Scouting expenses?

[Delanie]

Okay, this is kind of the reason I'm here at the board because we recently had a Scout meeting in my ward where the subject of how pricey it is came up.

I know the Church pays for it all, but does anyone have any tips for staying within a reasonable budget?

[MarginOfError]

The Church pays for registration/rechartering fees. Activities and supplies are paid for by the ward budget. If budget funds are insufficient to cover the cost of the annual camp, local leaders may ask the families to come up with all or part of the cost. Local units may have one fundraiser per year to help pay the costs of annual camps and equipment for those camps.

Given the cost of activities, campsite registrations, supplies, etc, my best advice for staying within a reasonable budget is to join a non-Church sponsored troop that has a reasonable operating budget.

[Delanie]

Which is a good idea but doesn't change the fact I'm on the ward troop committee.

[Guest saintish]

I'm not sure what you're driving at. there are a lot of variables in the OP. Define reasonable, whats resonable for a large ward with many active scouts may not be so for a small ward. I know my ward did away with varsity and venture scouting because there werent enough boys to justify having them. Summer camp and/or week long LDS encampments are really the only two items that should cause any problems in your budget. the cost of one campout a month should be neglagible.

where is all your money going?

[Backroads]

Do anyone know if the Church still allows fundraisers for the extra activities? In my office we recommend, at least to the older kids, to dual register in a community Venturing unit and get the opportunity to REALLY be Venturers and not just be in a handy age grouping.

Speaking of which... if the budget problem is on the registering/rechartering and you're not happy with how much you're billing the Church, consider what you're actually doing with the Scouting. If you're not really doing the Venturing/Varsity programs and just using them as place holders while the boys just concentrate on merit badges, why not drop them? That saves... oh, like twenty bucks a year, but it's something.

There's something else I see all the time as I work in a highly Mormon area...

I do not mean to be controversial and say the bishop is not receiving inspiration... but sometimes wards change callings FAR too many times in a year. This means people are potentially being moved in and out of the Scouting program.

Here's a quick run-down of how it works. Keep in mind the BSA doesn't care if you're LDS or not.

Your average charter lasts for a year. There's plenty of exceptions to this, but from what I can tell your standard BSA local council likes to keep most of their charters renewing and ending together, and the usual outcome is a charter that lasts a year.

Right now, it's 15$ a year per person (we can sit and complain about that cost and I'll agree with you, but that's not what we're talking about right now). Now, if so-n-so registers a few months after the charter has begun, the fee is prorated and he will pay less so everything is fair. If so-n-so knows he is only going to be with a troop for a certain period of time, when he registers he can be charged for only three months or whatever--as long as the registrar has an expiration date for so-n-so.

To connect these things... Sister Betty is registered with the pack. Now, next month Sister Betty's calling will change and yank her right out of Scouting, but at this point we don't know that. So Sister Betty's ward (technically the church) winds up paying the full 15$ for her.

As people are pulled in and out of Scouting willy-nilly, they are all being charged for more than they are actually using.

Now in a highly Mormon area like mine, registrars seem to be fearful of expiring Scoutmaster Billy when Scoutmaster Joey takes his place. What if two months down the road Scoutmaster Billy receives another Scouting position? So after discussing this with all the powers that be, it is quite common to simply make Scoutmaster Billy a member of the committee. It's a lovely generic position that keeps Scoutmaster Billy paid and thus avaialbe for when he is needed again.

But whoever is in charge of Scouting in the ward might not know this (yes, bad registrars for not explaining). He might think "Oh no! We no longer have the necessary two members of committee!" not realizing what has become of Billy. So he gets the bishop to call two more people... who are then charged.

It really adds up.

I don't know why so many wards seem to change leaders every few months, but I see it quite a bit.

My suggestion is to call people, around charter renewal time, to Scouting positions and KEEP THEM THERE for at least most of the year.

I also suggest looking at just how many people you need. You can give Billy or Joe or Betty more than one position amongst your potentially four units. Since it's per person, not position, they only pay once.

But I guess if people feel inspired to make changes, what can you do...

[Delanie]

I'm not sure what you're driving at. there are a lot of variables in the OP. Define reasonable, whats resonable for a large ward with many active scouts may not be so for a small ward. I know my ward did away with varsity and venture scouting because there werent enough boys to justify having them. Summer camp and/or week long LDS encampments are really the only two items that should cause any problems in your budget. the cost of one campout a month should be neglagible.

where is all your money going?

Registration, actually. Again, we all know it comes from the Church, but we have a very frugal stake president.

Actually, Backroads, we do change leaders quite a bit...

[MarginOfError]

Registration, actually. Again, we all know it comes from the Church, but we have a very frugal stake president.

Actually, Backroads, we do change leaders quite a bit...

Your stake president may not be doing it right. Scout registration is a reimbursable expense. I'm pretty sure the stake gets reimbursed for registration expenses. If he's paying it with stake budget, he really ought to reconsider what he's doing.

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7113-Ward-Rechartering-Costs&p=58344#post58344

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7715-Paying-for-Scouting-registration-yearly&highlight=scouting+registration

[Guest saintish]

I second what MOE said, registration shouldn't effect your budget that much.

[MarginOfError]

I'm not sure what you're driving at. there are a lot of variables in the OP. Define reasonable, whats resonable for a large ward with many active scouts may not be so for a small ward. I know my ward did away with varsity and venture scouting because there werent enough boys to justify having them. Summer camp and/or week long LDS encampments are really the only two items that should cause any problems in your budget. the cost of one campout a month should be neglagible.

Really? Around here, reserving a campsite for a group of 10 runs about $25 - $30. A cabin will cost about $150 for a weekend. Food runs at about $8 per person. Equipment and supplies add up as well.

For a troop of 10 boys, it isn't unreasonable to expect costs to add up to average $120 per month for camp outs alone. That's $1200 per year, and the ward gets at most $980 per year for those 10 boys if they all attend church regularly and if the stake doesn't claim any percentage of the young men allocation. Then you still have the cost of awards and other things, which aren't cheap.

Running a scout program costs quite a bit more than you'd expect.

[Guest saintish]

Really? Around here, reserving a campsite for a group of 10 runs about $25 - $30. A cabin will cost about $150 for a weekend. Food runs at about $8 per person.

well there's your problem, when i was involved with the scouts we never rented a cabin, always slept in tents (thats real camping anyways), usually stayed at sites that were either free or had scout/ youth group discounts (but $25-$30 is prolly still the same amount) and the boys always brought there own food from home. (either they would each bring parts of one meal or one boy would bring breakfast, one lunch, etc.)

[Backroads]

Your stake president may not be doing it right. Scout registration is a reimbursable expense. I'm pretty sure the stake gets reimbursed for registration expenses. If he's paying it with stake budget, he really ought to reconsider what he's doing.

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7113-Ward-Rechartering-Costs&p=58344#post58344

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7715-Paying-for-Scouting-registration-yearly&highlight=scouting+registration

That's my guess.

I've heard that the church wants the boys registered until they're 21 (which is one argument for keeping the Venturing programs intact) so it's not like the Church is trying to save money here.

I have seen a few incidents where the stake will pay for a few things here and there out of their own pockets and they usually have decent reasoning for doing so, but the Church seems okay with paying for the Scouting.

[MarginOfError]

well there's your problem, when i was involved with the scouts we never rented a cabin, always slept in tents (thats real camping anyways), usually stayed at sites that were either free or had scout/ youth group discounts (but $25-$30 is prolly still the same amount) and the boys always brought there own food from home. (either they would each bring parts of one meal or one boy would bring breakfast, one lunch, etc.)

my troop rents a cabin in January, February, and March. Given the winters here (subzero temps at night), tent camping is much too likely to result in near tragedy.

I'd be uncomfortable expecting families to provide the meals for a troop campout given the stipulations against undue burdens on families. Just doesn't seem quite right.

[Backroads]

If you go to an official set-up BSA camp, there is mroe to consider than cabins and whatnot. In those cases and with my knowledge, I would really suggest looking at your own situation.

I worked five summers at a camp that offered a dining hall option, and it was fairly popular. I was iffy about it as it was surprisingly expensive and you didn't get THAT much food that was THAT good. I would then see some small troop that brought their own food for less. But... I'm sure that if you had a huge troop you had to feed doing the dining hall is the most cost effective.

Then there's the fact you are paying for the camp. In my council, it's the camps that pretty much get us much of the money the council runs on.

My husband had it good. He grew up in the middle of nowhere. They could literally go camping on the bishop's property and still have it be serious and real camping miles away from anything. For free.

[Backroads]

Your stake president may not be doing it right. Scout registration is a reimbursable expense. I'm pretty sure the stake gets reimbursed for registration expenses. If he's paying it with stake budget, he really ought to reconsider what he's doing.

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7113-Ward-Rechartering-Costs&p=58344#post58344

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?7715-Paying-for-Scouting-registration-yearly&highlight=scouting+registration

By the way, MOE, I'm considering a way to take the infor from these links and including those in charter renewal packets.... this is great stuff.

[Guest saintish]

I don't know that it is "expected" but i can definitely see your reasoning. we hardly ever had more than 5 or 6 boys so the amount of food never amounted to more that what they would have ate if they would have stayed home.

[Backroads]

I'm looking at another angle of this. I mentioned all the cool things Varsity and Venturing scouts can do. You might be able to keep your Cubs and your Boy Scouts around and work on their merit badges and belt loops and all that and not use a heck of a lot of the ward budget, but the reason I encourage community Venturing troops is that they do LOTS OF COOL STUFF!!!!

And LOTS OF COOL STUFF!!!! can cost money.

I kind of which there were ways to increase the ward budgets...

[MarginOfError]

I don't know that it is "expected" but i can definitely see your reasoning. we hardly ever had more than 5 or 6 boys so the amount of food never amounted to more that what they would have ate if they would have stayed home.

And in all fairness, I'll always try to make the case that scouting is a substandard program in the Church. That's just my bias, and I'm not likely to change my mind. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

[Backroads]

And in all fairness, I'll always try to make the case that scouting is a substandard program in the Church. That's just my bias, and I'm not likely to change my mind. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Preach on, brother. Preach on.

[NeuroTypical]

As a daddy of daughters, I hereby command everyone to get together and resolve all these important issues in the Scouting program, so it can get back to performing it's main purpose - providing my daughters with an adequate dating pool. I write out my Friends of Scouting check every year to forward this agenda.

[Vort]

Take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'll drink to that.

[MarginOfError]

ick...salty drinks...nasty

[Vort]

I have something of a lukewarm attitude toward Scouting. On the one hand, I think it tends to be exclusionary by its very nature, emphasizing as it does outdoor activities. I think that, in general, LDS troops tend to be poorly run. I think that Scouting ends up being yet another checklist for us to try to run through. I think it's easy to allow Scouting to go on autopilot, thereby losing the good it might do.

On the other hand, Scouting has done my sons a lot of good. One of my oldest son's real life landmarks was working to finish his Eagle Scout project and requirements at (literally) the last minute; he finished minutes before midnight the day before his birthday. It was a huge and difficult push, but I think it did him a world of good. It might well serve as a turning point in his life and a foundation upon which his imminent mission and future life accomplishments will be built, at least in part. My other sons, too, have benefited from the guidance and care of very good men in leadership positions. They are comfortable handling knives, tying off ropes, and other basic camping stuff, which skills ought not be underrated. And once they turn 14 and enter the Varsity program, the camping emphasis very greatly lessens, and they have the chance to do all sorts of other stuff, including some very cool things.

I think the weaknesses of LDS Church-sponsored Scouting are most or all due to the failings of the leadership, either to set the program up or to lead and inspire the young men to push it forward. If the program ran as it should, I think it would be a stunning success. And as long as it doesn't run as it should, I see no reason to believe that any other program would fare better.

[MarginOfError]

anyway, after two whole pages of expounding upon the problems of Church scouting, perhaps we ought to get to the actual question. Kudos to saintish for actually giving some suggestions.

The big recommendation I can give is look for cheap campgrounds.

My other recommendation is shady, and there will be many who criticize it. But you have to game the fundraiser loop hole. You're allowed a single fundraiser each year to help pay for the cost of the annual camp and associated equipment. Aim big, and use your funds raised to buy equipment like tents, cook kits, stoves, and other basic camping gear. It's a lot easier to run an effective program if you have the proper equipment and don't need to try and borrow it all the time.

The funds raised are not supposed to be a slush fund to allow extraordinary activities, but I have no qualms about using any leftover money from the fundraiser to pay for camp site reservations or to offset the cost of food on your monthly trips.

It isn't enough to try and figure out how to make it work in the coming months. You also need to have a vision for what you want the program to look like in 5 years and 10 years. Make a proposal and present it to your committee and bishop. If you can sell them on a sustainable program, you'll make the program a lot more successful.

[Backroads]

After convincing a Scoutmaster today to discuss this with me...

I add to my suggestions regarding registration.... better planning. What do you want done? What are the ultimate activities you can do? Aim for those and then finangled your budge accordingly. Don't be wishy-washy with it.

[Delanie]

Thanks everyone!