Doing your best

[Vort]

I apologize. I guess I'm comfortable enough with my understanding of "do your best always" that I do not understand what you're asking.

Don't apologize. I appreciate your feedback.

I'm asking very literally, what do the words "do your best" mean? Because it is my opinion, or rather my observation, that we never actually "do our best" for more than a very brief period. That is the case for me, and from what I have observed with others, it appears to be the case with everyone. Some work closer to their potential than others, of course; but as far as I can see, no one consistently does their best for weeks or days or probably even hours at a time.

So if gaining Christ's grace rests on us doing our best, we are lost for sure. I do not believe that we are lost for sure. Thus my question: What does it mean to "do one's best"?

[applepansy]

Don't apologize. I appreciate your feedback.

I'm asking very literally, what do the words "do your best" mean? Because it is my opinion, or rather my observation, that we never actually "do our best" for more than a very brief period. That is the case for me, and from what I have observed with others, it appears to be the case with everyone. Some work closer to their potential than others, of course; but as far as I can see, no one consistently does their best for weeks or days or probably even hours at a time.

So if gaining Christ's grace rests on us doing our best, we are lost for sure. I do not believe that we are lost for sure. Thus my question: What does it mean to "do one's best"?

Gaining Christ's grace does NOT depend on our doing our best. Give me a few minutes. I'll find the scripture references.

[Vort]

Gaining Christ's grace does NOT depend on our doing our best. Give me a few minutes. I'll find the scripture references.

Then I need not worry. All the striving and endless coming up short are useless. I can just sit back and relax, not worrying about giving my "best effort". I know Christ will save me.

Hallelujah!

[JudoMinja]

I don't recall, anywhere in the scriptures that it says we have to "do our best". Those words are what we have taken away from scriptures that have such a message in them, but that exact wording is never used. It is said that we are saved by grace "after all we can do". This has been interpreted to mean "do your best", but if you take the original wording from the scriptures- "after all we can do" it fits much more nicely into the interpretation of things I provided.

We simply are not capable of working at our highest potential indefinitely, and it seems this is why you have trouble with the word "best". "All we can do" does not necessarily mean "best". In a perfected state, perhaps this would be possible, but we are not in a perfected state. So we will have shortcomings. We will have things that we could have done that we failed to do. We just have to put forth an honest effort and be moving forward in our progression.

[applepansy]

According the the following scriptures there is NOTHING we can do, not even our best, that will allow us to be saved. We cannot be saved on our merits. We are only saved by faith in Christ. So when other non-LDS Christians say they are saved because they believe in Christ, they are right. And when we say we are saved through faith and works...well we're right too.

So why do we have works? Why are we told to do our best? I believe we are told to do our best so that can became as close to Christ-like in this life as possible.

Again... Brother Bytheway explains it better. Sriously .... Get the CD. If you can't I'd be happy to send you mine.

Then I need not worry. All the striving and endless coming up short are useless. I can just sit back and relax, not worrying about giving my "best effort". I know Christ will save me.

Hallelujah!

Yes, but what are you saved to? Eternal life alone. We get to be resurrected. But where do you want to be after judgement? I want to attain the Celetial Kingdom.

Back to what does it mean to do our best? I believe as I've stated before that it means that we continually recognize our short comings and repent. That is doing our best. Nobody can be perfect in this life. I want to be as perfect as possible so that when I stand before my Savior and account for my sins I can be worthy of more than a Telestial existence.

Moroni 6:4

And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.

Doctrine and Covenants 3:20

And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.

Helaman 14:13

And if ye believe on his name ye will repent of all your sins, that thereby ye may have a remission of them through his merits.

2 Nephi 31:19

And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

Alma 22:14

And since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins, through faith and repentance...

Alma 24:10

And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son.

2 Nephi 2:8

Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

[applepansy]

2 Nephi 25:23

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

[rameumptom]

Vort, but we DO gain Christ's grace just by shouting out, "Lord save me!"

Just read Alma 36, and you'll see where Alma was delivered from the pangs and pains of hell simply by praying for deliverance. Immediately he was rescued and thought he saw God on his throne (a theophany).

I am not saying that Alma was suddenly worthy of exaltation. I am saying he was saved from death and hell. To obtain exaltation meant he had to become holy through good works, and yoking himself to Christ, as I stated before.

I believe, as taught by several General Authorities lately that it isn't the "doing" that saves us. It isn't. However, what we become can help exalt us through Christ.

The Christians only have part of the answer. They think that "cheap grace" exalts them. It doesn't. It only saves from death and hell. They are wrong, because they do not understand that there are levels of heaven, and levels within levels of heaven. D&C 76 explains that murderers and adulterers will be heirs of salvation, salvation that is beyond our imagination. But the exalted are described as "valiant in the testimony of Jesus Christ." They have become holy and god-like. D&C 88 teaches that when we obtain a "portion" of a kingdom, then through Christ's atonement we obtain a fullness of that kingdom.

I do not believe in "unconditional love." I believe in "infinite love" a phrase Elder Holland tends to use. I also do not believe in "do your best." It is based on the wrong concept that "obedience is the first law in heaven." I believe in becoming, even as the scriptures teach. As I noted, D&C 93 notes the process Jesus used, and we use the same process.

This process is also known as the "Doctrine of Christ", which is explained in 2 Nephi 31, and 3 Nephi 11. Basically, it is this: the Godhead is One God, and we must become One with the Godhead. We do this by following the first principles and ordinances of the gospel as a process.

We begin with Faith in Christ, which is an action verb. It grows within us (Alma 32) and moves us to Repent of our sins (the second principle). After Repentance, we receive an ordinance (baptism, sacrament, priesthood, temple) as a symbol of our faith and repentance to that level of holiness. Then the Holy Ghost works with us in making us holy, eventually sealing us to a level of holiness. We then begin the process over again from our new level of holiness. We move from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace (D&C 93) in a cycle of the Doctrine of Christ.

Obedience fits in, not as in "doing our best", but in that we become holy and obedience becomes natural for us. Like with the people of King Benjamin, the Holy Spirit fills us and we "desire no more to do evil, but good continually" (Mos 4:1-4; 5:1-4). We are sealed holy to a particular level, becoming perfect (or "complete") to that level. We can then move on to the next higher level.

This is a pattern we see in many of the ancient theophanies, where the prophet ascends from one heaven to the next, until he arrives at the highest. In some of them, they must stop along the way to change into white clothing - a sign they have become holy. For Isaiah (ch 6), he was made holy when a seraphim (archangel, or perhaps the Messiah) touched his lips with a coal from the holy fire. Note, neither his own effort nor obedience made him holy, but God did.

And we follow this same pattern in the temple endowment. We do not move immediately from the Creation room or World room into the Celestial room. Instead, it is a process, during which we learn, develop faith, repent, and encouraged to make new covenants and perform rites. Upon doing this, the Spirit can then seal those portions of the endowment upon us. But we do not stop there, we move forward from room to room, learning new things, increasing our faith and repentance, and making higher covenants, receiving greater rites, signs and tokens. Eventually, we symbolically are brought forth by the Savior into the Celestial Kingdom and into God's presence. Why? Because we have become like they are: holy. We have received a portion of the Celestial, and so are filled with all the glory of the Celestial (D&C 88).

So, Vort, if you wish to discuss "best you can do", you will not see me defend that concept. The Pharisees did the best they could do, some very strict in keeping the laws and being obedient, yet were condemned as hypocrites by Jesus. They did not understand that it is a case of becoming, not just doing. Remember that many shall come to the Lord in that day saying "Lord, Lord" we have done many miracles and wondrous works in thy names. Yet the Lord will tell them to depart, because he does not know them. Why? Because it isn't the doing, but the becoming and yoking ourselves to Christ that counts.

[applepansy]

Is the difference between salvation and exaltation what needs to be defined here?

[spamlds]

Maybe I

[Vort]

Yes, but what are you saved to? Eternal life alone. We get to be resurrected. But where do you want to be after judgement? I want to attain the Celetial Kingdom.

(Btw, "eternal life" = "exaltation" = "celestial kingdom".)

So you are suggesting that I can get greater glory or reward if I do more? How much more? Does it have to be...my best?

If I wish to be exalted, what is required of me? To "give my all" to the Lord? I don't ever "give my all" to anything, not even to my own wife and children. How can I "give my all"?

Or does "giving one's all" just mean saying the words, "Lord, Lord"?

What if I go to work every day and try to get my work done so my employer gets his money's worth? Is that sufficient? How much do I need to be involved with my wife and kids?

The questions themselves are ludicrous, because being with my wife and kids is the reward of good living, not merely the process. I suspect that herein lies the answer to my seeming dilemma.

But when the bishop asks, "Are you completely honest in all your dealings with your fellow man," how can I answer "Oh, yes, bishop, certainly I am!" with a straight face? "Is there anything in your conduct toward your wife or children that is not in harmony with the gospel?" What would he say if I answered, "Oh, other than about three dozen times per day when I fail to be the man I should be, no, there's not a single thing wrong at home"?

Here is a quick, short list of times we are told in the Church that we must do our best:

• Boy Scout oath (as taught to our young men among LDS congregations): "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..."

• Cecil O. Samuelson of the Seventy, What Does It Mean to Be Perfect? (BYU devotional): "If you always do your best with realistic expectations and understanding of both your strengths and weaknesses, you will be able to be an important part of this great work."

• L. Tom Perry, third-senior apostle, Staying Power: "First, consistently do your best with the talents your Father in Heaven has given you."

• Dieter F. Uchtdorf of the Quorum of Twelve, in General Conference (quoting from an Aaronic Priesthood manual): “You have a responsibility to learn what Heavenly Father wants you to do and then to do your best to follow His will"

• Elder Uchtdorf again, from a Friend article last month: "You don’t have to be perfect to get a temple recommend. You just need to do your best to keep Heavenly Father’s commandments."

• President Hinckley: "If you do your best, it will all work out."

• Anthony Perkins of the Seventy, in General Conference: "As you do your best to be obedient and repentant, you too can receive a place in the celestial kingdom through the Atonement and grace of Jesus Christ."

This short list should suffice to demonstrate that our leaders have consistently urged us to do our best, saying that such is needed for the plan of salvation to take effect in our lives and gain us eternal life.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Vort

[Seminarysnoozer]

Even with all those explanations and quotes, how do you know what your "best" is? Looking at the quote from Samuelson, "... with realistic expectations and understanding of both your strengths and weaknesses" has to be a part of what the definition of "best" is for anyone. I think in general we have very little insight as to what really are our strengths and weaknesses. This is why we say the spirit is willing but the body is weak. Our desire and what we expect of ourselves may be way above what we really are capable of and so the expectation is not realistic. Then we would tell ourselves that we are not doing our "best" when in reality we are. I think, in this, we have to keep in mind we are using a broken machine, our bodies. Our spirit being outmatches our carnal ability every time.

To me, when someone expresses their frustration with this as you are, this suggests that you are more in tune with your spirit and your spiritual abilities, then you recognize the disparity more between body and spirit. It's the person who does not see their spiritual self that is satisfied with their current standing and says things like, 'eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die'. Or doesn't put much effort into improving. The carnal "best" is different from your spiritual "best". Even the apostles fell asleep when Christ needed them to stay awake. I firmly believe, though, that God is well aware of what our physical limitations are and takes those into account when He determines what our "best" really is.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer

[applepansy]

(Btw, "eternal life" = "exaltation" = "celestial kingdom".)

So you are suggesting that I can get greater glory or reward if I do more? How much more? Does it have to be...my best?

If I wish to be exalted, what is required of me? To "give my all" to the Lord? I don't ever "give my all" to anything, not even to my own wife and children. How can I "give my all"?

Or does "giving one's all" just mean saying the words, "Lord, Lord"?

What if I go to work every day and try to get my work done so my employer gets his money's worth? Is that sufficient? How much do I need to be involved with my wife and kids?

The questions themselves are ludicrous, because being with my wife and kids is the reward of good living, not merely the process. I suspect that herein lies the answer to my seeming dilemma.

But when the bishop asks, "Are you completely honest in all your dealings with your fellow man," how can I answer "Oh, yes, bishop, certainly I am!" with a straight face? "Is there anything in your conduct toward your wife or children that is not in harmony with the gospel?" What would he say if I answered, "Oh, other than about three dozen times per day when I fail to be the man I should be, no, there's not a single thing wrong at home"?

Here is a quick, short list of times we are told in the Church that we must do our best:

• Boy Scout oath (as taught to our young men among LDS congregations): "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..."

• Cecil O. Samuelson of the Seventy, What Does It Mean to Be Perfect? (BYU devotional): "If you always do your best with realistic expectations and understanding of both your strengths and weaknesses, you will be able to be an important part of this great work."

• L. Tom Perry, third-senior apostle, Staying Power: "First, consistently do your best with the talents your Father in Heaven has given you."

• Dieter F. Uchtdorf of the Quorum of Twelve, in General Conference (quoting from an Aaronic Priesthood manual): “You have a responsibility to learn what Heavenly Father wants you to do and then to do your best to follow His will"

• Elder Uchtdorf again, from a Friend article last month: "You don’t have to be perfect to get a temple recommend. You just need to do your best to keep Heavenly Father’s commandments."

• President Hinckley: "If you do your best, it will all work out."

• Anthony Perkins of the Seventy, in General Conference: "As you do your best to be obedient and repentant, you too can receive a place in the celestial kingdom through the Atonement and grace of Jesus Christ."

This short list should suffice to demonstrate that our leaders have consistently urged us to do our best, saying that such is needed for the plan of salvation to take effect in our lives.

Again, Vort... none of those you quoted said be perfect. We do our best and Christ will make up the difference.

I had a problem at one time with the honesty question in a temple recommend interview. What is honest? I can be as honest as I know how and because of perceptions someone else might think I'm being dishonest. The Stake President told me in the interview that it doesn't matter what others think. What matters is what I think. Am I being honest?

Another story that comes to mind. An older lady lived just up from the street from us a few years back. (we bought our property from her husband). She is the sweetest, kindest, most giving person I've ever met. Anyone you ask in the whole of the upper Ogden Valley will tell you she's bound for the Celestial Kingdom hands down. But she leaned over to me in RS one Sunday and said "I don't think I'll ever be able to do enough to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. I'm not going to be saved." And she meant it. How sad is it that this wonderful woman who would and has given her all to help others doesn't understand that her faith in Christ is what will gain her salvation and her works will gain her exaltation.

You can continue to beat yourself up. You can choose to let this one stumbling block be what shakes your faith. Or you can believe what Christ has told us.

I don't think anything we say, quote, or reference is going to help you find your answer. Prayer, fasting ... those will. Best Wishes in your search.

Sincerely,

Apple

[spamlds]

Maybe I can share a scriptural insight I learned from my mission and the French translation of the Doctrine and Covenants. Section 4 says:

2 Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.

There were some key words in French that gave this new meaning to me:

Heart = coeur

Might = pouvoir

Mind = esprit

Strength = force

This is the "order" by which the Lord judges our actions and efforts. The first thing is heart. The desires of our hearts are the most important thing. Desires become actions. If we can focus our desires on the things of God, then our actions will bring forth fruit. If our desires are for fame, money, worldly pleasure, etc., that will be the fruits that will grow instead.

Pouvoir is the word I found the most interesting. When we say "might" in English, we tend to think of strength, like "mighty." Might also is the conditional form of the verb "may." It implies permission and opportunity. In French, the word "pouvoir" has two meanings. One is "power" and the other is the verb "to be able." Thus the second criterion by which the Lord judges us, after our heart's desire, is our opportunity and our ability.

A person who has a severe handicap may not be able to serve a mission because of it. His opportunity is limited in that specific way. The Lord factors that inability into the mix and looks at what his abilities are. Do we exploit the opportunities that come our way to do good? Our opportunities will differ one from another. Some bring forth fruit 10-fold, others 20-fold, and others 30-fold. That's "pouvoir."

"Esprit" means spirit or mind in French. It is our intellectual and spiritual ability. Do we devote our minds to the service of the Lord? There is a great deal of variation here. Certainly somebody like Robert Millett or Hugh Nibley were blessed with great intellect. Because of their ability to teach and write books, does that make them more of a celestial person than the rest of us? Not at all. Sometimes we may not be smart enough to figure out all the answers and we make mistakes based on erroneous information. The Lord takes all that into account.

Last of all, "force" is physical strength. Did you DO enough, work hard enough? Our strength varies from day today. Sometimes a guy doesn't get his home teaching done because he had to work a bunch of overtime and he was exhausted. Sometimes sickness, accidents, and other problems keep us from getting things done. Like you said, it's rare for a person to give 100 percent all the time.

Thus, when you look at these four things, the only one of them that you have total control over is your desires--your heart. That's what the Lord looks at the most. Despite all the efforts we will make to try preach the gospel to everyone and save all of Father's children, he will do what we cannot. He will look at the heart and judge it with full understanding of all those things. In D&C 137, the Lord told Joseph:

"Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts."

What is your desire? What do you want more than anything? That will be the guiding star that determines your destiny, because it will shape your works.

Meditate, pray, and search the scriptures--but add to that some time to just be alone and feel the Spirit. You will know, by the closeness you feel to the Lord, that you're on the right path. It's less about what you do than what you want. Strengthen righteous desire and the works take care of themselves. Feel the Lord's love for you and let him take the lead. You can feel his acceptance and caring concern if you make a quiet time and place for it to happen. All of us need our personal Sacred Grove sometimes.

[Just_A_Guy]

Vort, one random thought to chew on:

"Do your best" was neither the first nor the second great commandment as taught by Yeshua-bin-Yusuf.

"Do your best" is simply a practical, Mormon compromise between the "all-you-need-is-love" hedonism taught by the Nicolaitans and their ideological progeny, and the dead-works legalism taught by some Pharisees and their latter-day followers.

But the core questions are, how much do we love Christ (and our fellow man) and how has that charity developed over the course of our lives.

I firmly believe that if I can get Moroni 7/1 Corinthians 13 through my thick skull, everything else will fall into place. You keep on obeying the commandments and doing your church assignments; but you do it--as C.S. Lewis said--"in a new way, a less worried way".

Edited June 9, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[Dove]

Hello, Vort;

Thanks for bringing this topic up. The "just do your best" ideology for me is quite grinding....For a few reasons.....

One thing that comes to my mind is the first steps of the twelve step program adopted by our church;

Step One; Admit that you, of yourself, are powerless to overcome your addictions (you can insert here whatever you want; problems, character weaknesses, faults and failings, etc) and that your life has become unmanageable. Step Two; Come to believe that the power of God can restore you to complete spiritual health. Step Three; Decide to turn your will and your life over to the care of God the Eternal Father and His Son, Jesus Christ....

I also think of Ether 12:27; "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace if sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them."

I believe this scripture outlines that yes; we are given weaknesses to humble us. To me this is profound. I chafe at the rhetoric that none of us are meant to be perfect.........that we will never obtain this in this life. I believe that we as a culture often place too much emphasis on our works getting us to heaven rather than through the grace of Christ.....I think of Mosiah 2:21;" I say unto you that if ye should serve Him (Christ), who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another- I say, if ye should serve Him with all you whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants."

I believe what keeps us from "perfection" isn't that God has deemed that we can't obtain it in this life (think of the city of Enoch here) so much as our lack of faith and reliance on Him in getting there. This doesn't excuse us from making the effort to keep the commandments; it is just never forgetting that even our ability to make the effort to keep the commandments is a gift of grace and not our own power.....

Also, I long ago stopped believing that I, of myself, could determine what my "best" is. I believe that it is up to my desires in seeking the Spirit to show/teach/guide/empower/strengthen me to what God knows my best is. More often than not I have experienced the promptings of the Spirit to be far and above less judgmental, condemning, harsh and condescending than the "arm of flesh," i.e. anyone else here on earth. So much of it hinges on what my true desires are. What is it that I truly want?

Edited June 10, 2011 by Dove

[Jennarator]

I Stand my my earlier post. Your best is an honest effort at perfection.

I'm not saying we will be perfect, but if you are not giving it an honest effort, it's not your best.

i.e. if the kids say they did the best they could at cleaning their room, that would mean they really tried to make it perfect. It won’t be as good as if I tried to make it perfect, but it will be pretty good. Now if they say they did their best and it still looked horrible, we know that is not their best. They were not trying for perfection. Also as they get older, the honsest effort improves, so we expect more. I think that is what we see, and that is what makes us frustrated when they clean. We see that they could have really done better, but they didn’t do their best. We don’t expect perfection, we do expect them to try for perfection. We can see a difference.

I think that's what is expected of us as children of God. He knows what our best is and he knows if we made the honest effort. He also expects improvement as we progress. Sure we regress once in a while, but we pull ourselves back up and make the honest effort again.

[Dove]

I've been reading through the posts again.....and I'm beginning to realize why the whole rhetoric of "just do your best" bothers me so much.....

I feel relying on the atonement and the Spirit to guide us in our daily choices isn't really being focused on. There are so many scriptures that encourage us to do this. There have been many years in my sojourn in the gospel where I did exactly what is being discussed; what I thought my "best" was, with always the stunning result of falling hard on my butt and failing miserably. This has happened over and over again throughout the years. It has been quite a humbling process. Through it I have learned that it doesn't matter what I think I should be doing, but what the Spirit tells me to do.....

Also, it seems there is a lot of our infinite worth and value being tied up in our works here. As I've already quoted from Mosiah, no matter what we do or how hard we work or how much we try, it is never going to be good enough without the atonement and the grace of Jesus Christ.....

This leads me to contemplate what our intent is in doing works...Why are we "doing our best" or "making an honest effort?" Is it to prove how "worthy: we are and then have reason to boast of this or condemn/judge others for not being as worthy? Is it to prove our righteousness?? Is it done out of the "have to," "ought to," and "should?" Out of fear and guilt? I mean why is our effort necessary?

For me, my effort is necessary to show what it is that I truly want....What I truly desire. I certainly cannot prove anything or gain anything by my works alone. There is a plethora of scripture in the Book of Mormon that highlights this. Only in and through the atonement. It is up to each one of us individually to decide how much we want eternal life and how much we trust in God (i.e. faith/works with sincere intent) in getting there.