How can I know if it is really over with my wife's new "friend"?

[Rimmer]

I knew something was wrong. You get that feeling, right? I happened to see my wife's phone on the table. I picked it up and looked at the texts and facebook. Wow. Some very strong talk with another man that we mutually know. They've kissed. I do believe her that they didn't do more. It was hard at first, of course. Also texts and fb to a friend about leaving me.

She was still talking to him on the phone after I found out. Maybe texting too, but she erased all of that. I was freaking out, hurt and angry.

We talked to our Bishop. He didn't really scold her or anything, which was ok. She seemed to think she got off too easy though. I don't know.

We have been talking. She is fairly cold to me. She has had time to prepare for this, while I am still in shock. I have been very sad and when she's around I just want to be near her for fear that it will be the last time. I think now I am being too needy and smothering her. She has said she's not used to it and sometimes seems mad about it. Like if I offer to do something I would not have offered before. But I have seen her points about how I've treated her up until now. It isn't real good. Some of the things I think are misunderstandings that have gone on forever. Others I admit to being the cause. I don't think that she has admitted that she is the cause of some things that I would "blame" her for. Of course, that is one of the problems. I don't see the same things she does about me blaming everything on her. She says it is all me.

We have committed to praying about it and finding the answer about our situation from our Heavenly Father. We pray together at night, but she is reluctant to pray with me. The Bishop also suggested that I give her a blessing of comfort. She has refused this, too. Tonight she did pray with me. She prayed about things that really only had me at fault. That hurt.

Over the years I have been verbally abusive. Sometimes I don't realize that she takes some things bad. I don't mean them maliciously. But I think she takes them that way.

I am at fault for being mean sometimes. But not always. And not most of the time in my opinion. Having written that, I see how I could be deluding myself. Not wanting to admit another one of my downfalls.

Today, we were in the community and saw him with his family some ways away. She denies it, But I could have gotten a clear photo of her even with an OLD camera that takes forever to use. A long time staring.

I was away for work for a while, weeks. She, with the support of a friend decided that I am no good for her. I came back expecting her and the kids to be excited to see me. That day, we went over to this other man's home. This was before the kiss, but after a little flirtation. I even went with this man to give a blessing! All the while, they are flirting more and getting closer to each other. I wasn't even back 12 hours and she was already gone.

I do have faults. I need help with my jealousy and insecurity. I am willing to get it. Why wasn't I before? I don't know. Scared, selfish. I think I see some of my faults. I need help to get over them and to see the others. She agrees.

I don't know how to trust anymore. I think I never really did. I am selfish and insecure. I think those do not build a trusting person.

I know she isn't giving me the whole story. It started out as being a "one or two week" thing she said. Reading the texts and facebook messages, I know it was more like seven weeks. The whole time that I have been home. She had upped it to like four after the first time I saw some things. Now I know the truth.

She says we should just forget all the troubles that either of us had and start fresh with a new change of attitude. Ok. But how do we not repeat the same mistakes if we don't know them?

How do I trust her? She definitely still has some feelings for this man.

I am lost.

I tried to do the first Love Dare today and held on for a long time until the repeated staring after this man today. I couldn't keep it in and said some negative things. I was doing so well until then.

Help me?

[Rimmer]

I see a few people reading this... anyone have any comments?

[NeuroTypical]

Do you have children?

[Rimmer]

5 kids

[Rimmer]

he has a lot too

[james12]

Here is one thought I have after reading your post.

Trust

Once trust is violated it needs to be earned back. She has violated your trust recently and so it is only understandable that you don't trust her right now. She needs to earn your trust back by consistently honoring the commitment you both made to each other. I think there may be a few things that can help this along like honest communication and evidence, even in small instances, that she is committed. But even once she is willing to do these things it will still just take time.

Just for clarification...

Forgiveness is not the same as trust. I may forgive someone but that does not mean I trust them. It does mean I let the Lord deal with justice.

Love is also different than trust. I remember a story I heard about a mission president at a zone conference, he wrote up on the black board one word, "TRUST". He told the missionaries, "In our relationship to Heavenly Father it is better to be trusted than loved" and I agree. Our relationships here are the same way.

[Rimmer]

It is very hard to trust. I still think they talk. Like the other night she went to the neighbor's house for a long time. I know she used their phone when I found hers and didn't give it back right away. When she was there she left her phone here too. I am not trusting now. I think I should have looked at her phone then. I did last night and saw even more. Dating back to the day I got home. It wasn't much then I think, but it advanced very fast into them saying "I love you" to each other. Within two weeks or so of me getting home. She denies it, of course. Also in the messages were things like "I liked our power hour." I don't know. She still says they didn't have sex and didn't even see each other that often.

[Rimmer]

Also, to be very clear, I am very insecure with myself and selfish. Knowing that, knowing me, I know that ruins the trust. I had a pornography problem from even before we were married. One year after General Conference, I admitted it to my wife and we went to our Bishop. I have slipped up a half dozen times or so over the maybe 3 years. Twice while I was away. I know this hurt our family. I am ashamed that I had this problem. I pray everyday to stay away, and with God's help I am doing much better than the countless years I used it.

Because I have been unable to trust myself, how do I trust another?

Because I have guilt and low self esteem, it is hard for me to see any good in myself. I know that I need counseling and plan to find a good counselor for myself, and if she will, for us. I have read some of the posts on here recommending different counselors for each. I will take that advice I think.

She is at church now. I hope. I really don't know. I am not yet comfortable going and seeing him there. I hope she is there and not pining over him more.

I know I need the help and am willing to get it. Why did it take ten or more years for me to accept that? So many years of bad communication built this up. Can it be unraveled? Does she even want to really?

[NeuroTypical]

Ordinarily, I'd advise the spouse being cheated on, to get a lawyer in order to help him/her keep custody. But your admission of verbal abuse sort of messes up that advice. Are you also verbally abusive to the kids? Are you too insecure and selfish to put what's best for them ahead of your own wants and needs?

I mean, it doesn't excuse her adultury or anything, but it sort of explains it.

I don't know if your marriage can be saved or not. I do know that because of the kids, you dang well sure ought to try to save it. And I also know that you can't change her, you can only change you. So that's all I can offer by way of advice. You work on you. You go to counseling to help fix you. Change your behavior so verbal abuse isn't something associated with you.

I'm guessing that you'll have to be setting aside trusting her for now I think. It's not an "I can't trust her" thing, it's an "I've done my part to almost destroy my marriage and my wife will probably find a way out unless I can win her back" thing.

Thanks for the honesty about yourself - sometimes that's a very rare thing in folks in your situation. It speaks positively to your character.

[Rimmer]

I wish I had more strength for this. I know I need help but have been saying no to her pleading for years.

Yes, I do yell at the kids. I have trouble when they totally ignore me when I ask for something from them. I yell then. It is a huge problem, I know. I have a pile of problems. I think I will be paying someone for a while!

[craftqueen1000]

I don't know what to say, Hope you stay close to the Lord he will give you the strength you need.

Don't beat yourself up to much I shout at my kids we all do does not mean you are bad.

get help for yourself may the Lord bless you

[kimzirker]

I think it's silly to blame yourself. She cheated. We all have faults and that's just a part of life. You mean your wife is wonderfully perfect in everyway except for the fact that she cheated? Ridiculous. She made her own choices and you are not to blame for those choices. I'm going through a slightly similar situation myself right now. You're not going to trust her. Not for a long time-if ever. But don't let that control your life. She is responsible for her own actions. No amount of hanging around and checking up on her will keep her from repeating if that's what she chooses to do. I see where you are coming from though. I have the same feelings and tendencies. I want to get back to normal ASAP. But it just doesn't happen that way no matter how much we try to control the situation. The only thing to do is work on you. And you alone. Change your bad habits and bad choices and pray for her in your private prayers. Keep praying together and reading the scriptures together. Do nice things for her. Then allow her the agency to make her own choices and live with the consequences of those choices. I'm struggling with that last one right now. You won't be able to love her enough to make her change. It has to be her choice. Stay strong and good luck to you.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I was in the dog house for a while myself. Guess what - it's just difficult. You have to make deposits back in the relationship, and do it for as long as it takes your spouse to come around again. Stop the angry outbursts, stop the selfishness, find out her emotional needs and meet them. Go to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and learn the guys theory of happy marriages and apply it.

That's what I did to bring my wife out of withdrawal in our marriage. It may well seem VERY one-sided as in my case, my wife had behavior too that sapped my love, and I had to keep meeting her needs over and over again for about three months before she came around while she continued with her own problematic behavior.

I kept kicking myself I was in that mess during that doghouse period -- all because I was overdoing it at work and made no time for her for about 7 months (a good reason for a spouse to feel neglected, by the way, I"m not excusing myself).

One thing I like about your story is that you are honest about your failings and taking responsibility. Keep making those deposits in ways that aren't needy.

Consider marriage counseling, and if she refuses, even personal counseling to help you through the doghouse period.

I feel for you because I've been there....

[Rimmer]

I am certainly going to personal counseling. We just got back from a talk with the Bishop. The "friend" had called him sometimebefore we went and said that my wife had STILL talked to him, via our kids facebook account. It is sad. I feel bad for her because now, she seemed very angry at HIM! She went to a friends with our kids while I pack for her brother's house. I actually feel a little bad for her. I did say the rude comment of, "Not so perfect after all, is he?" Sad for me too, she was more broken from that then from us. Or at least she seemed to be.

I hope she is going to the place she says with all our kids. She told the Bishop that I am smothering her and creeping her out. I am, because I am afraid. Because I am selfish.

Thank you to those who are trying to tell me to not be so hard on myself. I really think I am being soft. I have been a controlling man. For over 18 years.

I went away to work for two months and she had the relief of stress with me gone. She was able to look at our kids and herself and see that I was being controlling, selfish, insecure, unfaithful (with pornography only, not with any other woman), mean, condescending, and so many other traits that tie into those.

I still kind of believe that there was no sex, but I will never really know. I think she would forever keep it hidden because of my abuse. I have grabbed her and pushed her and the kids over the years. So much for being honest in the earlier posts. I have spanked them. When I had her phone and left, she was blocking the door and I grabbed her then and shoved her out of the way.

We have told this to our Bishop. I am out of the house. I AM going to LDS Family Services tomorrow to get help on ME. I am committed to get the help I need. If for no other reason but when/if we do get divorced, I won't be one of the dads that the kids are afraid to visit. I will not be that kind of dad. I will work on myself for the rest of my life.

I really think that I want her to continue being my wife. Ironically, she bought me The Love Dare sometime around when Fireproof came out. She didn't turn to this book when she had trouble, but she did hand it to me a couple days ago. And, funny this, HIS wife was telling her to stay with me weeks ago and even gave her some Dr Laura books to help!

Crazy is the world we live in.

[Rimmer]

Watching Fireproof right now, wishing she would have either given me the book she had bought or read it herself before falling in love with this man. Breaks my heart.

[Guest]

There is no excuse for her cheating. Period. But it sounds like change needed to happen years ago, before you decided it was okay to lay hands on a woman and the children you had together. I'm glad you're seeing now that change is necessary. Good luck to you.

[Rimmer]

Just talked to her. The people she went to see tonight told her they know. One of my wife's good friends talked to the other man's wife saying she had called Child Protective Services. It is not at all like I beat my kids. But now, through all this, I might lose my kids too?!

All I can do is fix me. I know this.

My wife said that no one is going to come out a winner in this. I wholeheartedly disagree.

I WILL BE A WINNER BECAUSE, WITH GOD'S HELP, I AM FIXING ME!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Rimmer

[shine7]

Rimmer, this can most likely be fixed. It will not be easy.

Your pornography choice must be stopped if not already done so: it does tend to make a person mean/meaner, and can drive the spouse into the arms of someone willing to 'love' them.

My husband and I, mostly because of God's help, fixed our 'all but ruined' marriage. I will just tell you a bit about our journey, and hope some of it helps you and your wife. And I want to say how so very worth the struggles it is. Also, we did truly love each other.....that helped too, somehow we hadn't torn that love to complete shreds.

First of all: both of us decided we would not give up on each other.....oh believe me, that was a hard decision.

YOU have now seen/admitted many of your problems, and now it is your wife's turn to choose to give this a chance if that is healthy for her/kids.

My Bishop knew what had gone on between my husband and me, and did not want me to agree to give our marriage a chance as he was very concerned for the way I had been treated. But I chose that if my husband was willing, I would go to counseling and give it a try. Our church counselor was amazing: he put my husband into individual counseling for post tramatic syndrome which was causing him a lot of hidden stress/anger. The counselor then told me he would work with me but only if I would give up my pent up anger: he said he could not help me if I let myself stay so angry.

Then he also counseled both of us together.

At home, we committed to consistent personal scriptures/prayer, couple scriptures/prayer, family scriptures/prayer, FHE, attending church regularly, fasting.....you know, all the things we are asked to do. IT WAS HARD. When one of us was upset, it took over 15 minutes on our knees just for us to be able to have couples prayer together....but we were committed to God, so we kept up what He asked of us.....not for each other at that point, but because we both loved God.....still it eventually helped us soften 'together'.

Also, the counselor my husband went to, taught him to take 10 minutes to calm down if we were getting too upset with each other......and he came home and shared that idea with me......so we started saying: "I need 10 minutes time before we talk about this" and the one asking for the time would leave the room......this was also agreed upon ahead of time. This was a huge help for both of us.

Our counselor taught us to not interupt when the other spouse was expressing a concern/feelings.....we had to practise this method with our counselor......it was not easy for either one of us, but as we got more patient with truly listening to the other person, it started helping us understand what the other spouse was feeling. We also had to learn the 'parroting' method you most likely know about......this was amazing!! It helped us gently explain when the other hadn't understood the message being conveyed.

After almost 2 years, things started to turn around little by little. We built back our trust and built back good feelings for each other......mostly through prayer individually and together. We quit trying to change each other, and focused on changing ourself only. Miracles happened. We started to become best friends, sharing our feelings and we could talk for hours. My husband became the light of my life.....my hero. He truly cared about what bothered me. He became the man I dreamed of being married to. My husband started saying every day: "have I told you yet today that I love you?"

Unbeknownst to us, after several months of doing sooo much better and feeling close once again: my husband died suddenly one day out of the blue. How can we ever thank God enough for helping us so when that awful day happened, we had love to cherish between us? Thank you Heavenly Father for saving our marriage so it can go into the eternities.

Edited September 19, 2011 by shine7

[Rimmer]

At home, we committed to continue personal scriptures/prayer, couple scriptures/prayer, family scriptures/prayer, FHE, attending church regularly, fasting.....you know, all the things we are asked to do.

That is part of our trouble. We go to church, we fulfill our callings, but scripture study, family/personal/couples prayer, FHE, those we have never been good at. We've been lazy. We let the trappings of the world get us and we haven't ever been good at the "basics."

That was one thing we said we'd do when I first got home. But after each of our separate disappointments, this again went by the wayside.

[Rimmer]

shine7, I am glad to hear you were able to get things going right before he passed.

[shine7]

Me too, Rimmer.

Seek the miracles for you, and your wife too if that will work.

It is worth every pain/hardship you will both go through. If

you both are willing to do the things God asks, He can turn this

around for both of you.

One thing here: I'm not sure if you both have decided it's just over

or not as I have read over the posts?

[Rimmer]

At this point I have grave doubts as to whether she can return to me. I don't believe she will stop communication with this man anytime soon. Not until it explodes on her. I think she has a huge amount of love for him. I think she does not want to commit anything to me until he is either hers, or proves to stay with his wife.

At this point I just know I need to work on me for me. I will face the marriage after I start facing me.

[shine7]

Thank you for clarifying that.

Good on you, Rimmer, for being willing to work on your problems/challenges. You have my prayers for your success. Live God's plan: it works. It seems so simple: prayers/scriptures? FHE? church? etc. Yet in that plan, God works His mighty miracles.

[Rimmer]

One thing here: I'm not sure if you both have decided it's just over

or not as I have read over the posts?

I know before whenever I told her it was over, and both of us did often, it was my way of controlling her. Of testing her. I think at some point we were testing each other at the same time. Now it has just escalated. Her brother, my best friend for more years than we've been married, had a divorce based on seeing who is going to take it further. I don't want to be that kind of little man anymore. I want my marriage to survive. I am trying to build up something to help the hurt because I have feelings that it isn't going to end well.

I love this woman dearly. Right now though, I am finding it doesn't matter if she stays or goes if I don't fix me. I want very much to stay married to her. It hurts tremendously.

[shine7]

My husband used to tell me often he was going to divorce me....yes, the control thing. It drove a huge wedge into my heart that was hard to forgive and was part of my anger (feeling helpless made me angry)

Your tremendous hurt is understandable, Rimmer. So glad you are seeking the help you desire. Never give up, never give in. Just keep taking your problems and weaknesses to Christ and place them in His mighty Hands. Watch as they melt away as He holds them (this was a 'vision' I was given long ago).....it truly helps.