Selfish Children?

[Windseeker]

I'm married (3 years) and have 4 kids (ages 8-16) from a previous marriage. My wife has been getting increasingly frustrated to the point of tears and threatening to leave because she feels the kids do not listen to her and feels they are totally selfish. I've been getting on her for her impatience and lack of nurturing. She also has a tendency to accuse them falsely for things. So I usually come to their defense as I understand them better. I've been parenting longer (16 years vs her 3 years) and seem to have more patience for the kids.

But as I really look at things I realize they don't pick up after themselves unless asked and when asked to do so they complain. It's hard hearing this about my kids but after thinking about it I've come to realize they are more selfish then they should be. I assumed this is just all kids but maybe my behavior and their mother that left them (pure selfish reasons), taught them to be selfish.

How do you teach your kids to not be selfish? I know it varies with age, but how young do you start and what do you teach and at what age?

Edited July 20, 2011 by Windseeker

[mightynancy]

I think I'd start by trying to reduce the tension - have a family chat about all working together to make the home environment nice (physically and emotionally). Your kids are old enough to have valuable input. They may also have emotional injuries from their mother leaving, and they're unconsciously taking it out on your wife - acknowledge that, if it exists, and help them find their way forward.

It's hard to establish authority as a step parent - and maybe shouldn't be tried, LOL. I'd work on the idea of cooperation rather than obedience.

Love and Logic books and workshops are great - they help parents raise kids to be self-sufficient. Also How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen & Listen So Your Kids Will Talk is great. Both of these series are old enough that they'll be available at the library or secondhand (if you don't want to plunk down a bunch of money).

Love and Logic will really dial down the emotional volume. Its focus on giving the kids' problems back to the kids will eventually help them be less selfish (though, with the example of not doing chores it sounds like they're just untrained and unhabituated).

Sometimes my kids will slack on chores when they feel like they need more mothering. A little bit of TLC, and doing something nice for them that they could do themselves, is just the trick. The key for us, though, is the self-sufficiency that makes those gestures meaningful. For example, it's standard operating procedure for you to make a snack for a toddler. But for a teen who *could* do it himself (and usually does), it's a nice treat to have a plate of snacks offered to him.

[Windseeker]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I have the How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen & Listen So Your Kids Will Talk but have not read it yet.

What about doing chores half way? We ask them to sweep the room and they do it halfway. We have to ask them to do it again and again. They leave dishes and messes in the kitchen and none of them claim responsability. Are my kids the only ones who do that?

[Dravin]

So I usually come to their defense as I understand them better.

There are way disagreements like that can be handled some good and some bad (bad would be breaking down into an argument with shrieking and crockery in front of the kids). Don't know which way you are doing it (as I don't know you) but it's something to keep in mind as if handled poorly it undermines her authority (I don't have to listen to you, just Dad, he'll back me up) and can exacerbate issues with them respecting her authority.

How do you teach your kids to not be selfish?

My two cents, this is from observation not experience:

Consistency - Sometimes it's easier to just pick up after them then to not have them pick up after themselves, but if they only get told to pick up 1 in 10 times they are going to play the odds. This also extends to you being unified with your wife in discipline and teaching, nothing worse than being able to play Mom and Dad off each other.

Set expectations - A good Family Home Evening idea is to establish everyone's responsibilities (including yours and your wife's) and the consequences of disobedience. This rubs up against consistency too. If you let those responsibilities slide and consequences are inconsistent they'll play the odds.

There will be an adjustment period - They'll complain at first, you can discourage it of course by attaching consequences to it, but if they aren't used to putting the dishes in the dish washer or what have you after they are done eating they are going to forget and be a bit grumpy during the time it takes to be a habit.

Obviously this is the more practical side focusing on picking up after yourself and contributing to the family. The next bit is more general.

Example - You have to be unselfish as parents, instead of going to a movie take the family and do a service projects, volunteer to help clean up at Church and stay after activities to help take stuff down. Also, serve one another. Not that you need to be releasing people from their responsibilities, but if your wife has agreed to wash the dishes as part of her responsibilities and she's having a hard day help her out. Better yet, gather the kids together and help her out by doing them. Same with if say a child has to study for a test or is having a bad day, gather the whole family (or as much as you can) and perform service for them.

Probably not worth a full 2 cents but there ya go.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dravin

[applepansy]

Dravin, that's good advice.

We were having this problem with our children (and we're not divorced, no step parents---just selfish children). They were younger and for Christmas instead of gifts we did a FHE and make gifts of service. It was fun. It was hard to get the kids to redeem them, but it was worth the effort.

Respecting a step parent is harder to over come. Windseeker, just because you understand the kids better doesn't mean you take their side. They will never learn to respect their step mother if you don't respect her enough to back her up. She's the adult.

[rameumptom]

Some day your kids will be out of the house and on their own. You will still be with your wife. While sometimes she may make mistakes, you need to take her side more often than not.

Sit down together, make a plan on how the two of you will handle problems with the kids, including punishments, etc. It may be that you swing by the library and check out a few books on the issue. There is a great series of books at LoveAndLogic.com including how to respond to teenagers when they leave you speechless.

Find a strategy you both can live with, then both of you stick with it. The kids will see a united front from the parents, and will soon realize that they can't play you two against each other (which is exactly what they are doing). I've been there as a step-parent, so I know exactly how she feels.

As for picking up/doing dishes/etc, come to an agreement with your wife what the discipline will be for not complying. Explain to the kids the new rules and discipline, so they understand the consequences. Then you only give the kids a second telling (tell them twice, no more). The third time the discipline kicks in. It may be sitting in time out. grounding, taking away their favorite thing for a few days (go ahead, take your teenage daughter's cell phone away from her for a few days, and you'll see how quickly she responds the next time!), etc.

Edited July 20, 2011 by rameumptom

[Gwen]

What about doing chores half way? We ask them to sweep the room and they do it halfway. We have to ask them to do it again and again. They leave dishes and messes in the kitchen and none of them claim responsability. Are my kids the only ones who do that?

:rofl:Congrats, your kids are normal.

Not sure I have much advise to give at the moment. Is their mother still in their life? Do you have children with your wife? I'm a step parent so I know it can be very difficult.

[Suzie]

So I usually come to their defense as I understand them better. I've been parenting longer (16 years vs her 3 years) and seem to have more patience for the kids.

I really hope you come to their defense in private and not in front of them otherwise it would set a terrible example, your wife would be very upset and kids will push every single button they can because when they see the disagreement, they will become very manipulative.

Chores aren't an option at home. The oldest one always complains but he is getting used to the fact that if he complains, then he won't get ANY privileges and he will still have to do the chores! So I always tell him: Be smart, do it without complaining and you can get stuff instead of complaining, getting no privileges and have to do the chores regardless!

[Windseeker]

:rofl:Congrats, your kids are normal.

Not sure I have much advise to give at the moment. Is their mother still in their life? Do you have children with your wife? I'm a step parent so I know it can be very difficult.

We don't have children together and the Mom is thousands of miles away and not involved that much.

It seems my wife views the kids as extremely dirty and that bothers me. It’s also difficult because we have one of her nephews living with us and she seems to favor him, shows more love and patience then she shows my son who’s much younger. I understand why she loves her nephew more, she has known him much longer, but she married me knowing I have kids and I was hoping my youngest son would get some motherly love and patience. I worry about him. It seems her harshness leaves him depressed.

I have spoken to the kids about her to try to help them understand how she is different and to be patient with her. In private I've asked my wife to please follow the advice in the D&C "Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;" I also don't understand her preoccupation with cleanliness

but you know..I suppose I'm beating her over the head with scriptures and guilt.

I appreciate the advice. I don't want to be divorced again.

[Gwen]

does she see a problem with the situation beyond "your kids are a problem"? does she agree she needs to change some things? if she doesn't see it there isn't much you can do. if she does see it i would start reading one of the suggested books together and act on it.

when i married my husband i did it knowing that i accepted his son and all that came with that (visitations, child support, etc). it has not always been easy but i have kept to that. not everyone takes that attitude.

[applepansy]

We don't have children together and the Mom is thousands of miles away and not involved that much.

It seems my wife views the kids as extremely dirty and that bothers me. It’s also difficult because we have one of her nephews living with us and she seems to favor him, shows more love and patience then she shows my son who’s much younger. I understand why she loves her nephew more, she has known him much longer, but she married me knowing I have kids and I was hoping my youngest son would get some motherly love and patience. I worry about him. It seems her harshness leaves him depressed.

I have spoken to the kids about her to try to help them understand how she is different and to be patient with her. In private I've asked my wife to please follow the advice in the D&C "Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;" I also don't understand her preoccupation with cleanliness

but you know..I suppose I'm beating her over the head with scriptures and guilt.

I appreciate the advice. I don't want to be divorced again.

That is a very different situation. She agreed to be his mother and she should learn to love him. After three years that should have happened.

Have you considered family counseling?

[Suzie]

That is a very different situation. She agreed to be his mother and she should learn to love him. After three years that should have happened.

Have you considered family counseling?

Maybe she does love him and she's under a lot of stress. A possibility.

[Gwen]

Being a stepmother myself I can say it's very hard for the biological parent to understand the love you have. You can love them but that love is expressed differently, more objectivly than when you are the biological parent.

I love my stepson, I have done everything humanly possible to make sure he is part of this family and his brothers and sisters don't feel like "half" siblings. We are a family. Investing in that way takes a large amount of emotional energy and concious effort. It can be very hard.

It gets even more complicated when you can see things more objectively and you see the biological parent making a bad choice. Do you stand up for the kid or do you follow your spouse knowing they are wrong? When you do stand up the parent may not see that you are standing up for the kids, all they see is "going against me". You become the bad guy. That's not healthy for a marriage. Your only option then becomes to emotionally seperate yourself from the step child so that you can "not care" and not want to fight for what is best for them. It can become very tangled and confusing.

Based on what is here take the stepmom out of the situation for awhile. take the pressure off her to do any diciplining or chore assignments, etc. While letting her take that step back do some couple counseling to work out the emotions and boundries. Learn how to work her back into the mix as an equal to you in the kids eyes. The more stress there is between the two of you the harder it will be for her to have the patience and things she needs with the kids. Not because she hates the kids that's just how it happens, would be the same if they were biological kids. When the parents are on edge with eachother they tend to take it out on the kids in the form of easily agitated, less patience, short nerves, etc.

[Windseeker]

Thanks for the advice. It helped me gain allot of insight.