Will American Jews Sell Out Israel?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

With Barack Obama announcing a radical shift in U.S. policy toward Israel, some are looking to the response of Jewish politicians, most of which are fellow Democrats.

Andrew Wilkow (wilkow majority on XM Sirius) is questioning whether Jews in Congress will stand up to Obama in support of their faith or go along with the Left's inherent anti-Israel sentiment.

I think that liberal Jews will accept the "reasonable" concessions that the president is calling for whereby Israel recedes to its pre 1967 borders and a Palestinian state, to include much of Jerusalem, is established. I think that as it has been in the past, it will be evangelical Christians who will support Israel against this assault on its sovereignty.

What do you think?

[Netgood]

I can't believe that during these Muslim uprisings where the dictators would love to distract their protestors with a war against Israel and the new democracies would like to end treaties with Israel that a political leader is calling on Israel to abandon its fortifications to the enemy and retreat.

[prisonchaplain]

OP is right...we evangelicals are more pro-Israel than most Jews. I very much want to take my family to see the Holy Land in a few years, and hope that the political waters are not too poisonous by then.

[LDSJewess]

OP is right...we evangelicals are more pro-Israel than most Jews. I very much want to take my family to see the Holy Land in a few years, and hope that the political waters are not too poisonous by then.

I am not exactly what you meant by your post, however one common mistake most non-Jews make is that they think of Jews as a religious group. So stating that "evangelicals" (which is defined as a religious group), support Israel more than Jews (not defined as a religious group), is not exactly accurate. Indeed you cannot refer to Jews as one large group that thinks and believes by consensus the way other religious groups do.

In just about any Jewish community you will here Jews say: "Put 20 Jews in a room and you get 20 different opinions." And that statement is much more true than not.

The reason is that while in other religions such as the LDS church, or the evangelical churches, there is a creed of sorts where the consensus is a unified core belief, and the churches dictate how members should think and believe.

However, Jews are a nationality by birth and they are the smallest population of a minority group in the world. Yet even still, they are the most diverse.

Education, seeking of one's individual truth, and the questioning of just about everything is not only customary, it is more often than not encouraged.

The population of the State of Israel is comprised approxinmately 75 percent Jews (Christian, Muslims and other religions make up the other 25 percent. And of that approximately 42 percent of the Jews define themselves as secular.

But regardless of their religious or political views, it is mandatory that Israeli citizens serve in the IDF, and Jews of every religious stream gladly support Israel.

In the United States approximately 60 percent of "affiliated" Jews belong to the Reform Movement which is socially and religiously liberal. (Affiliated Jews are defined as those who are members of a synagogue or Jewish community Center). 20 percent of American Jews are secular and the trend seems to be going in that direction. Although to be fair, a number of would be affiliated Jews may choose to be unaffiliated due to economics as synagogue membership requires that annual dues are paid, (not tithing as LDS but as in receiving an invoice).

There are Jews that are more traditional, keep Kosher and live by Halllacha. There are Jews that attend synagogue or are socially active in a Jewish community. There are Messianic Jews who belive in Jesus as the messiah. There are intermarried Jews, and even athiest Jews who claim not to believe in God at all.

One similar thread is that Jews (not all) but a majority in America especially lean toward pacifism. And the majority are also socially liberal and feel a strong obligation to social justice. Many Jews spend as much if not more doing charity work, collecting for food banks, and doing community service even to the point of working on Christmas so that Christian's can have the holiday with their family.

So now regarding how this plays into politics. Throughout 2008 I heard many many Jews from first time voters to elderly holocaust survivors say they were voting for Obama because "They didn't like George W Bush" (they felt that a republican candidate had the same policies in mind as Bush. Those that liked McCain got turned off because they didn't like Sarah Palin). They felt that the war in Iraq was unnecessary, they felt social health care was beneficial especially to the poor who they feel an obligation to serve, and they felt an empathy for blacks, gays or any minority group that they think suffers from bigotry and prejudice because Jews can identify with being a minority.

This all being said, the majority of Jews regardless of their degree of religiousness or lack thereof, are supportive of and have a love of Israel. American Jews that have never even been to Israel will sing the hatikvah with as much pride and fervor as Americans singing the Stars Spangled Banner. When the Lebanon crisis was going on a few years back, Jews came out of the woodwork from all walks of life to rally for Israel and millions was sent in support.

But keep in mind that many Americans define support as supporting a war against the enemy. Jews see war as a last resort. It is no wonder their military is accurately called the IDF Israeli Defense Force. But be rest assured that they are very prepared and very willing to defind the State of Israel if and when they are under attack.

BUT Jews also have a strong belief in peace. Many religious Jews believe the messiah will not come until the world is at peace, and so being involved in a war defeats that purpose. In a very frequently recirted prayer Jews affirm that thay "are commanded to pursue peace" and that they look nearer to the day when man will "beat their swords into plowshares."

Jews are seriously not looking for evangelicals to fight their battles. They (with perhaps the exception on the ultra conservatives), seek out friendly and peaceful inter faith relationships.

When Jews are threatened they will come out from every walk of life. Yes the majority of Jews in America voted for Obama, but many are turning against Obama and the current administration, and there is much demonstrating as we speak in the Jewish communities. Check out this link for example:

Obama: Rally Against Most Anti-Jewish President Ever - Atlas Shrugs

In summary, although Jews are a people with far more diverse opinions than other groups, Israel is still thought of as their homeland.

The 2012 election will be interesting. If the Republicans come up with a candidate that is highly supportive of the State of Israel AND shows empathy for the poor and minorities and has a conviction to social justice, I think the political tides will turn dramatically.

Time will tell.

[prisonchaplain]

I am not exactly what you meant by your post, however one common mistake most non-Jews make is that they think of Jews as a religious group. So stating that "evangelicals" (which is defined as a religious group), support Israel more than Jews (not defined as a religious group), is not exactly accurate. Indeed you cannot refer to Jews as one large group that thinks and believes by consensus the way other religious groups do.

I was comparing a religious group with an ethnic group. My impression is that the Jewish community votes heavily Democratic, and that many will ultimately accept President Obama's tougher stance on Israel.

Chart: Jewish Vote 1972 -2008 | NJDC

From American Jews, a wide reaction to Obama's Middle East speech - Yahoo! News

Christian evangelicals, on the other hand, are often Christian Zionists. They believe that God has a special plan for Israel "in the last days," and so tend to view Israeli actions from the most positive perspective possible.

On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend by Timothy P. Weber- Beliefnet.com

If my comment seemed to imply that I was speaking specifically of religious, or observant Jews, then it was unintentional. I would have no way to know that. When most polls cite Jewish voting patterns, it is the ethnic ommunity it refers to.

Edited May 23, 2011 by prisonchaplain

[HoosierGuy]

Evenrthing I read says Israel has been the aggressor. Another example -

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu tried to embarrass his host, President Obama, at the White House on Friday, delivering a pedantic attack on him. Netanyahu made many false assertions about Israeli policy toward the Palestinian West Bank being driven solely by security concerns, when it is in fact a vast landgrab of the ‘settler-industrial complex.’ Israel’s colonization of territories occupied from the Palestinians in 1967 is illegal in international law and deeply immoral.

Netanyahu Humiliates Obama, Misrepresents Israeli Policy | Informed Comment

[pam]

Evenrthing I read says Israel has been the aggressor. Another example -

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu tried to embarrass his host, President Obama, at the White House on Friday, delivering a pedantic attack on him. Netanyahu made many false assertions about Israeli policy toward the Palestinian West Bank being driven solely by security concerns, when it is in fact a vast landgrab of the ‘settler-industrial complex.’ Israel’s colonization of territories occupied from the Palestinians in 1967 is illegal in international law and deeply immoral.

Netanyahu Humiliates Obama, Misrepresents Israeli Policy | Informed Comment

Of course the Informed Comment is just one man's blog and perspective. You have to take it for what it's worth. It's not news..it's a blog.

[HoosierGuy]

Of course the Informed Comment is just one man's blog and perspective. You have to take it for what it's worth. It's not news..it's a blog.

It's the opinion of one of the most respected experts on the Mideast.

[pam]

Perhaps the most respected amongst left wing bloggers.

[prisonchaplain]

It's the opinion of one of the most respected experts on the Mideast.

I call your blogger, and raise you one with a bit more recognition....F L A M E : Did We Not All Say, "Never Again?"

[volgadon]

The population of the State of Israel is comprised approxinmately 75 percent Jews (Christian, Muslims and other religions make up the other 25 percent. And of that approximately 42 percent of the Jews define themselves as secular.

Things are actually a little more complicated. At both extremes you have hilonim and haredim. Hilonim are secular, they don't observe halachah. The haredim observe halachah in its minutest details. In the middle, and by far the largest group, are the shomrei masoret, they observe halachah to varying degrees.

[volgadon]

It's the opinion of one of the most respected experts on the Mideast.

It is one-sided, deceptful rubbish. I'm a left wing Israeli BTW.

[HoosierGuy]

I think one reason the U.S. Jews tend to support the liberals in the U.S. is because they see more angry rhetoric from the other side and they know hate speech and angry rhetoric does nothing but get more innocent people killed, both Israelis and Palestinians.

[Vort]

If US Jews "see more angry rhetoric from the other side" (meaning the political right), they are selective in their vision.

[volgadon]

they know hate speech and angry rhetoric does nothing but get more innocent people killed, both Israelis and Palestinians.

Like this?

[prisonchaplain]

Or this? Saudi-Funded UK Sharia Schools Teaching Muslim Kids Jew Hatred, Sharia Mutilation -

Edited May 24, 2011 by prisonchaplain

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I stand by my OP. Even if LDSJewess is correct that most Jews find themselves supportive of Israel, the most outspoken support as expressed in lobbying groups such as AIPAC and CUFI consist largely of evangelical Christians and other ministries such as CBN are very pro-Zionist in their outlook. Some major denominations even have the support of Israel codified in their platform of beliefs. If Jews mostly support Israel, their support is next to useless unless it's expressed in such a way as to influence U.S. policy toward the Jewish state. The lion's share of the lobbying effort is overwhelmingly Christian and that can hardly be contested.

[LDSJewess]

I think people need to realize that Jews no matter where they live will NEVER sell out Israel.

The fact that Jews are not shouting pro Israel slogans in the public streets does not mean that they support Israel less than charismatic evangelical churches.

I was very impressed with Prime Minister Netanyahu's speach to the US Congress this morning.

Keep in mind that the Prime Minister is a politician and he is very diplomatic, but anyone that knows his politics understands that he promotes the defense of Israel, period.

Yes Israel wants peace, and a focal point of Jewish culture, (and yes religion), is the pursuit of peace.

The Prime Minister made it clear that although Israel was dedicated to pursue peace and was willing live peacefully aside a recognized Palestinian State, that this is only possible if Palestinians agree to live with a Jewish state that would include areas in the suburbs of Jerusalem and around Tel Aviv.

He said in his speach: Jerusalem, he said, “will never be divided,” and Israel’s army would remain along the Jordan River.

As for support from America, I find it interesting that this all happens when Obama is in Ireland somewhere. Congress on both sides of the aisle is giving the Prime Minister numerous standing ovations. And of course Obama has since back paddled on his original statements when he saw that his ideas were far from well received on either side of the aisle.

Although it may be questionable whether Obama may love Israel, it is clear that Ameicans are (including Congress).

You will not likely see American Jews on a TV program or being verbal to the entire world about their support of Israel. But you will seem them by the thousands at rally's for Israel withinthe walls of Jewish community centers and synagogues. The cheering, flag waving, applause etc: is generally reserved for their own rallys and meetings. They have no agenda other than supporting Israel so see no need to make a public outcry to the general public.

People believe a lot of what they see on TV. Yes there is Rabbi Eckstein that is on TV declaring his love for Israel and is seeking donations on TV. This is a bit of an exception because Rabbi Eckstein is Messianic and therefore a Christian with a mission of sorts. and many Jews believe that Eckstein's support of Israel is more motivated by having an open door to prosyltize and convert Jews for Jesus. So his work is not entirely well received in the mainstream Jewish community. Indeed Christains are far more impressed with his work.

There are millions of dollars going to Israel from Jews in support of Israel, including donations, wills and estate planning, "buying blue", Israel bonds program, and the list goes on. They don't talk of this in the news.

Jews also have a lot of faith (regardless of their religious stream), that Israel will protect itself regardless of US or UN policies if and when it should deem necessary. You may need to listen carefully and ready between the lines of diplomacy of the Prime Ministers speach, but that is truly the sentiment. Jews also believe that Israel is their homeland and the land of their fore fathers and that it is given to them by God.

I think people miss the point that because American Jews tend to be socially liberal and supported Obama in the election; that they will sell oput Israel. That is far from the truth.

[prisonchaplain]

People believe a lot of what they see on TV. Yes there is Rabbi Eckstein that is on TV declaring his love for Israel and is seeking donations on TV. This is a bit of an exception because Rabbi Eckstein is Messianic and therefore a Christian with a mission of sorts. and many Jews believe that Eckstein's support of Israel is more motivated by having an open door to prosyltize and convert Jews for Jesus. So his work is not entirely well received in the mainstream Jewish community. Indeed Christains are far more impressed with his work.

You may have inadvertently made our point. Rabbi Eckstein is Orthodox. He is not Messianic. He is not a Christian. Many Jews PERCEIVE him that way because he spends so much time with evangelicals, raising money from us to support Israel. He has learned our culture, understands our theology, and is comfortable working with us to support Israeli and Jewish causes. He does not lie to us, pretending to believe Jesus is Messiah.

Many Christians probably do believe Rabbi Eckstein is either a Christian, a Messianic Jew, or that he is "open to the gospel." Likewise, many in the Jewish community are so skeptical of evangelicals, because of our missionary efforts, that they will not join us in common cause. These folk also will simply assume that Rabbi Eckstein is messianic. Again, he's not.

Similar controversy surrounds Michael Medved, a talk show host in our area, who is Jewish, but makes friends with the likes of Rev. Casey Treat, a local mega church pastor. And again, with Rabbi Daniel Lapin--over 90% of who's audience is Christian.

None of these guys are Christians. They are not Messianic. However, they have learned the evangelical culture, and work with us to support common cause. They do so, because we donate big time.

It probably sounds obnoxious and triumphalist for us to say that evangelical Christians seem more supportive of the state of Israel than Jewish Americans. And, on a gut level, it's surely not true. The Holy Land is literally and biologically (as well as spiritually) in the blood of Jewish people. We Christians claim it by theology and "adoption."

Perhaps it's simply enough to say that the evangelical Christian support for Israel is huge right now. From our perspective, American Jewish political support for the Holy Land seems less, due to an overwhelming allegiance to the political party that is least committed Israel's support.

[HoosierGuy]

It would help if one and all who cared about peace stoped calling Israel the Holy Land. Lets get religion out of the talks and focus on real facts and peace and put religious feelings from the heart aside.

prisonchaplain, look at my old posts and you will see I'm no fan of Saudi Arabia and in fact I put much blame on them for 9/11 and think we should have and should now go to war with that country. The Saudi kingdom is a religious dictatorship, that is right wing, not left. That dictatorship is protected by big U.S. business and Texas capitalists. That evil dictatorship backed with tons of money a certain person in the U.S., a person who walked with the "royal" King and held his hand in Texas of all places, amazingly pathetic.

I do think the U.S. south/religious right are very bi-polar when it comes to Isreal. Part of them seem to want to defend Israel right down to the death. The other seem to have a racist hatred or strong disdain for Israel.

Thom Hartmann was just talking about this today. He said many of the people Glen Beck has attacked on his show have been jews. He said when Beck attacked him that Beck spelled Hartmann's name wrong. Beck spelled his name the Jewish way - Hartman with one N and not the correct German way Hartmann with two n's.

Also, the conservatives are just using Israel as a wedge issue to political gains, like they use brain dead women in Florida and Cuban boys stuck in the U.S. who really belong with their dad in Cuba.

I'm curious prisonchaplain - do you support Saudi Arabia?

[prisonchaplain]

It would help if one and all who cared about peace stoped calling Israel the Holy Land. Lets get religion out of the talks and focus on real facts and peace and put religious feelings from the heart aside.

Absurd and impossible. Christians are motivated by religion. Muslims are. Jews are motivated by ethnicity and often religion. To remove religion from the conversation would be equivalent to refusing to mention the elephant in the living room.

prisonchaplain, look at my old posts and you will see I'm no fan of Saudi Arabia and in fact I put much blame on them for 9/11 and think we should have and should now go to war with that country. The Saudi kingdom is a religious dictatorship, that is right wing, not left.

You equate religious fundamentalism with "right-wing." I'm not sure this is accurate. The Saudi form of Islam is "legalistic" and focussed very much on form and practice. I'm not sure all that translates into a political school of thought. Remember that Hitler was a socialist.

That dictatorship is protected by big U.S. business and Texas capitalists. That evil dictatorship backed with tons of money a certain person in the U.S., a person who walked with the "royal" King and held his hand in Texas of all places, amazingly pathetic.

I could be wrong, but the U.S. government seems to view Saudi Arabia is one of the Islamic nations it can most easily work with.

I do think the U.S. south/religious right are very bi-polar when it comes to Isreal. Part of them seem to want to defend Israel right down to the death. The other seem to have a racist hatred or strong disdain for Israel.

You seem to conflate the very large evangelical Christian movement with the very small Anti-Semitic Christian Identity type folks.

Thom Hartmann was just talking about this today. He said many of the people Glen Beck has attacked on his show have been jews. He said when Beck attacked him that Beck spelled Hartmann's name wrong. Beck spelled his name the Jewish way - Hartman with one N and not the correct German way Hartmann with two n's.

Glen Beck tends to criticize liberals. It is likely true that a fair number of liberal thinkers are Jewish. I'm not sure what the bizarre mention of a mispelling has to do with anything.

Also, the conservatives are just using Israel as a wedge issue to political gains, like they use brain dead women in Florida and Cuban boys stuck in the U.S. who really belong with their dad in Cuba.

Wow! You're all over the place with this post. Sorry, but your willingness to just dismiss conservatives as souless power mongers, who don't really believe in the issues they raise is useless commentary. What gives you insight into their souls, and has the Almighty really given you permission to pass those spiritual insights on to us here???

I'm curious prisonchaplain - do you support Saudi Arabia?

I was not aware that the support of Saudi Arabia was a major political issues.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, Hoosier holds the privilege to vote.

I would think that when you exercise that privilege you would be encouraged to study politics outside of the Republican/Democrat convervative/liberal broad brushing.

Terry Shaivo? REALLY?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Terry Shaivo? REALLY?

And Elian Gonzales.

How "conservative" was Jesse Jackson when he spoke up in defense of Terry Shaivo's right to life?

Edited May 25, 2011 by pam

[Guest]

And Elian Gonzales.

How "conservative" was Jesse Jackson when he spoke up in defense of Terry Shaivo's right to life?

Don't forget Harry Reid. Oh wait, he's Mormon. He doesn't count!

Oh, and let's not forget the Republican Florida Senate that threw out Terri's Law in the first place...

[pam]

Thom Hartmann was just talking about this today. He said many of the people Glen Beck has attacked on his show have been jews. He said when Beck attacked him that Beck spelled Hartmann's name wrong. Beck spelled his name the Jewish way - Hartman with one N and not the correct German way Hartmann with two n's.

It's actually Glenn with 2 "n's" See how easy it is to make that mistake?

Edited May 25, 2011 by pam