The punishment of God or just paranoia?

[CommanderSouth]

As some of you may remember I have voiced concern over things of a high fantasy nature in the past. That is, I worry that the trappings of things of that nature are wrong for me as they are demons, and magic, and monsters and such.

Well, I have been thinking today and I realized, I always seem to have felt, even when I wasn't a member, and was back in the pentecostal church, that the punishment of God was always ready to come down on me at any moment, like I was doing something wrong and always in danger of being caught.

There have been times when I was playing RPGs, and such, or Magic The Gathering, or whatever and I didn't have any issues. I remember specifically up until I was about 16 I had no issues, but one night in a church service it all hit me like a ton of bricks, that this stuff as unholy and was horrible and the like. Mind you, my parents kept me from watching the Ninja Turtles once they found out Splinter meditated, and the Smurfs when they found out about Gargamel, though for some reason I was able to watch Eureka's Castle, and she was a sorceress in training. So I came up in the whole D&D is Satan type of culture.

More recently though I noticed I always feel like the general authorities can see right through me and I am not hiding anything from them, and they and God know I am playing Warhammer 40k, and it is horrible, and I am playing RPGs and they are the spawn of Satan. Thing is, I have talked to members in my ward who have 40k armies, my insitute leader has no issue with high fantasy from what I can gather, and says I shouldn't worry about it, just get back in church (Aside from institute I have been inactive for a while) and see where those feelings go.

All I know is that today I don't know that I have done anything wrong, yet I feel the sword looming over my head. Odder still is that I have been in the bible heavily the last two days, and am trying to read through in 40 days, so needless to say I haven't been disregarding scripture reading. But with all that I feel like I am "filthy rags" because I am not perfect. I read "be ye perfect" and I am not, and I don't know how God can accept me. Moroni says If ye deny yourselves of all ungodliness THEN his grace is sufficient for you, that is a standard I don't feel I can live up to. I play M rated games, I don't watch R rated movies, but I feel like I am unclean, even though as it stands, I haven't done anything wrong since I last repented (and talked things over with my bishop, which was on graduating insitute, not these feelings).

I appologize for being longwinded and using the boards as a shrink, but I just wanted to see what you all thought. I don't know, maybe I am right and I need to throw all the Final Fantasies I have (which is all of them) in a fire, or maybe my head ins't screwed on straight. Either way, all thoughts are welcome, and appreciate very much.

Thanks!

[CommanderSouth]

And I do know I have posted the central issue with D&D and the like before, so I wanted to approach this from more of the angle of it seems I may be too hard on myself about things, and this is the only scapegoat of unrighteous behavior I can think of to pin guilt on.

Right now I am 25 heading towards the closing window of mission possibility, and am not in a position to serve as much as others in my ward, but I feel the same feelings in relation to that. Not serving a mission would be not listening to the prophet, even when some people think I may not be required to by the lord due to my circumstances. I can't shake the guilt. Even when those whose counsel I seek say I am/may be in the right, I feel wrong. I think that is the issue I am fighting with. Perhaps it is the issue of forgiveness of self...

Edited May 4, 2011 by CommanderSouth

[PrinceofLight2000]

It's a work of fiction. The way I see it is that each work of fiction takes place in an alternate universe which may have different laws applied to it by that universe's deity, definitely not a foreign concept for us LDS. Think about it for a moment. Let me use fire and blizzard magic as a small example. To make fire, you need oxygen, fuel, and energy. To make ice, you need water and less energy. One is still manipulating matter to produce the fire and snow. In this sense, the only difference between magic in a game and what our technology inside flamethrowers and freezers do is that the ability for humans to control these laws of physics is different. I'd argue it works the same for all other sorts of magic. In other words, magic is just another form of technology. I always thought the Harry Potter books pointed that out well by putting the magic world and a fictitious equivalent of our world side by side.

Regardless, I think the only real aspect you should be focusing on with caution is the message. I, too, am a fellow Final Fantasy fan. Don't get rid of them. They contain wonderful things. I'd sooner ditch them because of the language than what you're troubled over, and there are remedies to that.

Lastly, I've posted about this issue in another thread, except it involved violence and not magic. Let me see if I can find it and I'll edit it in. I put down stuff from a game that I felt was really uplifting.

EDIT: Found it!

Edited May 4, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[Suzie]

my parents kept me from watching the Ninja Turtles once they found out Splinter meditated, and the Smurfs when they found out about Gargamel

Oh wow, really???

Could it be that because of the way you was raised you feel guilty about playing RPG's?(not really because of God's "punishment", but simply feeling guilty).

[marshac]

RPGs (the video game type) used to be one of my favorite genres- Chrono Trigger was/is the best game ever. Now i'm more into RTS, but still.... do you have an ensign or conference talk reference as to why I should consider my previous gaming habits as sinful? What's wrong with warhammer? A good friend of mine plays that... he spends HOURS painting those little things... it's a hobby.

[JudoMinja]

In and of themselves, there is nothing wrong with RPG games. I think the guilt you are feeling mainly stems from the way you were raised. Yes, true witchcraft is wrong as its power does not come from the Lord, but playing high fantasy games is not the same as practicing witchcraft.

[Guest]

Judo and I are both Drizzt fans. No, I don't play D&D, but I know of a lot of good people that do. Nothing wrong with that unless you neglect the wife because you're too busy playing the game...

:)

[blackknight5k]

Dude...I think I own more RPG systems than I have religious books at this point. The only problem I feel with PnP RPGs and games like 40k is that there is so much time you devote to them (if you're the GM). Right now I feel like my time would be better focused in other areas - however at times I miss sitting around the table rolling dice and pretending to be an axe swinging Dwarf of awesomeness. Right now my wife and I have a newborn and my 5 year old needs attention. I have a new job opportunity arising and a million other things going on that trump gaming. Maybe one day I will feel that it's ok to have a "game night" at the local game store, but right now my wife and I just play some easier games we have around the house that are quick and easy to play.

Don't beat yourself up over it man.

[JudoMinja]

At times I miss sitting around the table rolling dice and pretending to be an axe swinging Dwarf of awesomeness.

That reminds me so much of my boffering days. Not many know what boffering is- you basically go out and beat each other up with padded weapons. The weapons are padded so that we don't have to be euncumbered by wearing pads ourselves, and we are encouraged to dress up in midieval costume. It took me awhile to find out what weapons I should go with as what I thought I would like did not at all match my own personal fighting style. As anatess mentioned, I am a Drizzt fan, so I wanted to dual-wield. :) I just wasn't any good at it. Turned out, my killer combination was a shield and flail. Everyone called me "the dwarf" because I was great at setting up defensive strategies and I was so short people could rarely get their weapons around my shield. I liked going for people's legs and swinging my flail around other's shields to hit them in the backside.

Ah, those were the days.

[Blackmarch]

As some of you may remember I have voiced concern over things of a high fantasy nature in the past. That is, I worry that the trappings of things of that nature are wrong for me as they are demons, and magic, and monsters and such.

Well, I have been thinking today and I realized, I always seem to have felt, even when I wasn't a member, and was back in the pentecostal church, that the punishment of God was always ready to come down on me at any moment, like I was doing something wrong and always in danger of being caught.

There have been times when I was playing RPGs, and such, or Magic The Gathering, or whatever and I didn't have any issues. I remember specifically up until I was about 16 I had no issues, but one night in a church service it all hit me like a ton of bricks, that this stuff as unholy and was horrible and the like. Mind you, my parents kept me from watching the Ninja Turtles once they found out Splinter meditated, and the Smurfs when they found out about Gargamel, though for some reason I was able to watch Eureka's Castle, and she was a sorceress in training. So I came up in the whole D&D is Satan type of culture.

More recently though I noticed I always feel like the general authorities can see right through me and I am not hiding anything from them, and they and God know I am playing Warhammer 40k, and it is horrible, and I am playing RPGs and they are the spawn of Satan. Thing is, I have talked to members in my ward who have 40k armies, my insitute leader has no issue with high fantasy from what I can gather, and says I shouldn't worry about it, just get back in church (Aside from institute I have been inactive for a while) and see where those feelings go.

All I know is that today I don't know that I have done anything wrong, yet I feel the sword looming over my head. Odder still is that I have been in the bible heavily the last two days, and am trying to read through in 40 days, so needless to say I haven't been disregarding scripture reading. But with all that I feel like I am "filthy rags" because I am not perfect. I read "be ye perfect" and I am not, and I don't know how God can accept me. Moroni says If ye deny yourselves of all ungodliness THEN his grace is sufficient for you, that is a standard I don't feel I can live up to. I play M rated games, I don't watch R rated movies, but I feel like I am unclean, even though as it stands, I haven't done anything wrong since I last repented (and talked things over with my bishop, which was on graduating insitute, not these feelings).

I appologize for being longwinded and using the boards as a shrink, but I just wanted to see what you all thought. I don't know, maybe I am right and I need to throw all the Final Fantasies I have (which is all of them) in a fire, or maybe my head ins't screwed on straight. Either way, all thoughts are welcome, and appreciate very much.

Thanks!

Fear of God is good, as long as it causes you to be humble and to repent.. however if it has gotten to the point that it locks you up from making choices then it has become unhealthy, and is not the godly fear, but the fear that satan tries to drive into us... IF that seems to be more the case then maybe checking with a professional psychologist might be profitable for you.

With games like WH40K, D&D, and etc... the potential problem with it is how you play it, who you play it with, and if you let it consume your life, not the game itself.

Some games probably should be ditched (such as Diablo 1.. still trying to get rid of that one myself), the most recent modernwarfare ones and etc...

Edited May 4, 2011 by Blackmarch

[rameumptom]

There is nothing wrong with D&D, etc. What is wrong is when they become addictive, or the replace the spiritual things in our lives. If, instead of reading the scriptures and attending church, you are playing 40K, THEN I would agree repentance is necessary, as well as a change in your life.

Do not think, however, that God is an angry God, just waiting to burn you at the stake. He is patient and merciful. He wants you to return, and so prepares a way for all of us.

It seems that you misunderstand mercy and grace. Many members do.

Christ's grace gives salvation to almost all mankind. We are saved from death and hell: the death of body and spirit, through resurrection and atonement. In 2 Nephi 23, we read that we are saved by grace "after all we can do." Well, most of us do not understand what that means. According to Anti-Nephi-Lehi, king of the repentant Lamanites, "all that we could do... to repent" (Alma 24:11).

11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—

Keeping the commandments come into play into what type of being we become. If we are telestial, then we shall gain a telestial glory/reward. If we have become terrestrial and abide a terrestrial law, then we shall receive a terrestrial glory. And the valiant who abide a celestial law shall be celestial (D&C 88).

You are not a wicked, terrible person. Nor are you valiant in your testimony of Christ. You are not cast off forever into hell because of your games. However, you may lose out on exaltation, if gaming replaces spiritual things in your life.

[Blackmarch]

That reminds me so much of my boffering days. Not many know what boffering is- you basically go out and beat each other up with padded weapons. The weapons are padded so that we don't have to be euncumbered by wearing pads ourselves, and we are encouraged to dress up in midieval costume. It took me awhile to find out what weapons I should go with as what I thought I would like did not at all match my own personal fighting style. As anatess mentioned, I am a Drizzt fan, so I wanted to dual-wield. :) I just wasn't any good at it. Turned out, my killer combination was a shield and flail. Everyone called me "the dwarf" because I was great at setting up defensive strategies and I was so short people could rarely get their weapons around my shield. I liked going for people's legs and swinging my flail around other's shields to hit them in the backside.

Ah, those were the days.

you used padding????

Unfortunately I can't say we did. at least beyond face mask, jeans and electrician tape. Only had swords tho.

[JudoMinja]

you used padding????

You misread me. I said:

The weapons are padded so that we don't have to be euncumbered by wearing pads ourselves

We didn't even wear face masks. Rules said, we could only go for blows below the neck. People were rarely accidentally hit in the face, and if they were it was minor.

We had a huge variety of weapons to choose from too. It was great. We got enough people involved that we had a "boffering club" started at the college and even went to competitions. We had swords, broadswords, hammers, javelins, spears, slings-n-stones, bows-n-arrows, axes, flails, maces, daggers, short-swords, and shields of all sizes. We did one-on-one combat, group combat, and full-scale battles. I loved it!

Edited May 4, 2011 by JudoMinja

[Gatekeeper]

And I do know I have posted the central issue with D&D and the like before, so I wanted to approach this from more of the angle of it seems I may be too hard on myself about things, and this is the only scapegoat of unrighteous behavior I can think of to pin guilt on.

Right now I am 25 heading towards the closing window of mission possibility, and am not in a position to serve as much as others in my ward, but I feel the same feelings in relation to that. Not serving a mission would be not listening to the prophet, even when some people think I may not be required to by the lord due to my circumstances. I can't shake the guilt. Even when those whose counsel I seek say I am/may be in the right, I feel wrong. I think that is the issue I am fighting with. Perhaps it is the issue of forgiveness of self...

CommaderSouth, it seems that our society sometimes places too much value in passive acceptance of the enthusiasm of youth. Play your games and cherish your spiritually- balanced hobbies. God is reasonable and not a god of wrath and torture.

Punishment of God (or being caught up in sin) is, most of the time, common in all human experience and one’s thoughts and fears; don’t be overwhelmed by it. And all feel worse in God’s (and His prophets) presence and ashamed. Christ overcame shame in sin by furnishing your heart with His precious blood. Behold His glory and delight in only your godly triumphs.

You are a charismatic young man; and you are earnestly seeking to be at rest and peace in service to Christ.

As for paranoia, there is quite possibly none as far as this matter is concerned. To be paranoid, you would be blaming someone else for your difficulties, or placing your unethical desires on someone else. Furthermore, your comments here have no strange, unusual, or uncommon human transgression or wrongdoing. In fact, you consciously display remorseful feeling and emotions (such as your personal interest mentioned here), which is natural, and there is nothing ailing about that matter.

As far as your desire to serve a mission one day, speak with your stake Mission President. He will advise you well.

[Dravin]

Oh wow, really???

Could it be that because of the way you was raised you feel guilty about playing RPG's?(not really because of God's "punishment", but simply feeling guilty).

I knew someone who wouldn't let their children watch Disney's Hercules because it was pagan. I really struggle not to mock them but it helps me to realize that somewhere someone is probably thinking the same thing about my parents not letting any R-rated movies in the house. For the record I'm not accusing you of mocking, I'm just using you as a springboard for my own thoughts.

As far as the acceptability of fantasy in entertainment, I don't see anything wrong with it. Of course I'm biased as I'm into RPGs and I tend towards preferring High Fantasy.