Physical Appearance

[Backroads]

Of course there is no sure argument for this, that is why we are discussing this, it is not clear. And I appreciate your patience with me in discussing it, thank you.

I think it is one of those things that becomes common knowledge only because everyone assumes that "not one hair lost" is referring to their current condition and not to what happened with the Fall. By discussing this we can better understand the implications of the Fall and therefore the atonement and resurrection. ... I have also worked in the medical field and so the topic is interesting to me. Thanks again. Just keep in mind too, most bodies of people who have lived in this world will have been completely destroyed at the time of resurrection, they are dust, basic elements, nothing more. And that this life is a temporary condition in which stewardships (not ownership) is given, which includes our bodies.

Not a problem whatsoever! I'm having quite a lot of fun discussing this and I'm glad you're putting up with me!

I think in the end, I'll happily accept whatever the situation is; I'm just going what strikes me as the most logical.

[FanOf31]

Pretty much everything in the gospel suggests that we are on the same track, maybe different points on the track but we all end up eating the same fruit. ... iron rod, narrow path, straightway. We currently live in a world where diversity is valued and desired and I believe that can be a good thing for this world. It allows for many different talents and interests to be shared. Where we are heading with this though, I get the impression, is like an arrowhead, heading towards the sharp point. We start out diverse but head towards one point, not the other way around. ... if the arrowhead represents how similar we are (not knowledge, experience etc.)

Look at it this way, if we are fortunate enough to make it into the celestial kingdom, what special feature would you have or anyone there have that our Father wouldn't have?

All differences and "uniqueness" come from imperfections or deficiencies. My goal is not imperfections and so uniqueness is not my goal. If 2 people in the ages of time to come have worked on perfecting themselves, eventually, it will be harder and harder to tell those two people apart just like it is hard to distinguish the Son from the Father. I don't think remaining distinguished and unique should be our goal or desire. Of course, nobody is perfect here, so we still hold onto those 'uniqueness' drives but we try to push them aside. I think we are so far from it that it is hard to imagine but at the same time we don't want to look backwards.

being different doesn't mean someone has an imperfection. Different is just different. lol You are thinking about this way too hard. We are not all going to look the same. Are you really LDS?

[FunkyTown]

On a more serious note:

I believe the idea that we will all look the same to be an untenable position.

If you look around this world, it is glorious because of its diversity. Everywhere, from the deserts to the seas to the arctic to the skies themselves, the world is made glorious by its diversity and not in spite of it.

If we leave this world behind and look to the outer worlds, we see the multi-coloured hues of Saturn and the craggy valleys, mountains and volcanoes of Mars. Even the sun itself has sunspots and eruptions, layers of different colors.

There is literally nothing in this universe that is colourlessly uniform. Why should the world to come be the same? And would you even want that?

[FanOf31]

On a more serious note:

I believe the idea that we will all look the same to be an untenable position.

If you look around this world, it is glorious because of its diversity. Everywhere, from the deserts to the seas to the arctic to the skies themselves, the world is made glorious by its diversity and not in spite of it.

If we leave this world behind and look to the outer worlds, we see the multi-coloured hues of Saturn and the craggy valleys, mountains and volcanoes of Mars. Even the sun itself has sunspots and eruptions, layers of different colors.

There is literally nothing in this universe that is colourlessly uniform. Why should the world to come be the same? And would you even want that?

I agree. I imagine if everything were bland and the same, it would seem more like going to hell. Take a look at prison for example all the same depressing look. Creativity and diversity is beautiful and that's a fact.

[skalenfehl]

I have a question and I was wondering if others could help.

This world seems to place so much importance of the physical appearance and beauty. Sometimes it just doesn't seem fair for those who are blessed with being physically beautiful. I know life isn't fair but its hard not to think about sometimes.

I'm not sure I can contribute much more than has already been shared. You sound like a young guy and I remember being a young, shy, introverted kid with low self esteem. I thought much like you do now. Because of my (dysfunctional) upbringing, I was an easy target at school and was considered a nerd back then.

I think what makes a person most attractive is their confidence. Somehow I learned this when I went on my mission. I figured that it was a fresh start in a new country (I went to Germany). I did my own social experiment, one that only I was cognizant of. I redefined who I chose to become. Rather than being that dorky nerd everyone laughed at and programmed me to be, I became the Lord's servant. I improved my haircuts, clothes, exercised more (a mission is quite a physical workout, btw). Anyway, I carried myself with the confidence that I hoped would stick. My German improved immensely as I studied hard. Halfway through my mission, I realized I had become the person that I had hoped.

I was not supermodel worthy, but I had become fluent in the language, I walked tall, wore a smile, looked people in the eye. Because I had passionately studied the gospel I could testify with boldness and commanded their attention. Fast forward to today. There are times that I look in the mirror and still see that dorky nerd that everyone picked on and laughed at when I was a kid. But kids are cruel. They learn habits from the media and from their own baggage and dysfunctions at home.

I will say this, I am the best man that I can be today. I am not Brad Pitt, but I am me. I never stopped exercising or walking tall. I never stopped showing the confidence that I had developed. I went on to build businesses, one a construction business that flourished until the recent economic decline. But since then I've started another business. I am a trainer and fitness coach, still in the best shape of my life at almost 42 years old. I consider myself strong and confident.

When you grow up you realize that all those shallow people end up being the most self conscious. "We see the world as we are, not as it is." This is why people are the way they are. So start looking in the mirror and visualizing your best YOU. Decide who YOU want to become and start filling in that role. There are some great books out there like "The Slight Edge" and "Personality Plus" that I recommend reading. To be your best you, you need to start improving yourself. Gain that confidence that you were meant to have. Break away from the mold that YOU HAVE ALLOWED others shape. You are a child of God. In the scriptures, Christ said, "ye are gods". Now go act like one. Be humble, but be confident. Emulate Christ.

[Seminarysnoozer]

On a more serious note:

I believe the idea that we will all look the same to be an untenable position.

If you look around this world, it is glorious because of its diversity. Everywhere, from the deserts to the seas to the arctic to the skies themselves, the world is made glorious by its diversity and not in spite of it.

If we leave this world behind and look to the outer worlds, we see the multi-coloured hues of Saturn and the craggy valleys, mountains and volcanoes of Mars. Even the sun itself has sunspots and eruptions, layers of different colors.

There is literally nothing in this universe that is colourlessly uniform. Why should the world to come be the same? And would you even want that?

Explain why you think it would be untenable? Having variable genes in a world such as ours now, I can see where variability might be helpful.

I don't think the world is glorious because of its' diversity if you are just talking about people. It is glorious because of the variety of things possibly but not diversity. I think there is a difference between having a variety of species versus having random variables within a species.

"Would you want that?" really is the question, since our test is one of wanting worldly things or heavenly things ... that is the bottom line question, do we love the things of this world or spiritual things so much so that we couldn't part with them? Forsake the world, overcome the world. The world sees the outside, God sees the inside. What do you see? What could you not do without?

[Backroads]

Explain why you think it would be untenable? Having variable genes in a world such as ours now, I can see where variability might be helpful.

I don't think the world is glorious because of its' diversity if you are just talking about people. It is glorious because of the variety of things possibly but not diversity. I think there is a difference between having a variety of species versus having random variables within a species.

"Would you want that?" really is the question, since our test is one of wanting worldly things or heavenly things ... that is the bottom line question, do we love the things of this world or spiritual things so much so that we couldn't part with them? Forsake the world, overcome the world. The world sees the outside, God sees the inside. What do you see? What could you not do without?

But why does the desire to be the same in spirit and desire automatically rule out other differences?

[FunkyTown]

All right. I've shown the glories that can be even with differences. I'm fairly certain that the Northern Lights, in all their glory, do not have the blue spectrum jealous of the red spectrum.

I'll take a different tack in an attempt to understand where you're coming from.

Why stop at everyone looking the same? Why wouldn't everyone think the same thoughts? Why not obliterate individuality entirely and have only a single being encompass all things?

Explain why you think it would be untenable? Having variable genes in a world such as ours now, I can see where variability might be helpful.

I don't think the world is glorious because of its' diversity if you are just talking about people. It is glorious because of the variety of things possibly but not diversity. I think there is a difference between having a variety of species versus having random variables within a species.

"Would you want that?" really is the question, since our test is one of wanting worldly things or heavenly things ... that is the bottom line question, do we love the things of this world or spiritual things so much so that we couldn't part with them? Forsake the world, overcome the world. The world sees the outside, God sees the inside. What do you see? What could you not do without?

[Seminarysnoozer]

All right. I've shown the glories that can be even with differences. I'm fairly certain that the Northern Lights, in all their glory, do not have the blue spectrum jealous of the red spectrum.

I'll take a different tack in an attempt to understand where you're coming from.

Why stop at everyone looking the same? Why wouldn't everyone think the same thoughts? Why not obliterate individuality entirely and have only a single being encompass all things?

We are not there, of course. I don't know what that is like but we do know that we are in a fallen state. How far fallen? I don't know, but Moses went as far as realizing that man was "nothing" in comparison, that is how far we have fallen. I don't understand this desire to hold onto this fallen state, yes it is beautiful in our eyes, so is money and power and all things in this world could be viewed as beautiful. There are people that put their lives on the line because of their love for this planet, i.e. - running off whale fisherman or burning down the fur coat factory etc.

Our tougher choices are not between good and evil but the ones that push us from good to celestial. Because I propose that something might be good (and, again, I am not claiming I know, just pondering this idea) that does not mean the opposite (diversity) is evil, just that it may not be Celestial. In fact a Kingdom of Glory is described as diverse, as one star differs from another. Yes, that is glorious, that is not my argument at all.

[FanOf31]

What I don't understand is what is the purpose for knowing this information? You can't change the way things are or will be, so what's the point? Enjoy life and it's beauty for what it is. Asking God, "why did you do things this way" is almost pointless. I guess you might get a better understanding, but the question is quite complex.

[FanOf31]

We are not there, of course. I don't know what that is like but we do know that we are in a fallen state. How far fallen? I don't know, but Moses went as far as realizing that man was "nothing" in comparison, that is how far we have fallen. I don't understand this desire to hold onto this fallen state, yes it is beautiful in our eyes, so is money and power and all things in this world could be viewed as beautiful. There are people that put their lives on the line because of their love for this planet, i.e. - running off whale fisherman or burning down the fur coat factory etc.

Our tougher choices are not between good and evil but the ones that push us from good to celestial. Because I propose that something might be good (and, again, I am not claiming I know, just pondering this idea) that does not mean the opposite (diversity) is evil, just that it may not be Celestial. In fact a Kingdom of Glory is described as diverse, as one star differs from another. Yes, that is glorious, that is not my argument at all.

2nd Article of Faith my friend.

[Seminarysnoozer]

What I don't understand is what is the purpose for knowing this information? You can't change the way things are or will be, so what's the point? Enjoy life and it's beauty for what it is. Asking God, "why did you do things this way" is almost pointless. I guess you might get a better understanding, but the question is quite complex.

Because we are judged by the desires of our heart. The whole focus on individuality and uniqueness by its very name is a self-centered thing.

[reflexzero]

The perception of what is beautiful or attractive is highly centered on the culture we live in. I highly doubt standards of beauty in the next life will be based on Elle magazine.

Personally I just want to not have to worry about wearing glasses anymore. And maybe not suffering the ill effects of consuming baked beans.

[ztodd]

That makes sense but its also hard to understand right now. I just struggle in understanding why some were blessed with beauty...they get the best of both worlds. It just seems so unfair. For example, am I always to be short?

No, I don't think so. Well, maybe in this life, yes.

Why can't I be taller?

Because life ain't fair. Not always. At least not this life.

Why are some blessed with the ideal both in this life and the next?

They're not. I suppose that's where you're mistaken- in thinking that beautiful people don't have any problems. They have a ton of problems, believe me.

You're bring misery upon yourself, by making the possesion of certain physical traits such a big deal, when it really isn't.

Someone else said it was all about confidence- he's right. You have the power to make other people be attracted to you. Anyone... Anyone... can be attractive- if they have the confidence to show it.

[FanOf31]

I think we have the ability to change quite a lot actually :). We can change our character/personality... we can also diet/exercise, and change quite a bit of how we physically look. not that you want to get obsessed with such things, but if you are feeling down about yourself, a little dieting and exercise can make you feel (and look) a whole lot better... and I don't think these things are all just superficial - they show self-control / self-respect... one of the reasons we come to Earth is to gain a body and learn how to use it - it is important that we learn how to take good care of ourselves... I don't care how tall/short you are, I think all people who are physically fit / healthy look incredible! and this is not something that you have to just sit back and envy in others, get out there and excessive guys!!!

I once told a class of 9-10 years olds - do you know what you do when you feel jealous of someone else? I told them if they were jealous of something that was "lovely, praiseworthy, or of good report" that they should go out and "seek after these things too" - just go and do thou likewise, and earn your reward!

everyone has seen these before/after extreme makeover type things right? It's ok to do your hair, put on a little makeup everyone!

You're preaching to the choir here I am a body builder :) I was actually referring to the after life, the physical appearance of our resurrected body. But you are absolutely right! We can change just about everything here on earth, be it our personality, outlook on life, phsyical appearance, health, etc. I do also like that statement made earlier how if everyone were to truly care for their bodies physically, just about everyone would look quite attractive (physically).

[FanOf31]

Because we are judged by the desires of our heart. The whole focus on individuality and uniqueness by its very name is a self-centered thing.

I agree to disagree :) It sounds like you have some bitterness built up inside yourself and I'm sorry you feel this way. I find it insulting you would see God's way of creation and plan for us is a self-centered thing as the most important wisdom we're taught is to love thy neighbor/brother. You do realize life on earth could be quite a bit worse and not as physically beautiful as it is, right? Life is BEAUTIFUL, and physical looks are beautiful or ugly to you because of the society you've grown up in and live in. Do you think indigenous people think we are beautiful? Probably not. The after life has quite a bit higher and deeper meaning than physical "beauty". Uniqueness and differences are gifts, not curses. If you don't like how you look, quit blogging about it and do something about it. Easier said than done, but all the energy you've put into this thread could have been used to go to the gym, or discuss health tips on a health bulletin board instead of scrutenizing the reason God made us look physically different.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I agree to disagree :) It sounds like you have some bitterness built up inside yourself and I'm sorry you feel this way. I find it insulting you would see God's way of creation and plan for us is a self-centered thing as the most important wisdom we're taught is to love thy neighbor/brother. You do realize life on earth could be quite a bit worse and not as physically beautiful as it is, right? Life is BEAUTIFUL, and physical looks are beautiful or ugly to you because of the society you've grown up in and live in. Do you think indigenous people think we are beautiful? Probably not. The after life has quite a bit higher and deeper meaning than physical "beauty". Uniqueness and differences are gifts, not curses. If you don't like how you look, quit blogging about it and do something about it. Easier said than done, but all the energy you've put into this thread could have been used to go to the gym, or discuss health tips on a health bulletin board instead of scrutenizing the reason God made us look physically different.

What we agree to disagree on is your view that our world right now was "created" by God this way, the Fall is what created the world this way not God (directly). God created the world in its paradisical state, not this fallen state.

Uniqueness is a gift in this state, I agree with that, but only because we are so short of the fullness. This is where your "bitter" interpretation of what I was saying comes in, I never said it was a curse, just corrupt. There is a difference. We are supposed to experience challenges and trials in this fallen state. The differences we have is one of those challenges.

I think it is important to understand that it is possible to appreciate the way one looks now and yet realize there would be no reason to have differences in the next life just in the same way a person might be thankful they have a lot of money in this world but that doesn't mean they would be "rich" compared to someone else in the next life, in that way ... there likely will not be money.

And again, God did not make us "look physically different" (with the exception of male and female differences), God made Adam and Eve. The Fall made people look different before that there was only one model set, "Adam and Eve".... with all the time you spent counteracting my statements on this thread you could have read Genesis and the Pearl of Great Price to understand that fact.

By the way, I like the way I look and I thank God for all the blessings I have, every day but I don't let that gratefulness take me to the point of desiring the differences to continue after this life, I would hope that everyone around me have all and not have selective blessings. (And I have a degree in health, understanding how to make the body healthy is not the issue)

Just because others have put more energy into pondering something than you might doesn't mean it is less valuable. There are topics on this forum that I have very little interest in such as the Greek interpretation of the Bible etc. but more power to those that do, I am glad someone has interest in those things, I have learned a lot on this forum.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer

[FanOf31]

What we agree to disagree on is your view that our world right now was "created" by God this way, the Fall is what created the world this way not God (directly). God created the world in its paradisical state, not this fallen state.

Uniqueness is a gift in this state, I agree with that, but only because we are so short of the fullness. This is where your "bitter" interpretation of what I was saying comes in, I never said it was a curse, just corrupt. There is a difference. We are supposed to experience challenges and trials in this fallen state. The differences we have is one of those challenges.

I think it is important to understand that it is possible to appreciate the way one looks now and yet realize there would be no reason to have differences in the next life just in the same way a person might be thankful they have a lot of money in this world but that doesn't mean they would be "rich" compared to someone else in the next life, in that way ... there likely will not be money.

And again, God did not make us "look physically different" (with the exception of male and female differences), God made Adam and Eve. The Fall made people look different before that there was only one model set, "Adam and Eve".... with all the time you spent counteracting my statements on this thread you could have read Genesis and the Pearl of Great Price to understand that fact.

By the way, I like the way I look and I thank God for all the blessings I have, every day but I don't let that gratefulness take me to the point of desiring the differences to continue after this life, I would hope that everyone around me have all and not have selective blessings. (And I have a degree in health, understanding how to make the body healthy is not the issue)

Just because others have put more energy into pondering something than you might doesn't mean it is less valuable. There are topics on this forum that I have very little interest in such as the Greek interpretation of the Bible etc. but more power to those that do, I am glad someone has interest in those things, I have learned a lot on this forum.

I see. I think I'm coming to understand more now. You do sound like you know a good deal about the scriptures :)

[HEthePrimate]

My coworker seems overly concerned with other people's weight. I can understand that a person might say to a friend that for health reasons, they're concerned about their weight. But my coworker makes comments about people being "fat" even if he's never met them, and I have a hard time believing he's really that worried about their health. He makes fun of a local TV station's meteorologist for "waddling," and this afternoon he pointed out a lady walking down the street and said she needed to lose weight. Well, I'm sorry if people offend his sensibilities, but it's really none of his business. Have to wonder if he's trying to compensate for something...

[FanOf31]

My coworker seems overly concerned with other people's weight. I can understand that a person might say to a friend that for health reasons, they're concerned about their weight. But my coworker makes comments about people being "fat" even if he's never met them, and I have a hard time believing he's really that worried about their health. He makes fun of a local TV station's meteorologist for "waddling," and this afternoon he pointed out a lady walking down the street and said she needed to lose weight. Well, I'm sorry if people offend his sensibilities, but it's really none of his business. Have to wonder if he's trying to compensate for something...

Unless you have some illness that makes it impossible to lose the weight, I think obese people are lazy and just as bad in society as a drug addict except that they don't deal with the shady people. They ruin lives by not taking care of themself and leaving families to fend for themselves when they have a heart attack at age 30. There IS something most people can do about it and it doesn't require hours upon hours a day of physical exercise.

[FanOf31]

I still love obese people as many of my family is, but I don't sympathize for them being fat. I never mock them, but I do sometimes just shake my head that people are addicted to food as much if not more as a drug and don't care about the dangers of obesity.

[HEthePrimate]

Unless you have some illness that makes it impossible to lose the weight, I think obese people are lazy and just as bad in society as a drug addict except that they don't deal with the shady people. They ruin lives by not taking care of themself and leaving families to fend for themselves when they have a heart attack at age 30. There IS something most people can do about it and it doesn't require hours upon hours a day of physical exercise.

I'm glad to know it's so easy. You should write a book letting people know how easy it is--you could make a lot of money!

[lizzy16]

, I think obese people are lazy and just as bad in society as a drug addict except that they don't deal with the shady people. They ruin lives by not taking care of themself and leaving families to fend for themselves when they have a heart attack at age 30.

I'm gonna chime in here. What about those people who actually love the way they look? I'm fat and I adore myself haha. I'm not lazy, i'm not addicted to food but I'm also not going on any sort of special program to loose the weight because I love myself just the way I am.

What I find disturbing is how unconfident people are. It annoys the heck out of me. People just need to be happy with themselves. And, if there no happy then freaking change it! Don't go around complaining.

But, also don't go around complaining about others. Because maybe they love the way they look. Did anyone ever consider that?

[Vort]

I think obese people are lazy and just as bad in society as a drug addict

Wow. And some people think I'm offensive.

Thanks, FanOf31!

[Backroads]

I think there is a big difference between severely obese (which, yes, I do think is due to laziness more often than not) and being fat or even BMI obese.