Parts Of The Bible Discounted As Incorrect

[Bob_oz]

Today I was reading that the RC church announced late last year:

"THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true"

and I am wondering if other denominations have indicated a change of view toward Bible content, I understand that the RC view is where science "discredits" Bible teachings, for example the first 11 chapters of Genesis, that homosexualality is not a sin, etc.

Regards

Bob

[Jason]

Today I was reading that the RC church announced late last year:

"THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true"

and I am wondering if other denominations have indicated a change of view toward Bible content, I understand that the RC view is where science "discredits" Bible teachings, for example the first 11 chapters of Genesis, that homosexualality is not a sin, etc.

Regards

Bob

I somehow doubt your story Bob. Using the term "RC Church" could mean anything. Was it a Bishop? Was it a particular college of Bishops? Or was it an official Vatican document? Who said it, when and where?

Considering it was the Roman Catholic Church (along with the Eastern Orthodox) who created the Bible canon that you use today, I find it extremely unlikely that this is true.

[Outshined]

In doubt or not, he certainly did not make the story up.

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”.

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13...1811332,00.html

http://tammybruce.com/2005/10/catholic_chu...me_parts_of.php

http://www.stnews.org/Commentary-1719.htm

[Jason]

Well let me remind you that the Bishops of the UK are not the Roman Catholic Church. They do not speak for the whole church any more than a Stake Presidency issuing a statement in a local paper speaks for the Whole LDS Church.

[Outshined]

Agreed, but Bob's question was reasonable given the headline and opening lines of the article.

[Guest Monica]

Alot of catholic teachings and doctrines dont match the bible to begin with. For example they pray to mary and the bible calls that idolitry. So it doesnt shock me to hear such a statement.

[Lindy]

Alot of catholic teachings and doctrines dont match the bible to begin with. For example they pray to mary and the bible calls that idolitry. So it doesnt shock me to hear such a statement.

I had a problem with all the statues and whatnots myself when I was a kid.... Part of the reason I could never get into checking out the religion underneath the obvious. I learned more as an adult... but still not something I would want to get into.... if I wasn't LDS, I might have become a Christian Jew.

[Jason]

Alot of catholic teachings and doctrines dont match the bible to begin with. For example they pray to mary and the bible calls that idolitry. So it doesnt shock me to hear such a statement.

First of all, Roman Catholics do not pray to Mary. The ask Mary (among other saints) to pray for them. There's a big difference. They see it no differently than you asking your neighbor to pray for you.

Second, Roman Catholics adhear closer to the New Testament than most churches I know of, including the LDS. If you disagree, we can take this up anytime you'd like.

[Bob_oz]

Thank you “Outshined” for the defense of my character in my absence, the time differences mean I can’t be here when such comments are made, not that I would be sitting here waiting for them.

Jason I didn’t start this thread with a lie but with a quote and as “Outshined” has shown there is more than one to be found, also, it was presented to demonstrate that some elements of Christianity have/are making some pretty specific changes away from the Bible and I was wondering if others here were aware of similar approaches in the world.

I accept that the Pope has not made the statement but I think you must agree it’s not just “a stake president” making a statement but a rather large chunk of the RC church who not acting alone but as an authorized part of the whole.

I would also point out that you are quick to select and quote from individuals who support your views against the Church but attack me when I make a quote and ask a simple question!

Again I return to my original post:

“and I am wondering if other denominations have indicated a change of view toward Bible content, I understand that the RC view is where science "discredits" Bible teachings, for example the first 11 chapters of Genesis, that homosexualality is not a sin, etc”

I find that I hear almost weekly of the denomination or that changing the “rules” and I ask in all honesty are there parts of the Bible no longer accepted?

Bob.

[LionHeart]

That's a great story S.S. Personally, I believe that it's not how you pray, but what's in your heart when you pray. So this little incident wouldn't have bothered me.

I do believe that there are parts in the bible that are slightly inaccurate. For example, when you read Isaiah 42: 19-23 your reaction is "wha?? No savvy, no savvy!!" You then read Joseph Smith's translation of it and it makes sense.

[prisonchaplain]

Back to the key question: I understand the post, but agree with Jason that the Roman Catholic Church institutional will not likely be coming out with any official statements that diminish the import or veracity of Scripture. At the same time, like the LDS, biblical interpretation requires authority in the Roman Catholic Church, so ultimately, what gets taught depends on church tradition, consensus, and, in certain cases, on what the Pope may be so compelled about that he declares a statement to be ex cathedral (sp?), that is inerrant.

Some mainstream churches already treat the Bible as being unevenly inspired, and that said inspiration ranges from inerrant to Shakespear-like.

You'll not see such statements coming out of evangelical or fundamentalist churches anytime soon.

[Jason]

Thank you “Outshined” for the defense of my character in my absence, the time differences mean I can’t be here when such comments are made, not that I would be sitting here waiting for them.

I wasn't questioning your character Bob. I was questioning your story.

Jason I didn’t start this thread with a lie but with a quote and as “Outshined” has shown there is more than one to be found, also, it was presented to demonstrate that some elements of Christianity have/are making some pretty specific changes away from the Bible and I was wondering if others here were aware of similar approaches in the world.

Quotes without references are little more than hearsay as far as Im concerned. Lucky for you, Outshined did your homework for you. All I ask is that in the future, you post a link for us to verify these type of claims.

I accept that the Pope has not made the statement but I think you must agree it’s not just “a stake president” making a statement but a rather large chunk of the RC church who not acting alone but as an authorized part of the whole.

I disagree. There are over 1 Billion Catholics on this planet. They are the largest Christian Church in the world. However, there are very few Catholics in the UK. In fact, compared to the total British population, 8.51% of them are Catholics. That's just over 4.7 million in a country of over 56 million people!

4.7 million may be half of the LDS total membership, but when a church is over a billion strong, 5 million people is nothing.

Here's a nice visual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Catholi...ulationsnew.png

Here's the actual statistics: http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/sc3.html

What Im saying is that compared to much of Europe and the Americas, the UK is hardly a "large chunk". It'd be the difference between the Stake Presidency in Provo, UT compared to the Stake Presidency in Springfield, MO.

I would also point out that you are quick to select and quote from individuals who support your views against the Church but attack me when I make a quote and ask a simple question!

Are you throwing a pity party for yourself Bob? This is just a Red Herring. I teach correct LDS doctrine here Bob. Sometimes that supports your church, sometimes it does not. Get over yourself.

[Guest Monica]

First of all, Roman Catholics do not pray to Mary. The ask Mary (among other saints) to pray for them. There's a big difference. They see it no differently than you asking your neighbor to pray for you.

Second, Roman Catholics adhear closer to the New Testament than most churches I know of, including the LDS. If you disagree, we can take this up anytime you'd like.

According to the bible we arent to speak to anyone who has passed on. The mary thing qualifies as prayer for example the hail mary and the hail holy queen are noted as prayers in the catholic church. These are offered up as well at times in the kneeling position. Even holy angels wont allow us to kneel before them, they say worship God.

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

These are just a few things that they do that differ from the bible. If you like I can share more with you.

[dowi1]

There was this boy who really wanted a car. He had been taught that if he prayed hard enough that he would get whatever he needed or wanted. So he prays really hard for a few minutes and goes out to the driveway. No new car.

So he goes back and prays for 1/2 hour, asking only for a new car. He goes out to the driveway and still no car.

He starts thinking. Finally, he goes down into the study and gets the statue of the Madonna. He sneaks quietly up into his room with the statue, some newspaper and some duct tape. He wraps the statue in the newspaper then covers it with yards of tape. He stashes his package in the farthest corner of his sock drawer and closes it. Then he goes to his bedside and gets down on his kness and says,"God, if you ever want to see your wife again..."

[Lindy]

According to the bible we arent to speak to anyone who has passed on. The mary thing qualifies as prayer for example the hail mary and the hail holy queen are noted as prayers in the catholic church. These are offered up as well at times in the kneeling position. Even holy angels wont allow us to kneel before them, they say worship God.

Ok, I can't sit back and let that one go..... "aren't to speak to anyone who has passed on"? That is the very first time I have ever heard anything like that in my life.

I am sure that the Bible is not talking about "talking" to those who have passed on in the sense that you are referring to. I think it's a total different thing to "talk" to a relative or a friend who has passed on.... knowing that their spirit is there to hear you and to comfort you, and the "conjuring up of spirits" we think of as a fortune teller or medium (whatever they are called)

I honestly think there is a vast difference between "talking" and "praying"

I only pray to my Father in Heaven

I can "talk" to anyone I want to.

[dannuzz]

ok, I can't sit back and let that one go..... "aren't to speak to anyone who has passed on"? That is the very first time I have ever heard anything like that in my life.

I am sure that the Bible is not talking about "talking" to those who have passed on in the sense that you are referring to. I think it's a total different thing to "talk" to a relative or a friend who has passed on.... knowing that their spirit is there to hear you and to comfort you

hi :)

How do you know that their spirit is there to hear you and comfort you??

The only spiritual comforter I know of is the Holy Ghost, who bears wittness of Jesus.

If you indeed are "talking" to dead people and under the assumption that they hear you and comfort you, then you are speaking/communicating with the dead. which is a big no no. period.

in times of hardship etc. we seek the lord. our protection strength guidence , Comfort etc etc come from him.

[dowi1]

ok, I can't sit back and let that one go..... "aren't to speak to anyone who has passed on"? That is the very first time I have ever heard anything like that in my life.

I am sure that the Bible is not talking about "talking" to those who have passed on in the sense that you are referring to. I think it's a total different thing to "talk" to a relative or a friend who has passed on.... knowing that their spirit is there to hear you and to comfort you

hi :)

How do you know that their spirit is there to hear you and comfort you??

The only spiritual comforter I know of is the Holy Ghost, who bears wittness of Jesus.

If you indeed are "talking" to dead people and under the assumption that they hear you and comfort you, then you are speaking/communicating with the dead. which is a big no no. period.

in times of hardship etc. we seek the lord. our protection strength guidence , Comfort etc etc come from him.

Looks like Joseph Smith and not a few others broke the rule to not "communicate with the dead." The brother of Jared, Moses and others even had the audacity to talk to someone who hadn't even been born yet, definately "dead."

[shanstress70]

I can't believe what I'm reading...

You're telling me that to speak to my relatives who have passed on is against the Bible?

I don't normally do this, as I am not one for visiting graves, etc., but I know a great many people who do. My cousin recently was very grief-stricken when my grandmother passed away. She talks with her and gets a very peaceful feeling.

[boyando]

All though I find what has been written very interesting, I don't think it is right for us, non-Roman Cathlic's to comment on what they believe, as if we are experts. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it seems to me that we have strayed from Bob's qeustion.

The eleventh Article of faith - We claim the privilege of worshiping the Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I am not perfected in this point, far from it. I hope that you all will help me try to be better when it comes to trying to tell others what they believe. My testomony of this great work will not grow or fall away, by the actions of another Church.

I am willing to hear the views of other's as long as they are from those, who have part in those views.

Thanks - Allmosthumble

[Outshined]

I disagree. There are over 1 Billion Catholics on this planet. They are the largest Christian Church in the world. However, there are very few Catholics in the UK. In fact, compared to the total British population, 8.51% of them are Catholics. That's just over 4.7 million in a country of over 56 million people!

Makes me wonder if the Catholic Church will address this statement being made publicly by the bishops in question. I'm not sure they'll be willing to just let that go.

[dannuzz]

I can't believe what I'm reading...

Thats ok. Im not asking you to.

I don't normally do this, as I am not one for visiting graves, etc., but I know a great many people who do. My cousin recently was very grief-stricken when my grandmother passed away. She talks with her and gets a very peaceful feeling

I see nothing odd. about letting ones thoughts remember those who have gone etc and finding comfort in those memories. but if you think its two way. you talk to them , they talk to you. and help you in whatever means, then thats a problem.

Isaiah 8:19

When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?

I understand many people do not use mediums and spiritists etc, but the example set for us is still in this scripture. should not a people inquire of their God??. why consult the dead on behalf of the living

hmm quote feature didnt seem to work

[Lindy]

ok, I can't sit back and let that one go..... "aren't to speak to anyone who has passed on"? That is the very first time I have ever heard anything like that in my life.

I am sure that the Bible is not talking about "talking" to those who have passed on in the sense that you are referring to. I think it's a total different thing to "talk" to a relative or a friend who has passed on.... knowing that their spirit is there to hear you and to comfort you

hi :)

How do you know that their spirit is there to hear you and comfort you??

The only spiritual comforter I know of is the Holy Ghost, who bears wittness of Jesus.

If you indeed are "talking" to dead people and under the assumption that they hear you and comfort you, then you are speaking/communicating with the dead. which is a big no no. period.

in times of hardship etc. we seek the lord. our protection strength guidence , Comfort etc etc come from him.

Oh boy, think I opened up a can of worms here....lol

Yes, I agree that the Holy Ghost is the spiritual comforter..... I mean to say that one can be comforted by the presence of a loved one.... just knowing that they are ok and happy, etc. And I do mean talking TO not WITH..... I would be terrified if I heard someone from the other side talking to me. I listen to the voice of the Holy Ghost..... thankfully I haven't heard any other voices

Little story here..... Daughter's best friend lost her husband in Iraq when his vehicle went over a mine, messed him up pretty bad. She was so distraught with grief thinking that he was still in pieces and in pain somewhere that she was losing her grip on her own sanity. She begged me to help her know that Marvin was ok wherever he was.... I told her everything I could about what I knew about life after death.... about the spirit world and being at peace, etc... as much as I could in her drugged state of mind. I also told her she could talk to him anytime she needed to.... but he wouldn't answer back....she would just know that he is ok....and she did...everynight she went out and sat under the stars and just talked to him... it helped her keep her sanity that way. She told me later that even though he never answered, she knew that he was at peace.... and that made her feel better.

Nothing evil or sinister, just simple one sided conversations.

[Jason]

According to the bible we arent to speak to anyone who has passed on. The mary thing qualifies as prayer for example the hail mary and the hail holy queen are noted as prayers in the catholic church. These are offered up as well at times in the kneeling position. Even holy angels wont allow us to kneel before them, they say worship God.

I still think you're incredibly ignorant about the worship of Roman Catholics. Kneeling is not praying. Kneeling is showing respect to someone whether they're living or dead. Kneeling is not prohibited by anyone. You're just making things up now to fit your narrow minded notion of Catholic worship.

"Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

Nothing in this verse prohibits a penitent person from asking the so-called mother of God to pray for them on their behalf. They're not worshipping Molech, their not casting lots (like the apostles did) they're not practicing astrology, witchcraft, ouija boards, or using dead bodies for some odd purpose. They're asking for additional supplication to their god. Not supplicating the Virgin or Saints, but asking them to pray for them, as they are supposedly nearer to God they anyone else.

You've got to stop reading Jack Chick. That's like taking Ed Decker at his word regarding Mormonism.

Duh.

These are just a few things that they do that differ from the bible. If you like I can share more with you.

Sweetie, the Catholics wrote the dang bible. They put it together. You wouldn't have a bible if it weren't for the catholics. Get over yourself.

[prisonchaplain]

You've got to stop reading Jack Chick. That's like taking Ed Decker at his word regarding Mormonism.

Duh.

FYI, Chick's Anti-Catholic tracts are so rabid we don't allow them in our institution.

Sweetie, the Catholics wrote the dang bible. They put it together. You wouldn't have a bible if it weren't for the catholics. Get over yourself.

Moses was Catholic??? Sorry, couldn't help it.

There's a good deal of discussion as to whether the early church (1st century) could be labeled Catholic in the institutional sense. Little doubt that they established the biblical canon, though--one that LDS recognize, as far as it goes.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

You've got to stop reading Jack Chick. That's like taking Ed Decker at his word regarding Mormonism.

Duh.

FYI, Chick's Anti-Catholic tracts are so rabid we don't allow them in our institution.

Sweetie, the Catholics wrote the dang bible. They put it together. You wouldn't have a bible if it weren't for the catholics. Get over yourself.

Moses was Catholic??? Sorry, couldn't help it.

There's a good deal of discussion as to whether the early church (1st century) could be labeled Catholic in the institutional sense. Little doubt that they established the biblical canon, though--one that LDS recognize, as far as it goes.

Of course I meant the New Testament.