Men & Women: The differences

[prisonchaplain]

That's entrapment.

Occupational hazzard.

[Hala401]

Yet there are many women who choose to have several children. Do we judge them and put them in a bad light because that is their choice. It's a personal choice how many children we choose to have. It's not for any of us to say that 4 is enough.

I did not mean to imply that I would not support their choice. I just don't think I could handle it.

[pam]

I did not mean to imply that I would not support their choice. I just don't think I could handle it.

Yet that is what you implied unfortunately.

[Hala401]

Yet that is what you implied unfortunately.

Sigh.

[Hala401]

It was much easier when I was not LDS. Then you were nice to me.

[Misshalfway]

Thank goodness there are differences between men and women!! Without them, I think my sex drive would go to pot!

But we certainly do get confused about this sort of stuff. Hard to know all the time where doctrine ends and culture begins....

[beefche]

It was much easier when I was not LDS. Then you were nice to me.

I'm confused. Are you saying that because pam pointed out that your words didn't indicate your intention that pam is being unkind?

[Leah]

Yet there are many women who choose to have several children. Do we judge them and put them in a bad light because that is their choice. It's a personal choice how many children we choose to have. It's not for any of us to say that 4 is enough.

I completey agree.

And aren't we taught rather clearly that the number of children is a decision to be made between the couple and God? Why would anyone want to interfere with that process?

The wonderful friends who brought me to the gospel have 8 sons. Should they have been forced to stop at three or four? The husband comes from a family of nine children. Should five or six of them have never been born? I can tell you unequivocally that those who some think should never have been born, have made an enormous and positive impact on those around them.

As for 'breaking a women down', the mothers of these families have been, and are, strong women. Women who don't regret any of their children.

One of the many freedoms we enjoy in this country is not having someone else dictate the size of our families.

[Leah]

I'm confused. Are you saying that because pam pointed out that your words didn't indicate your intention that pam is being unkind?

It also implies - deliberately - that the imagined 'unkindness' is due to being LDS. Why would one person who is LDS be 'unkind' to another person because they are LDS? I'm not following the logic in that one!

[bluedreams]

Not going to lie. Some of the quotes I liked….and some I have some major discrepancies with. For instance:

Benson states that “You [women] were not created to be the same as men. Your natural attributes, affections, and personalities are entirely different from a man’s. “ ….Alright this is fine. Men and women are different I can agree with that first part. I don’t know if I’d go so for to say entirely differ though. I grew up entirely with boys….they weren’t all that different in many respects. Besides if we were both made in God’s image, I would assume we cannot be that entirely distinct.

But my real problem with he depiction of women’s traits is with this: “They consist of faithfulness, benevolence, kindness, and charity. They give you the personality of a woman. They also balance the more aggressive and competitive nature of a man.” The traits he described as giving a personality of a woman are Christ-like attributes who, last time I check was a man….and not only a man, but The Man. These traits are not to be imbued on ½ of God’s children, but the entirety. I don’t think it’s correct to feminize traits, God obviously expected His children to be universally endowed with.

My other problem is this: “The business world is competitive and sometimes ruthless. We do not doubt that women have both the brainpower and skills—and in some instances superior abilities—to compete with men. But by competing they must, of necessity, become aggressive and competitive. Thus their godly attributes are diminished and they acquire a quality of sameness with man”

First of all, who said the business world should be competitive and ruthless? I personally believe that much of the unhindered competition also fed much of the business world’s corruption and fuels some pretty poor social, business, and economic practices. I think most businesses could definitely use a “woman’s touch” per se to hopefully engender less volatile market practices.

Second, I still have a problem of the means he describes men and women. Particularly with competitiveness. God described me as competitive…it doesn’t make me a man. In fact I remember once going through my PB looking for all the ways the Lord described me. It was, at the time, meant to help counter my own sense of inadequacy. But once or twice I thought of how many of these attributes would others describe as masculine while others would be considered feminine? It is always interesting when I hear people describe the inherent nature of a man and to realize that their expected weakness and strengths are the exact same ones that God has described in me over the year and inherent to my eternal nature and struggles in life.

Last major problem:

“I hope the time never comes when women will be brought down to the level with men, although they seem to be making these demands in meetings held . . . all over the world”

….I hate when we are placed on a pedestal or above the man in any way, shape, form or fashion. It leads to a lot of problems in my opinion.

What I did like: “When a man understands how glorious a woman is, he treats her differently. When a woman understands that a man has the seeds of divinity within him, she honors him not only for who he is but for what he may become. An understanding of the divine nature allows each person to have respect for the other. The eternal view engenders a desire in men and women to learn from and share with each other.”

I think this should not only apply in the home but, ideally, in every social sphere as well. I think one of the major signs of are fallen state is how little women’s voices are heard and utilized in needed spheres of influence. It would be a better place if both men and women were actively engaged in the public sphere as well as the private. Again this is idealic, but I think it would be foundational to Zion. Not that they should be one and the same, but that their different perspectives be equally represented. This, to me, would help develop stabler societies.

And Pam, I don't feel that Hala meant to imply anything. And I think her concern is legitimate also. Though we should repect everybody's choices she's also right that it can be pretty taxing on a woman. Some women it would certainly be best not to have very large families. Some can (relatively) easily maintain it. I think her comment hinged on assuming there is an obligation to have very large families. It's not obligatory and for many families would be unwise to view it as such. The comment you mentioned, seems more defensive to those with large families. Coming from someone of mutliple generations of large families, I'm just fine with what she said.

With luv,

BD

Edited June 19, 2012 by bluedreams

[skippy740]

Unix/Linux has a "man" command, you use it to find out about other commands. Someone suggested there should be a "woman" command as well, but nobody has the bandwidth to download it, or the disk space to maintain it.

Reminded me of:

Girlfriend 6.0 vs Wife 1.0

[prisonchaplain]

It also implies - deliberately - that the imagined 'unkindness' is due to being LDS. Why would one person who is LDS be 'unkind' to another person because they are LDS? I'm not following the logic in that one!

The suggestion might be that there is kindness extended to an investigator, because such a person may convert (a good thing). Also, investigators are not expected to know much about the faith, and so allowances may be made. Once one has converted s/he is expected to embrace spiritual discipline, learn with passion, and to accept a certain level of criticism (admonishment sounds more spiritual, doesn't it?).

[Guest]

Was it hot?

No but it was 7:30am on a Saturday.

[prisonchaplain]

No but it was 7:30am on a Saturday.

Well then...you're not just a Latter Day Saint...you are an every day one!

[annewandering]

Men and women are different. Ideally when we seek a mate, we look for someone that compliments what we are. I am more strict than my husband. He is more flexible. That is just one way we compliment each other. Now it could well be, in another marriage, that she will be more flexible and he will be more strict. Is one right over the other? I doubt it.

The point being, yes we are different, but does that mean we are all different in the same way depending on whether we are male or female? Sounds unlikely to me.

The idea that women are naturally submissive must have got lost in some gene malfunction with me. The idea that men are more aggressive must have gotten lost in my husbands genes.

Mostly we are different, by sex, in childbearing/hormones but I will challenge most every other so called natural difference.

[Guest]

Mostly we are different, by sex, in childbearing/hormones but I will challenge most every other so called natural difference.

There are a lot of psychological differences that are instinctive between male and female. It all stems from an inherent need for species survival. Your husband may not be aggressive but when put in survival mode, he will rise up to his male genetics... or go extinct.

[annewandering]

There are a lot of psychological differences that are instinctive between male and female. It all stems from an inherent need for species survival. Your husband may not be aggressive but when put in survival mode, he will rise up to his male genetics... or go extinct.

Actually, I believe, WE would rise up to fill the need if it becomes a need. Its pointless for him to do it alone because we would go extinct if it was not WE. I have never seen many of these instinctive psychological differences unless you mean cultural differences. Anatess, you are a prime example of it not being genetic by sex.

Edited June 20, 2012 by annewandering

[pam]

Out of the vast depth of my lack of understanding come questions too complex for me to understand. Having worked most of my life in construction, which is in most cases a male based world, I well know how difficult it is for a woman in that area. And, when I finally learned enough to do an office job, it was at times doubly hard, because some of those male executives eat "raw steak for breakfast".

I've come to the place that my opinion is that we at times don't get treated so well, because of our, to varying extents, reticent nature. For me to stand up to a man holding a hammer, and raising his voice at me is almost impossible. I don't know if the testosterone advantage will ever go away.

I watch a lot of HGTV where they have quite a few female carpenters who do wonderful work. As a female working in that field of construction all of those years, do you feel you were respected for the work you did or do you feel that they didn't think you could do as good of a job?

[Seminarysnoozer]

I find it interesting how whenever the discussion of the differences between men and women are expressed they are given with the qualifier of "gift" or "endowed" (like the Richard G. Scott quote given), both of which imply temporary traits and features for this life. Endow in the dictionary means; "To equip or supply with a talent or quality".

I know that my male Savior was able to personally understand the suffering I went through during four full term pregnancies and the emotional and physical pain of losing two pregnancies. How could that be possible unless the traits and uniqueness that we experience here becomes less and less so as we truly learn how to love our neighbor as our self and develop the ability to have real empathy? (.... at least this is the argument I have for my husband to stop watching MMA and get in touch with his feminine side.)

[annewandering]

I watch a lot of HGTV where they have quite a few female carpenters who do wonderful work. As a female working in that field of construction all of those years, do you feel you were respected for the work you did or do you feel that they didn't think you could do as good of a job?

I like that they have some good lady construction workers on hgtv. I like the lady that works for Holmes.

[Guest]

Actually, I believe, WE would rise up to fill the need if it becomes a need. Its pointless for him to do it alone because we would go extinct if it was not WE. I have never seen many of these instinctive psychological differences unless you mean cultural differences. Anatess, you are a prime example of it not being genetic by sex.

WE as a species yes. Him as a member of the species specifically.

I don't mean cultural differences. I mean PSYCHOLOGICAL differences that go with the physical differences between male and female. The female chromosome triggers psychological feminine traits that are conducive to birthing and raising young. The male testosterone triggers its own psychological traits conducive to the male role in species propagation.

The fact of the matter is that - in survival mode, it only takes one man to start to build an army in one year but it requires many females. In survival mode, males cannot feed babies. These facts put a psychological instinctive mechanism that goes with the physical mechanism in both male and female that will guarantee species survival.

I may be Filipino. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm human, first and foremost.

[Guest]

From The Family:A Proclamation to the World

Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

[Seminarysnoozer]

From The Family:A Proclamation to the World

Makes one wonder what the eternal purpose of gender is for those who won't be married or involved in procreation, Telestial and Terrestrial beings. I think this speaks of a gender difference that is more than sexual and yet still needed and serves a purpose. This is comforting to me. What exactly that purpose (more than identity as that is stated separately) is though, for those people, is curious.

[annewandering]

WE as a species yes. Him as a member of the species specifically.

I don't mean cultural differences. I mean PSYCHOLOGICAL differences that go with the physical differences between male and female. The female chromosome triggers psychological feminine traits that are conducive to birthing and raising young. The male testosterone triggers its own psychological traits conducive to the male role in species propagation.

The fact of the matter is that - in survival mode, it only takes one man to start to build an army in one year but it requires many females. In survival mode, males cannot feed babies. These facts put a psychological instinctive mechanism that goes with the physical mechanism in both male and female that will guarantee species survival.

I may be Filipino. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm human, first and foremost.

Considering there is plenty of debate on what is born in and what is culturally taught no way I can disagree. Or agree.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Considering there is plenty of debate on what is born in and what is culturally taught no way I can disagree. Or agree.

Yeah, really. Add to that the other factor of what is brought into the equation from the spiritual nature of the person. We know that the spiritual nature of a person doesn't match the body traits, for example, in a person born with Down's etc. I think that applies to all of us in some amount, probably more than we realize. So, we can't even separate what is an earthly trait from an eternal one.