Men & Women: The differences

[annewandering]

Feminist does not = man haters. :) It no doubt is true many do however. Just wanted to polnt that out being a feminist myself in many ways. I do dislike men that put women down and, no doubt, overreact to it... :)

[Hala401]

When I was investigating, one of the reasons that I was reticent is that I'd had experiences with some males in Islam. Other males were wonderful, protective and kind. One of them at my Masjid, while pretty gruff, was always really fatherly to me. He caught me checking the oil on my car once and scolded me, saying, "Sister, this not for woman. You let me know, I will do this". LOL Yes, he already had wife. So, I can respond positively to a man. When they get condescending and superioristic, "the thunder rolls".

It was when I heard President Gordon B. Hinckley speaking at the 2004 conference. (Youtube) that I began to feel safe.

And, I was at first confused by the FLDS; thinking that was the main stream church.

[Dove]

There definitely seems to be a difference of opinion here. I just hope Hala doesn't feel ganged up on by everyone.

Hala, you are "sweet" and humble to me~I believe you have already apologized three different times on this thread when people take issue with what you've said.

As for the other comments, I have never heard it said in church that woman are better than men. I have never come up against that discrimination, neither have I subscribed to it here or anywhere else. As far as "poor victimized me;" yes, I am a victim of horrific sexual abuse done by my dad. I will never again be ashamed to own this as part of my past.

Leah, why not look up the history of domestic violence done by males alone in Utah? I think you would be surprised at how prevalent it is. When my mom was young, the cultural belief was that the man/husband/father was the head of the house and that law enforcement stayed out of his business in how he chose to lead it. i.e., they did nothing to intervene in domestic violence......

You know, I think I will go look up the statistics on spousal/wife abuse in Utah alone. I do know the leading cause of death for children is death by their parents. I'll look up that statistic as well. Also, statistics on how prevalent the man ruling over the wife in the home has been in the not too distant past. If I presented those statistics to you, would you then be willing to consider their is another side to all this?

Regardless, I think it fair to Hala that if someone is having issue with her comments to either pm a moderator or pm Hala. It does seem that she has been ganged up on a few times here. I feel that if the moderator's are upset with what someone is saying, a way of giving the offender more dignity and respect is to pm them and not call them out on a public thread.

Dove

[beefche]

There definitely seems to be a difference of opinion here. I just hope Hala doesn't feel ganged up on by everyone.

Hala, you are "sweet" and humble to me~I believe you have already apologized three different times on this thread when people take issue with what you've said.

Regardless, I think it fair to Hala that if someone is having issue with her comments to either pm a moderator or pm Hala. It does seem that she has been ganged up on a few times here. I feel that if the moderator's are upset with what someone is saying, a way of giving the offender more dignity and respect is to pm them and not call them out on a public thread.

Dove

Here is something from the site rules:

9. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source.

Asking someone for a source of their statement (or statistic in this particular case) isn't "ganging" up or "calling them out". It's asking for a source. And it's perfectly fine to say "I heard a couple of missionaries say it." At which time, someone is bound to let that person know that such a statement is not official, accurate, or reliable.

[Dravin]

Regardless, I think it fair to Hala that if someone is having issue with her comments to either pm a moderator or pm Hala.

This is excellent counsel if someone feels Hala's comments are in violation of site rules.

[Dove]

Thank you for the clarification, Beefche.

I still feel for Hala, she really has apologized at least three times on this thread. Albeit, once to me because I was questioning what she said. I'm trying to say I've been guilty of this as well....However, I did try to say it in a respectful way.

Here are some links to the statistics on domestic violence in Utah;

Violence & Injury Prevention Program

CCJJ: Utah Office on Domestic & Sexual Violence

Futures Without Violence: Get the Facts Which says;

Prevalence of Domestic Violence in the United States

• On average more than three women a day are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in the United States. In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.2
• In 2008, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published data collected in 2005 that finds that women experience two million injuries from intimate partner violence each year.3
• Nearly one in four women in the United States reports experiencing violence by a current or former spouse or boyfriend at some point in her life.4
• Women are much more likely than men to be victimized by a current or former intimate partner.5 Women are 84 percent of spouse abuse victims and 86 percent of victims of abuse at the hands of a boyfriend or girlfriend and about three-fourths of the persons who commit family violence are male.6
• There were 248,300 rapes/sexual assaults in the United States in 2007, more than 500 per day, up from 190,600 in 2005. Women were more likely than men to be victims; the rate for rape/sexual assault for persons age 12 or older in 2007 was 1.8 per 1,000 for females and 0.1 per 1,000 for males.7
• The United States Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics estimates that 3.4 million persons said they were victims of stalking during a 12-month period in 2005 and 2006. Women experience 20 stalking victimizations per 1,000 females age 18 and older, while men experience approximately seven stalking victimizations per 1,000 males age 18 and older.8

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CG4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.udvc.org%2FJudicialMapUDVC.pdf&ei=QMzrT7f3HsjZqgHRs7DQBQ&usg=AFQjCNHDOy6zb2yLdiIKLUl_sMd-fMg-bg

This is just the surface of what I found....

[Hala401]

Here is something from the site rules:

9. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source.

Asking someone for a source of their statement (or statistic in this particular case) isn't "ganging" up or "calling them out". It's asking for a source. And it's perfectly fine to say "I heard a couple of missionaries say it." At which time, someone is bound to let that person know that such a statement is not official, accurate, or reliable.

I am not going to push it for reasons I had not considered before I shared it. Actually, the only other place I shared it was with a man who was minimising women's contribution, and degrading me in front of a group.

One thing that men have is the priesthood, something I have felt quite grateful to some of them for the way they discharge their office. Being effective as a missionary is not the center of the church. In fact, I am not sure what the center of the church is. I am just thankful for every member of it.

[annewandering]

Finally an easy question! Hala, the center of the church is Christ. :) And yes I know you know that. Isnt it wonderful that the most important thing is the simplest? Even people such as I can understand that.