Curious...

[Jsmoltz29fan]

My name is Joey. I was raised a member of the church by a loving and devoutly faithful family. When I was growing up I knew that I was different than everyone around me and didn't understand why. When I was 22 years old I was clinically diagnosed a sociopath. I am not a violent person nor do I embody the stereotype of 'scary' sociopath a la bundy, gacy, etc..., I am simply not emotionally wired like most of the people reading this. I have no concept of the feelings of guilt, remorse, shame, or love. Two of the basic tenants of the church are 'love one another' and the philosophy that to gain repentance you must feel remorse for your sin. What is god's plan for someone who emotionally cannot feel these things?

Why do I care? It honestly boils down to pure academic curiosity. Thank you very much for any insight into my questions.

[Just_A_Guy]

That's a really interesting question, Joey. Ultimately, "repentance" means more than just feeling remorse--it means changing who you are and what your values are. And scientifically/medically, I wonder to what degree that's even possible in your case. Is there any sort of treatment that might alleviate the condition somewhat?

I think your situation would be somewhat similar (by analogy) to Mormons who discover that they are gay--doctrinally they're supposed to want something (heterosexual marriage); but they just don't feel a sincere desire for it. So you might want to look at some of the literature the Church has put out geared towards same-gender attraction. The basic position seems to be, "do the best you can now and God will make whatever changes are necessary in your soul in the next life".

Of course, given that the supreme idea of Mormon heaven is to become a god--I'd say you could make a decent case for obeying the gospel based on self-interest.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[ChooseTheSun]

My name is Joey. I was raised a member of the church by a loving and devoutly faithful family. When I was growing up I knew that I was different than everyone around me and didn't understand why. When I was 22 years old I was clinically diagnosed a sociopath. I am not a violent person nor do I embody the stereotype of 'scary' sociopath a la bundy, gacy, etc..., I am simply not emotionally wired like most of the people reading this. I have no concept of the feelings of guilt, remorse, shame, or love. Two of the basic tenants of the church are 'love one another' and the philosophy that to gain repentance you must feel remorse for your sin. What is god's plan for someone who emotionally cannot feel these things?

Why do I care? It honestly boils down to pure academic curiosity. Thank you very much for any insight into my questions.

Hey Joey, welcome!

There is no psychiatric diagnosis of "sociopath" -- that is a lay term used to lable someone with antisocial issues, similar to what you describe -- lack of usual compassion, indifference rather than guilt, the sense that you are "wired" differently...

I don't know how long ago 22 years old is for you, but you might consider seeking a psychiatric reevaluation for diagnostic clarifiaction. If you really have antisocial disorder, it may be helpful to have a psychiatrist on board, just as you'd want a physician following you for any other condition. There aren't a lot of treatment options for antisocial behaviors -- meds are helpful for peripheral symtpoms like mood swings, but not for the disorder itself. If you can find an LDS therapist, you can work towards adapting your symptoms in the context of the gospel.

Good luck

[RipplecutBuddha]

If the emotional aspects aren't connecting for you, perhaps you could approach the issue rationally. You still understand the reality of good and bad. Merely understanding that doing bad things hurts people, and that God wants us to do good things might help. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but a possible internal dialouge would be like this; "What I just did was bad. I shouldn't do bad things. I need to apologize and try to correct what I've done."

I don't know if I"m being helpful at all, but this is what popped into my head when I read your OP.

[JudoMinja]

One thing that might help you out is taking up a more intesive study of emotions. Read up on psychology and study the emotions of others. I have never been diagnosed with anything myself, but I know I tend to feel a bit of a disconnection from others and have difficulty connecting emotionally. I still feel guilt and such, so I know I still have things together emotionally, but I simply cannot socially connect to the emotions of others.

Just to give you a better idea of what I mean, I have had several friends and co-workers share different life problems with me either just to have someone to talk to or to look for advice. Sometimes, they would be in tears and sometimes they would be angry, depending on what they were talking about. While most would feel a sympathetic connection to those emotions, I always felt distant and apart- even if it was something I could actually relate to. For instance, one of these times was a coworker going through a divorce, something I had just been through. I felt no emotional connection whatsoever. In a way, this has helped me offer better advice, because I can easily maintain a logical thought pattern and come up with a "solution" for the other person.

I am, however, less skilled at offering comfort. This makes me an especially bad person to have around someone dealing with the death of a loved one. I try to comfort them, but my lack of emotional understanding makes it hard and I sometimes mess it all up. The first experience I ever had with something like this was a friend who's cat had gone missing. After a few days, we found it dead on the side of the road and brought it to her so she could mourn and bury it. I knew it was a sad thing and that she was going to be miserable when she saw us at the door with her dead cat, and I wanted to try to make it easy on her. I made the terrible mistake of trying to crack a joke. Her reaction to my joke made me realize the approach had been all wrong, but I just couldn't understand that ahead of time, without seeing her reaction.

I do a lot of studying people. I watch them socially interact with one another. I watch their facial expressions and body language. I read a lot about emotions and psychology. This has helped me do a better job of interacting with people, though I am still pretty anti-social. And like I said, I still feel emotions myself, so I don't have the whole picture of what it must be like for you.

Now, why would all of this help you as far as your faith is concerned? While you may not be able to understand it through personal experience, you can come to understand emotions intellectually, and this can improve your understanding of those commandments involving emotions. To "love one another" or the sorrow and joy that comes with repentance. When you can intellectually understand how it works, you can start making those connections you would otherwise be unable to.

[NeuroTypical]

Hey Joey - welcome!

Two of the basic tenants of the church are 'love one another' and the philosophy that to gain repentance you must feel remorse for your sin. What is god's plan for someone who emotionally cannot feel these things?

Well, love is more than a feeling - it's a set of actions. As a personal example, my wife's parent's family are dangerous folks that we do not allow in our lives. My wife bears scars from growing up around them. We don't really have warm fuzzies when we think about them. But yes, the commandment is to love them and honor the parents. So we fill those commandments by forgiving them, wishing them well, and not allowing them to do anything more harmful to any of us. We're hoping they'll get their act together, save themselves, and end up in the celestial kingdom. We're comfortable going through life a state away from them. From what I can tell, that's what loving them looks like.

Feeling remorse is tricky for someone in your situation. I would read up on the difference between "Godly sorrow" and "worldly sorrow". D&C 20:37, 2 Corinthians 7:9–10, and Mormon 2:10–14. What does a 'broken heart and contrite spirit' mean in your situation? I'm guessing they can apply to you - no emotional reaction necessary.

Why do I care? It honestly boils down to pure academic curiosity.

Well, in it's most black-and-white terms - you might choose to care in order to gain access to the blessings that come from doing what God wants you to do. Or to avoid the difficulties that might come from walking the path of a jerk. Or for selfless reasons - as a way of helping other people in ways that mean a lot to them.

Anyway, welcome. In a lot of ways, my wife is a lot like you. She identifies with the TV show Dexter. That guy has figured out how to be a 'good guy' of sorts, she has too. Here's hoping you can find a satisfying and meaningful way for you to walk in righteous paths.

LM

[Traveler]

My name is Joey. I was raised a member of the church by a loving and devoutly faithful family. When I was growing up I knew that I was different than everyone around me and didn't understand why. When I was 22 years old I was clinically diagnosed a sociopath. I am not a violent person nor do I embody the stereotype of 'scary' sociopath a la bundy, gacy, etc..., I am simply not emotionally wired like most of the people reading this. I have no concept of the feelings of guilt, remorse, shame, or love. Two of the basic tenants of the church are 'love one another' and the philosophy that to gain repentance you must feel remorse for your sin. What is god's plan for someone who emotionally cannot feel these things?

Why do I care? It honestly boils down to pure academic curiosity. Thank you very much for any insight into my questions.

We all come into life with a "handicap". The reason we have handicaps in life is to that we will play the game better than we would otherwise. That is if we are applying ourselves to playing the game.

I see no reason that you cannot be a part and fulfill a destiny because of you handicap. In fact if you are willing to take the challenge - I believe you could accomplish more than those void of your handicap - but not if you quit and take yourself out of the game.

The Traveler

[applepansy]

Hey Joey, welcome!

There is no psychiatric diagnosis of "sociopath" -- that is a lay term used to lable someone with antisocial issues, similar to what you describe -- lack of usual compassion, indifference rather than guilt, the sense that you are "wired" differently...

Yes there is:

2011 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 301.7

Antisocial personality disorder

ICD-9-CM 301.7 is a billable medical code that can be used to specify a diagnosis on a reimbursement claim.

Diagnosis Definition(s)

personality disorder whose essential feature is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others through aggressive, antisocial behavior, without remorse or loyalty to anyone.

Personality disorder characterized by conflict with others, low frustration tolerance, inadequate conscience development, and rejection of authority and discipline.

301.7 Excludes

disturbance of conduct without specifiable personality disorder (312.0-312.9)

explosive personality (301.3)

Applies To

Amoral personality

Asocial personality

Dyssocial personality

Personality disorder with predominantly sociopathic or asocial manifestation

[ChooseTheSun]

Yes there is:

2011 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 301.7

Antisocial personality disorder

ICD-9-CM 301.7 is a billable medical code that can be used to specify a diagnosis on a reimbursement claim.

Diagnosis Definition(s)

personality disorder whose essential feature is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others through aggressive, antisocial behavior, without remorse or loyalty to anyone.

Personality disorder characterized by conflict with others, low frustration tolerance, inadequate conscience development, and rejection of authority and discipline.

301.7 Excludes

disturbance of conduct without specifiable personality disorder (312.0-312.9)

explosive personality (301.3)

Applies To

Amoral personality

Asocial personality

Dyssocial personality

Personality disorder with predominantly sociopathic or asocial manifestation

Sociopath itself is not a psychaitric diagnosis. Antisocial Personality Disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis. Sociopath and Antisocial are not clinically interchangable -- one is a descriptor of behavior, and one is a formal psychaitric diagnosis. A provider may use the term sociopath to provide general information but not as a substitute for a DSM diagnosis. If he were told at some point that his diagnoisis was "sociopath" only, then that was not a clear, official diagnosis and my suggestion stands that should seek psychiatric reevaluation for a clarified diagnosis (antisocial or whatever).

[spamlds]

In questions like this, we should turn to the scriptures for our answers. The question here isn't about what a person feels. It's whether a person can discern between right and wrong. That's what we call accountability. The Book of Mormon deals with the issue of accountability in Moroni 8:10 regarding children, but it's applicable beyond that example. Here's the verse:

10Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

OK, there are two parts here. First is the ability to discern right from wrong. It doesn't have anything to do with feelings. If you are able to assemble something like a piece of furniture or read directions and bake a cake from a cookbook, you have the intellectual capacity to understand what is right and wrong. If you're capable of hearing and understanding oral instructions, you are on the threshold of accountability.

I think God gives us a "grace period" by nailing baptism to the age of 8. Most children are cognizant of right and wrong, and they can understand obedience and consequences, reward and punishment, before they are 8. The Lord just doesn't count sinful actions against us until that time. He knows what we know and he understands when we become accountable.

So the question is, can you as a sociopath understand written or oral teaching that tells you certain behavior brings blessings and other behavior can bring harm? It has nothing to do with what you feel. If you can obey, you're accountable.

The next part is, are you capable of repenting if you don't feel guilt. I would ask, what do you feel? What emotions are you capable of experiencing. Do you laugh at humor? Do you feel anger if someone mistreats you? Some brain injuries disrupt the emotional link to our perceptions. These people don't laugh, cry, feel anger, etc. I would suggest that, if you are capable of feeling anger, you're capable of feeling guilt.

The question is, what does guilt feel like to you? You may have to work to identify it. Sociopaths are generally lacking in empathy. For example, most of us would react with horror and revulsion to see someone abusing an animal. We feel pity for the helpless beast. We are capable of putting ourselves in the place of another. Sociopaths have difficulty doing this. Can this limitation be mitigated? I would expect that a person could to some degree. It would take effort and practice.

The last part is, what constitutes repentance if you can't feel "godly sorrow." Turning to the scriptures again, Lord told Joseph Smith in D&C 58:43--

"By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

Does it say that mere sorrow for sin is required? No. Lots of people feel guilt for their sins and don't repent of them. The way you repent is to recognize that you violated God's laws (accountability) and then make it right by confessing and forsaking them (repentance).

If you have the intellectual wherewithal to ask the questions that prompted this discussion, you have the ability to repent and obtain the blessings of obedience and eternal life.