship.

[JohnnyRudick]

Call me crazy, but I actually have really mixed feelings about this. And I'm not comfortable celebrating the violent death of another human.

My wife told me the news last night while I was laying down with my sick daughter, trying to cool down the room and keep her head elevated so that she could breathe well enough to stop coughing and get a good night's sleep. Now, I can't help but wonder if we'd be this happy about his death if the media had ever played clips showing him playing with his grandchildren, or propping his own child to a position in which he could sleep.

Say what you will about whether or not he ever would have done such a thing, but the point still stands: the man was a human being and, by our doctrine, a fellow son of God. His death is a tragedy.

Even more tragic, however, is the fact that the necessity of his death existed (yes, I am admitting that it needed to be done). So for me, the victory is bittersweet--a tragic end to a tragedy of human existence.

On a happier note, many heartfelt thanks to those men and women who take on these challenges. Their work is precisely why I can let my sick daughter become my only care in the world--even when such big and important news is taking place. For that, I cannot thank them enough.

Kinda reminds me of clips I once watched of

Hitler romping with his dogs and some kids.

[JohnnyRudick]

I experienced a similar sense of cognitive dissonance after the attacks of 9/11. I was patriotic, I was indignant, and I was fearful, just as most of the rest of America was. Yet in the hours and days that followed, I couldn't completely latch onto the idea of war or revenge. Getting revenge made us no better than our attackers. And it would soothe an immediate wound, but wouldn't solve a greater problem. But I wanted it. The terrorists deserved it. But I couldn't shake the idea that I shouldn't be feeling that way about my brothers and sisters.

Today I'm also torn. I'm glad that the terrorist organization has taken a huge hit, and it is definitely an historic time. There's no doubt about that. But someone, somewhere, is hurting for the loss. And I can't help but think that Heavenly Father might be a little sad by how happy so many are over the loss of one of His children.

I see a big difference between "Self Defense" and "Revenge".

I did not see searching out people of the same mindset as those who have

been attacking us all these years (At least from the first bombing of the

World Trade Center) as an act of aggression. Rather more of self defense.

[webmasterteen]

My apologies, but for the most part, if you are born into a religion, then by default you are "brainwashed" into it.

However, as my point was only made halfway (mostly because it didn't need to finish), you may agree that once you reach a certain age you pretty much decide for yourself.

[JohnnyRudick]

My apologies, but for the most part, if you are born into a religion, then by default you are "brainwashed" into it.

However, as my point was only made halfway (mostly because it didn't need to finish), you may agree that once you reach a certain age you pretty much decide for yourself.

That did not seem to be your inference in your original post.

Thanks for the clarification.

I have learned that you have to think a little first before

you hit that "Submit Reply" key:p

I just messed up a few min. ago on another forum:rolleyes:

O' well:cool:

[believer]

:huh:You were joking with him right?

I'm pretty sure terrorists believe they are doing the right thing.

[JohnnyRudick]

:huh:You were joking with him right?

I'm pretty sure terrorists believe they are doing the right thing.

I know that I believe that "terrorists believe they are doing the right thing."

But that does not change the. . .

[believer]

That did not seem to be your inference in your original post.

I have learned that you have to think a little first before

you hit that "Submit Reply" key:p

Take it easy guys. It's alright. It's perfectly normal to believe your church brainwashed you. Most people I know have come to that conclusion at some point. Sometimes it's the right conclusion, other times it's just a part of growing up.

webmasterteen had an interesting and unique perspective. No need trying to police his thoughts.

[believer]

That did not seem to be your inference in your original post.

I have learned that you have to think a little first before

you hit that "Submit Reply" key:p

Take it easy guys. It's alright. It's perfectly normal to believe your church brainwashed you. Most people I know have come to that conclusion at some point. Sometimes it's the right conclusion, other times it's just a part of growing up.

webmasterteen had an interesting and unique perspective in his original post. Brainwashing is relevant to the discussion.

I felt that way about my faith for years and no one was asking me to be a martyr. It just felt that way. Perhaps it has something to do with youth and the strength of your own independent thought life against the thoughts that have been fed you up until that point. Combine that confusion with oppression and brainwashing and things can get violent as we see with terrorists.

Anyhow, enough of that already.

[JohnnyRudick]

Take it easy guys. It's alright. It's perfectly normal to believe your church brainwashed you. Most people I know have come to that conclusion at some point. Sometimes it's the right conclusion, other times it's just a part of growing up.

webmasterteen had an interesting and unique perspective in his original post. Brainwashing is relevant to the discussion.

I felt that way about my faith for years and no one was asking me to be a martyr. It just felt that way. Perhaps it has something to do with youth and the strength of your own independent thought life against the thoughts that have been fed you up until that point. Combine that confusion with oppression and brainwashing and things can get violent as we see with terrorists.

Anyhow, enough of that already.

Now as for Terrorists thinking that they. . .

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Osama Bin Laden's last word:

"Durka?"

[HoosierGuy]

White House is backing off the story that bin Laden used his wife as a shield -

Bin Laden's Wife Not Killed In Raid, White House Says | TPM News Pages

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A woman killed during the raid of Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan was not his wife and was not used as a human shield by the al Qaeda leader before his death, a U.S. official said on Monday, correcting an earlier description.

[bytor2112]

I think the Vatican has got it right:

"In the face of a man’s death, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibilities of each person before God and before men, and hopes and works so that every event may be the occasion for the further growth of peace and not of hatred." - Vatican Statement on the Death of Bin Laden

[JohnnyRudick]

White House is backing off the story that bin Laden used his wife as a shield -

Bin Laden's Wife Not Killed In Raid, White House Says | TPM News Pages

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A woman killed during the raid of Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan was not his wife and was not used as a human shield by the al Qaeda leader before his death, a U.S. official said on Monday, correcting an earlier description.

I believe the shield story.

I think that would explain why he was shot in the face.

They can say anything they like - now that we found it our duty to

throw the body over board in order to please the. . .

[Traveler]

Reading between the lines I believe there is much more to consider of this story. I would believe that at the compound there was much more of greater value in the fight against terrorism that the man Osama bin Laden. I would think there were documents and “keys” to the kingdom over which Osama resided that now we have and know their secrets. The hidden exposure of what we now have of governments and individuals all over the world is in our hands.

Let us pray that such knowledge will be used to bring freedom to many more than must the threatened citizens of the USA.

The Traveler

[JohnnyRudick]

Reading between the lines I believe there is much more to consider of this story. I would believe that at the compound there was much more of greater value in the fight against terrorism that the man Osama bin Laden. I would think there were documents and “keys” to the kingdom over which Osama resided that now we have and know their secrets. The hidden exposure of what we now have of governments and individuals all over the world is in our hands.

Let us pray that such knowledge will be used to bring freedom to many more than must the threatened citizens of the USA.

The Traveler

I never considered that Osama or anyone else we might suspect

was in a position to hold such . . .

[Gramajane]

I wish it had been his own terrorists who had finally repented and realized that he was evil and leading them to do evil-- but then the non repent ones would probably have just lied and blamed it on the U.S. anyway-- so whatever.

-- I am glad that he didn't "get away" with his crimes.

__ I understand that he used a woman as a shield -- hiding behind her live body (probably his wife?) and she died too.

what a poor excuse of a man.

Maybe he and Hitler can commiserate together over who was the "greatest"?

[MarginOfError]

I wish it had been his own terrorists who had finally repented and realized that he was evil and leading them to do evil-- but then the non repent ones would probably have just lied and blamed it on the U.S. anyway-- so whatever.

-- I am glad that he didn't "get away" with his crimes.

__ I understand that he used a woman as a shield -- hiding behind her live body (probably his wife?) and she died too.

what a poor excuse of a man.

Maybe he and Hitler can commiserate together over who was the "greatest"?

The report that Bin Laden used his wife as a shield has been discounted.

[pam]

This was an interesting article on whether people should rejoice or not:

Is it morally right to celebrate bin Laden's death? – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

[Traveler]

As a follow on to my previous post - if there are reprisals towards other governments and individuals in high places complicit in assisting terrorism we will make progress.

However, I listened to a few minutes of Rush Limbaugh yesterday on this subject - and he is no patriot or a person of honored opinion in my mind.

The Traveler

[Guest]

However, I listened to a few minutes of Rush Limbaugh yesterday on this subject - and he is no patriot or a person of honored opinion in my mind.

The Traveler

Why, what did he say?

[bnaur]

I will not celebrate any persons death.

In a public address, Dr. King stated:

“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many

people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So

tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God

has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.

We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the

soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical

weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take

up the ammunition of love.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -

[webmasterteen]

That did not seem to be your inference in your original post.

Thanks for the clarification.

I have learned that you have to think a little first before

you hit that "Submit Reply" key:p

I just messed up a few min. ago on another forum:rolleyes:

O' well:cool:

I am glad that I clarified it for you.

And about the brainwashed comment reply, yes I can agree that really, everyone is branwashed to believe what they grow up doing is right.

However, it is stupid to assume that by the time you are 18 (or even around 16) that you still "follow orders". I CHOSE to still go to church. I CHOSE to keep the commandments and follow my leader's advice. I CHOSE, not my parents.

[Traveler]

Why, what did he say?

He refused to give the president any credit for seeing it through and suggested it was all for policial reasons.

The Traveler