Sick of my Bishop

[bytor2112]

I am sick of my Bishop. There is a long story associated with these feelings, but no point in detailing. Our YM's President has a son that has absolutely wreaked havoc on the Youth program and the Standards of the Church are no where to be found. He and a couple of other miscreants have perverted the Gospel during seminary and have made the other Youth that are trying to live the Standards and feel the Spirit feel unwelcome and has used a very gang like type of intimidation toward them.

Who knows? The Bishop.....but he has to love them. The Seminary teacher that says, quote, " we can't feel the Spirit because this group of young men disrupt and pervert the Gospel. The Stake YM's President has approached our Bishop, the other Ward's YW 's President approached our Bishop and tearfully described them as "intimidating" These same YM bless and pass the sacrament and attend ALL youth functions and Temple Trips. There are accusations of drug use and gross violations of the law of chastity and our Bishop does absolutely nothing.

It is a parenting issue to some degree, but the Bishop has a duty to insure that all of the Youth feel welcomed and loved and that the Standards of the church are upheld and that the church is treated with reverence.

The Bishop is/was a very close friend. I serve as the EQ President and have a great testimony as do my wife and kids....but I a have found it very difficult to attend church....though I do anyways. Very sad.......our Bishop has basically abdicated his responsibility. It happened about a year ago when he lost his job....it has progressively gotten worse.

[classylady]

Why would you be sick of your Bishop, when he isn't the one actually causing the problems? Isn't it the boys who are being disruptive? I think I'd be upset with the boys, not the Bishop. Of course I don't know the whole story, but I wouldn't blame the Bishop for the boys misconduct. All Bishops have different personalties, and do the best they can. They aren't perfect. Some Bishops are more outgoing, and more assertive than other Bishops. I wouldn't categorize a Bishop as being a bad Bishop, just because I don't agree with the way he handles things. In my life there have been Bishops that I have gotten along with better than others, but that doesn't mean that the ones I didn't care for as much weren't good Bishops--it was just personality differences.

The boys who are being disruptive or misbehaving shouldn't be ostracized from church. They need the church in their lives just as much as the kids who are trying to do their best. At least the boys are still attending, so there is hope for them, and hopefully the Spirit will eventually get through to them to repent and be more Christlike in their behavior.

I wish I had an answer for you. It's a tough situation.

Edited June 13, 2011 by classylady

[bytor2112]

There is more to the story and he isn't a bad Bishop.....but he is a checked out Bishop. And ALL youth ...all members should feel welcome at church...including the wayward youth. But the Bishop has allowed a really horrible problem to grow and become out of control...to that point that many parents have pulled their kids out of the Wednesday night activities.

These boys aren't just disruptive....if that was all it was..... then no big deal. The good ones are ostracized....the bad ones, well, they should be asked and their parents informed that they must behave as befits one who holds the Priesthood. Correction is oh so necessary...(last general conference was a great talk).

[LDSJewess]

I am sick of my Bishop. There is a long story associated with these feelings, but no point in detailing. Our YM's President has a son that has absolutely wreaked havoc on the Youth program and the Standards of the Church are no where to be found. He and a couple of other miscreants have perverted the Gospel during seminary and have made the other Youth that are trying to live the Standards and feel the Spirit feel unwelcome and has used a very gang like type of intimidation toward them.

Who knows? The Bishop.....but he has to love them. The Seminary teacher that says, quote, " we can't feel the Spirit because this group of young men disrupt and pervert the Gospel. The Stake YM's President has approached our Bishop, the other Ward's YW 's President approached our Bishop and tearfully described them as "intimidating" These same YM bless and pass the sacrament and attend ALL youth functions and Temple Trips. There are accusations of drug use and gross violations of the law of chastity and our Bishop does absolutely nothing.

It is a parenting issue to some degree, but the Bishop has a duty to insure that all of the Youth feel welcomed and loved and that the Standards of the church are upheld and that the church is treated with reverence.

The Bishop is/was a very close friend. I serve as the EQ President and have a great testimony as do my wife and kids....but I a have found it very difficult to attend church....though I do anyways. Very sad.......our Bishop has basically abdicated his responsibility. It happened about a year ago when he lost his job....it has progressively gotten worse.

Bytor,

I believe it is definitely a parenting issue (perhaps to a full degree). Not knowing the entire story of course, that makes it a little hard to comment and give accurate advice. But here goes with a few assumptions since I don't know the full story.

First of all I am assuming the problem young man is not the son of the Bishop. You did not indciate that he was so I will assume that is not the case.

The Bishop is responsible to uphold the standards of the church, but this is not an easy task when the offending person is still a minor and the parents are not dealing with the problem.

I agree with Classy Lady that the young man cannot be ostracized because it is important to love, support and guide other members.

You say that there are issues with the law of chastity and drug use. Are these things going on to your knowledge on church activities, outings and Temple trips? If so then this indeed is serious and perhaps if the Bishop is unable or unwilling to act upon it at least by holding meetings with parents or coming up with a plan of disciplinary action, then you and others that need to have this addressed may need to go beyond the Bishop and speak with the Stake President.

A long time ago in another ward there was an issue that was serious regarding a family in our ward and the Bishop would not act upon it, and indeed it was brought to the Stake Prez.

If there are people who will not bring their families to activities because of this, then you and these families need to get together and follow through impressing the seriousness of the matter.

Just remember to do it in love and understanding.

I tend to read the profiles of those I converse with online (I will add more about myself very soon), but you describe your self in detail and that you have faced challenges earlier in your life. Just handle the situation in a way that will help to guide this wayward young man toward the Gospel and not away from it.

Edited June 13, 2011 by LDSJewess

[Guest tbaird22]

why dont you do something about it instead of complaining about how your bishop does nothing. Sounds like your doing nothing too (except ranting on the internet). Being a bishop is hard. Even the scriptures say so 1Tim 3:1. If your the EQ President why dont you talk to the dads of the disruptive kids? As it is more of a parenting problem. The Bishop can call the kids into interviews and what not but they can and will straight up lie to him so theres not much he can do unless they tell him there problems. Finally like Jewess said you can take it to the stake pres. But thatd require action

[pam]

why dont you do something about it instead of complaining about how your bishop does nothing. Sounds like your doing nothing too (except ranting on the internet). Being a bishop is hard. Even the scriptures say so 1Tim 3:1. If your the EQ President why dont you talk to the dads of the disruptive kids? As it is more of a parenting problem. The Bishop can call the kids into interviews and what not but they can and will straight up lie to him so theres not much he can do unless they tell him there problems. Finally like Jewess said you can take it to the stake pres. But thatd require action

And then again, Bytor is coming here to get perspectives on the situation. Which is what you and others have also done in other threads and in other situations. So let's give him that courtesy.

[pam]

Bytor, I think sometimes we tend to put the Bishop up on some kind of perceived pedastal. That he is the all knowing leader of our ward.

When in reality he faces the same struggles and hardships as we do. In his case it sounds like the lack of employment is bringing him down. I'm sure that has caused undue stress in his own life.

[bytor2112]

why dont you do something about it instead of complaining about how your bishop does nothing. Sounds like your doing nothing too (except ranting on the internet). Being a bishop is hard. Even the scriptures say so 1Tim 3:1. If your the EQ President why dont you talk to the dads of the disruptive kids? As it is more of a parenting problem. The Bishop can call the kids into interviews and what not but they can and will straight up lie to him so theres not much he can do unless they tell him there problems. Finally like Jewess said you can take it to the stake pres. But thatd require action

My Bishop does nothing and it is not my responsibility to create an environment that fosters the desire among the youth to live the church standards.....that falls on the Bishop. As I said, it is a parenting problem AND it is a problem with the Bishops leadership failures. The Stake President is aware of the situation as it has been going on for a while. My "complaining" is really venting....others, have voiced their concerns, their disgust, etc with the Bishop and the Stake President.

Bishop's are just men and make mistakes...our Bishop has checked out. As for lying to the Bishop...yes...but there are witnesses...multiple witnesses...including leaders and other parents. The Bishop cowtows to the young Men's President...whose son is the main offender.

Otherwise, thanks for the advice...worthless as it was.

[bytor2112]

Bytor, I think sometimes we tend to put the Bishop up on some kind of perceived pedastal. That he is the all knowing leader of our ward.

When in reality he faces the same struggles and hardships as we do. In his case it sounds like the lack of employment is bringing him down. I'm sure that has caused undue stress in his own life.

Without a doubt that was a major contributor. But, you know a year in the life of a youth can seem like forever....many of the youth aren't going to Youth Conference or other church activities. Correction is needed and necessary.....release the YM's President, ask to be released as Bishop if you don't wish to serve.

It is highly frustrating.....

[Backroads]

I would suggest meeting with the stake president, though I'm not sure what would need to be said so you're not "tattle-telling". Something is a little off with the youth population and I highly doubt one man can fix it, which is what it sounds like you want the bishop to do. I do believe that help from above (meaning the stake presidency) could help clean this us.

But when you say it's not your job to foster a welcoming feeling... it kind of is. It has to start somewhere.

[lizzy16]

We had a situation sort of similar in my ward a few years ago except it was the young women. And, it wasn't as bad..

I was a new beehive along with 2 other beehives. There was a large amount of laurels. Each laurel, 6 or so had extreme family issues and came to church with negative sarcastic attitudes. All lessons and activities were centered around them. The YW's president would take them out for special 'laurel activities'.

The beehives were completley excluded and we were basically ignored. We weren't a big enough concern appearently. I fell inactive as did the other beehives. We didn't want to go to church and feel unwelcome, unwanted and have no one take interest in our well being. I never realized how wrong the program was then. We know have an amazing YWs program (even if we spend tons of times painting and sewing when I want to go shooting..). It wasn't until the other mothers and my own voiced there concerns that the yw's program was reformed (I didn't realize my mom had any part in this until we talked about it recently.)

. New leaders were called and the laurels we're told to cut the crap or leave. Just like that. I was shocked when the yw president said it that way but I think she was doing the right thing. No point in having someone there whos in the wrong spirit hurting others. Anyway.

Keep voicing your concerns and let your kids know whats going on isn't normal. And, its not right.

I suggest having the other kids band togather and have activites outside of mutual. Go to the movies, hang out, have game nights. Don't invite those causing problems. A HUGE part of the youth program is bonding, and that can't happen with such feelings around.

[rameumptom]

We all have the responsibility as priesthood leaders to keep the church spotless and away from sin. I would sit down with the YM president and ask him how the Church can assist him with his son. It may be that the kid has some issues that can be addressed in this way. I would also kindly sit down with the Bishop and share your feelings with him. If he is unresponsive, I'd let him know that it is of such a big concern to you that you will be speaking with the stake president for guidance, as these young men are unworthy of partaking/blessing the Sacrament and are disruptive of the program.

Then I'd leave it in the hands of the stake president to address.

[applepansy]

Bytor, I haven't read everyone's responses but I did read all yours.

The offending youth(s) need to be sent home, including the YM President's son. If he can't act appropriately during SS, YMs and Wednesday night activities then he needs to not be there. If the YMs pres refuses to see the problem or discipline his son then its appropriate to take the kids who want to learn somewhere else.... Another room on Sunday? A youth leader's home on Wednesday night?

If the bishop has checked out then he needs to know that it is apparent to ward members. Its not doing him or the ward any favors to ignore the issue. If you're his friend then you are a good person to have that prayerful discussion with him. The Stake Pres too.

When a few kids make it so miserable that the majority don't go then there is a very serious issue. If it can't be resolved at the Stake level take it higher. The youth are important...we can't losing them because someone along the chair refuses to see and resolve the issues. When something as you describe happens in a ward its a call for serious action.

Before acting... Fast, Pray, Fast, Pray and do it all again. Then go with humility in your heart. At the end of it all be obedient. It is only through our obedience to our leaders that we become eligible for blessings. Sometimes that's really really hard when we feel they are wrong. But....I've witnessed some amazing blessings come from obedience when I felt the bishop was dead wrong and I obeyed anyway.

Edited June 13, 2011 by applepansy

[LDSVALLEY]

Bytor, I feel I understand your position with this. I am friends with our current Bishop, he is a kind man who tends to be a bull in a china shop type when trying to solve issues. I had to tell him that a friend is a friend for life a Bishop is a temporary calling. That I separate the two, when we discuss church I refer to him as Bishop. When I am helping my friend I call him by name. I have disagreed with many things, I have voiced my opinion in appropriate times over serious issues to the Bishopric and\or Stake Presidency.

When I voice a negative opinion I do my best to explain why, based on the gospel or handbook, I think something is wrong. I offer suggestions on what appears to be more correct direction. I keep in mind that we are all human and struggle with life.

After I do all I can to correct or influence what seems to be incorrect but is outside by direct control then I try and leave it alone and do what I am responsible for.

For example I am a Councilor in EQ at present. The Bishopric is pushing Missionary Work, 90% of the talks and lessons are on the subject each month. Investigators are being scared off because they think that is all the church is about and members are sick and tired of hearing about it week after week.

I pointed out we were in that situation three years ago and our baptism showed it people were so turned off by it we had few baptisms and no interest. When we switched to a balanced approach dealing with all gospel topics and quietly encouraged little steps we led the Stake in baptism and retention. I have brought this up to the Stake and Bishopric several times, I know feel I have done all I can so the last few months I have just stayed out of it.

I don't do it for them but for me, the more I fester on what should be done the less I feel the spirit. I have sounded the warning trumpet now all I can do is what I can within the responsibility I have been given. Look after my family and my spirituality.

[Palerider]

There is more to the story and he isn't a bad Bishop.....but he is a checked out Bishop. And ALL youth ...all members should feel welcome at church...including the wayward youth. But the Bishop has allowed a really horrible problem to grow and become out of control...to that point that many parents have pulled their kids out of the Wednesday night activities.

These boys aren't just disruptive....if that was all it was..... then no big deal. The good ones are ostracized....the bad ones, well, they should be asked and their parents informed that they must behave as befits one who holds the Priesthood. Correction is oh so necessary...(last general conference was a great talk).

Can I ask how you would go about fixing the problem???

[Guest mormonmusic]

I would suggest meeting with the stake president, though I'm not sure what would need to be said so you're not "tattle-telling". Something is a little off with the youth population and I highly doubt one man can fix it, which is what it sounds like you want the bishop to do. I do believe that help from above (meaning the stake presidency) could help clean this us.

But when you say it's not your job to foster a welcoming feeling... it kind of is. It has to start somewhere.

I agree with Backroads. You report to the Stake Presidency actually; not the Bishop. That is the long arm of the Stake which creates consistency and control in our Wards. If you have a regular PPI with the Stake Presidency, then bring this up. He CAN'T abdicate his responsibility. Too many people depend on him as a Bishop.

However, I wouldn't do that until you spoke to the Bishop FIRST. Conflicts should be handled at the lowest level possible in the organization, so out of respect, you should give him a chance if convos with the leaders closest to the youth haven't born fruit. If I was a SP member, the first thing I would ask is whether you had spoken to the right people at the Ward level. If you haven't, I'd send you there first. I didn't read the whole discussion up to this point, just scanned it, but that's my assessment.

By way of Empathy, we had a Bishop who checked out emotionally. And he was totally unsupportive of myself, the priesthood leader. It demotivated me severely and I eventually asked to be released. I shared my belief there was a need for a "revitalization" of the Priesthood Executive Committee and indicated this man's three-time stint as a Bishop was obviously wearing on him. He got released a couple months later and I think he found it a relief actually. Of course, you need to decide if you want to share this and if you feel it is the right thing. I knew it was given his total abdication from all matters except handling welfare cases and keeping the Ward running...

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Here are my thoughts.

1) It may or may not be the parents problems. Many people are quick to point out that if children act out, are disrespectful, or disruptive, hooligans, etc, it is because something the Parents are not doing. We do not stop to think that maybe the parents are well aware of what is going on, and are just as frustrated in seeing that their children are acting out the way they are acting out.

2) Why wait for the Bishop to do something? If these young men are under the authority of a seminary teacher and are disruptive, then the seminary teacher needs to contact the Parents and the Bishop and let both know what is going on and if it does not stop, then the children will no longer be welcomed into the seminary class.

3) If they are creating havoc and are doing activities that are knowingly illegal, I will contact the parents, contact the parents home teachers (if you are not), and find out. If they are dealing on church property, it is time to contact 911 and this can be done anonymously. Maybe when the police show up on the Church grounds and arrest these young men because of drug peddling, it is going to get attention and questions will begin to be raised.

4) As others have stated, if you have already gone to the Bishop and the Bishop is allowing his personal life getting into the way of him performing his calling as a steward and Judge in Israel, then it is time to take it to the Stake level.

In our previous ward, there were two different youths. Both were not members. They were not siblings, but one was part of the young women's program and she would come to the activities and openly discuss sexual intimate details and tell other young women how to perform certain sexual acts. She was allowed to continue to come. I happened to walk by one day and her her conversing and the Young women leaders were rolling their eyes, whispering, and not saying anything. I walked up to this young woman and firmly informed her that her conversation is inappropriate and not welcomed in the Church. I also informed her that if she does not refrain from having that type of conversation in the Church and with the other young women, she needs to take leave and come back when she is willing and ready to respect the law of chastity and not engage in that type of conversation. The young women leaders gave me a dirty look as I smiled and walked away. She never showed back up to Church and I was blamed for the gospel not being presented to her.

A young man was forced by his aunt to come to church. He was very disrespectful towards adults and other scouts. This included my step-son. When I started participating in my stepsons scout troop, the leaders would ask him politely to do something and he would bad mouth them, curse them out and they would sit there. He then was throwing stuff at people and made the mistake of hitting me with the object he was throwing. I stood up, walked over to him, pulled his chair down (because he was leaning back in it and rocking in it) and firmly informed him that he is disrespectful, that his behavior is unwelcomed in the Church and in the Scouting program, that he was rude and disrespectful. I further explained to him that the next time I see him at scouts, he better show respect towards the leaders and the other scouts.

This kid mouthed off to me and cursed me up one side down another and said some very inappropriate things towards me. I asked the kid to leave, and walked out behind him and confronted his aunt, informing her what he had said, what he was doing, and how inappropriate it was. I informed his aunt and uncle that he was being a bully and that I will not have it and that until his behavior improved he is not welcomed in the scout program (I was not in any type of leadership, however he was physically threatening my step son, assaulted my step son to some degree and I threatened to call the police if he laid one more finger on my stepson).

What I have discovered today is that many parents are too afraid to stand up to these types of kids. They are nothing but bully's. When they reach this level of behavior, it is when we need to stand up and tell them firmly, confidently, and without wavering that they are not welcomed until their behavior improves. IF the parents and the Bishop does not want to do anything about it and it is causing such a safety concern, then it is time to move into a different ward and let the cards fall where they may on that ward. The leadership in that ward will be judged for allowing such contention to happen in their neck of the woods.

My wife and I no longer have to put up with that in our new ward because there is not anyone (that we know of yet) where the youth are being disruptive. Granted, I teach the course 15 now for Sunday school, and have a small class of 3-6 15/16 year olds (one kid claims he is perfect and still waiting for the lightening bolts to come down) but they are very respectful and mindful. There is one guy who is a bit disruptive, but not to the point that is described here.

People may disagree with me, however, I think some of the world influence of positive "you can't say that," with a smile attitude is proving more dangerous. We need to put our foot down and let them know that their behavior is unacceptable. Sometimes, that means becoming the most ostrocized and unpopular person in the ward. Someone has to do it.