How can I know if it is really over with my wife's new "friend"?

[Rimmer]

Just keep taking your problems and weaknesses to Christ and place them in His mighty Hands. Watch as they melt away as He holds them (this was a 'vision' I was given long ago).....it truly helps.

I think that is the best scene I could ever picture! Thank you for that. I can't see past the waterworks.

[Gwen]

You need to get a lawyer. The man she is cheating with, his wife called child protect? Why? Not sure I follow the logic there. Did she call on you and your wife? Is she trying to get at your wife and you are in the cross fire or is it directed at you?

I am in now way condoning verbal abuse. I know personally the damage it can do. However, find me a parent who has never had an inappropriate outburst at their child. We all make mistakes and say things we shouldn't. The question is what do you do about it. What have you said to your children? If you call them worthless, threatening to hurt them or just yell "I told you to turn off the tv and help set the table" type stuff. Not that I'm saying one is ok and the other is not but they are different. I have never known anyone to lose their kids over yelling at them when they won't pick up.

You need a lawyer if child services is really involved. 2 things, one you need personal protection but the other is if the claims are found to be false (no serious abuse that calls for child services intervention) when you are in the process of divorce can cause the accusing parent to lose rights. My point is given the who filed the report could strengthen your case for custody in spite of your shortcomings.

Another thought. Why do your kids ignore you? Children are a reflection of their parents. If you ignore each other the kids will ignore you. You make it ok to treat each other that way. You may be a better father on your own. When you have kids you need to do all you can to work things out but you have to balance that with what is best for the kids. The proclamation on the family says that children have a right to be raised by 2 parents, in a loving home. (Obviously not an exact quote) You don't have a loving home. Which of the 2 commandments is most important. 2 parents who are married or a loving home that sets a good example for them? If she is using the kids fb accounts to chat with him then the kids know about the affair. Don't think your kids are that clueless.

I don't know the details of your situation and don't know what is best for you. But you need to sit down and seriously consider some things and the long term consequences of them.

[yodabrooke]

Its going to take time, I've been through somthing like this Its going to take a wile for you to trust her and she needs to understand that. She needs to be willing to deal with you asking questions for your own trust.. But you also have to learn to trust if she is where she says she is and no contact is made then you need to get better and be willing to trust again... I went through this, I set up an on line account and checked his phone for text or calls from the # I knew was her. I could see how many they had in the past which was alot. and then if there were any then. I did see a few coming from her phone but no going out or one or two. I found out when he broke it off she tried to get a hold of him but he just kept telling her to leave him alone. which was verified by all the ones she was sending to him and none going out. That made me feel a little better then till there were none at all. I did this with out my husbands knowledge because I had to know if i was being told the truth. I did tell him after and had to let him know because that wasn't very honest either, but it did make me feel better. When i told him i could tell he didn't like it, but he could see how much it helped me through it. It took me along time to really not let my mind go crazy if he went to the store or whatever..

You just have to be willing to let her earn the trust and she has to be willing to let you get what you need to trust her. hope this help I know its hard!

[edit] I used the att website, also i think you should try to save it before giving up so you can tell your kids you did all that you knew how to do to save your relationsip when their older.

Edited September 19, 2011 by yodabrooke

[JudoMinja]

From the sound of things, you need to get some clarity. It can be very hard to see everything clearly when it is all so tied up in emotional turmoil. Everything gets connected, tangled, tied together, and warped out of proportion. So, let's try to separate these issues:

1. Take care of yourself legally. Are you facing divorce, yes or no? Get a lawyer. Clarify exactly what you have and have not done to and for your children. Every parent deserves to see their children, but it also needs to be in the child's best interest. Is there going to be a custody battle? What is best for those kids? Even if you are not facing divorce, if CPS is involved you will need to be able to defend your stability and health as a parent.

2. Your wife's choices are her responsibility, not yours. From the sound of things, she does not want to admit that her adulterous relationship is wrong. She is willing to break up both her family and his family just to be with him. She got angry when he told the bishop she was still having contact with him? Sounds like she's not looking to make the right decisions. She's just looking for an escape and is clinging to him as that option no matter what the consequences will be. She will have to bear the responsibility of that choice. While you may come to an understanding of how your behavior influenced her, it was still her decision to make and you are not responsible for her adultery.

3. You definitely need to get help about your own issues, which it sounds like you are doing. I don't know if your marriage is salvagable, but if you want it to be then you can only do your part to work on it. The rest will be up to your wife. While her adulterous behavior is wrong, her desire to "escape" is not, considering the information you've provided. She may very well have hit a breaking point, and for her there may be no turning back. If she has decided it is over, it is over, and nothing you do will fix that. BUT, working on yourself is the only way you possibly could win her back if there is still something in her that wants to work on it, AND working on yourself will prepare you for other options should she decide that divorce is what she wants.

It is important that you take the time to step back and prioritize what is going on here-

Most important is your children. Figure out what is best for them and do whatever it takes to make sure that happens.

Second is recognizing what is and is not your responsibility. You need to be able to let go of the things that are in your wife's hands. She is making some very hurtful and irresponsible decisions right now, but she is the one in control of those decisions. Not you. You can only work on yourself.

Third is just that- working on yourself. Whether or not your marriage is salvagable, this is going to be important for yourself, your children, and her. You can become a better person. You can change. You sound like you have the desire, and you are being honest with yourself about your failings. God will work with you on that. It will take time. It will take a lot of patience, perseverence, and introspection, but it can be done.

Finally, your marriage. This is a two person thing- it is going to require working with your wife and understanding what she wants. You need to prepare yourself for either possibility- a stronger marriage with your current wife, or divorce. With the help of a good counselor, I suggest that you carefully weigh the health of both options, and then do what you can.

[Guest]

I hope you can both quickly get to a point where you're not thinking about who is winning and who is losing, but how to get the kids through whatever is ahead with the least damage possible. They are the innocent victims.

[Rimmer]

Its going to take a wile for you to trust her and she needs to understand that. She needs to be willing to deal with you asking questions for your own trust.

You just have to be willing to let her earn the trust and she has to be willing to let you get what you need to trust her. hope this help I know its hard!

She is fed up with me asking all the time. I did look at her pc before we went to the Bishop last time. She and he had set up new facebook accounts and had communicated then. First him on her real page, just messages. I saw that on her phone. On the pc was her new identity. She definitely didn't say anything about this other "person" to me or the Bishop.

She is done with me.

[Rimmer]

I don't know if your marriage is salvagable, but if you want it to be then you can only do your part to work on it. The rest will be up to your wife. While her adulterous behavior is wrong, her desire to "escape" is not, considering the information you've provided. She may very well have hit a breaking point, and for her there may be no turning back. If she has decided it is over, it is over, and nothing you do will fix that.

I think I drove her there today. I told her I knew of her other identity. I ruined everything now. I don't know if she was making it for me or that was all that was there, but she was making my favorite dinner. She told me to leave. To try to sort things out, and my fears, I had my phone recording our discussion. She saw that and it was bad. I don't know why I did that. Very stupid.

I had even started tearing up when I realized what I was helping her make. I felt it would be the last time.

Idiot. She was even telling the kids to come in for FHE. After they went to bed was when I would leave to her brothers house. I ruined that pretty fast.

I am just grasping at straws.

There is nothing left from her but anger. Again, my fears pushed her further away.

[Rimmer]

You need to prepare yourself for either possibility- a stronger marriage with your current wife, or divorce. With the help of a good counselor, I suggest that you carefully weigh the health of both options, and then do what you can.

I'm pretty sure I just nailed the coffin shut with what I did.

[Rimmer]

I am wondering why the Bishop didn't offer me a blessing. I was going to ask, but then got sidetracked. The first time we talked he said to give my wife one. She refused.

I know that I just need to move on. I don't know if I can. The day after I found out, I really wanted to commit suicide. I found some Air Duster for cleaning keyboards or whatever. When I was a teen somebody tried that and got high.

So I found ours and inhaled like crazy. I really wanted to end it. It is so hard to see beyond this situation. I just want the easy way out. I am wavering on whether I can fix me after tonight.

We would have been married 15 years this year. I don't believe we'll make it. We both would tell each other, "No matter what." I guess that was just talk. She doesn't believe in me. She doesn't think I can change. This woman who I have been with for 19 years, has lost all faith in me. For a long time now, I realize. There have been many things that I would tell her to just have faith about. Every last thing that I told her to have faith about, turned out good. She never believed me. She still does not. especially after tonight.

She has been preparing for this for a long time. I was blind. I chose to be blind to all the things she said. But I have not had time to assimilate what is happening. I feel like I didn't get a fair chance. That is dumb right after saying though. I did have time. I guess I just never believed it would happen. I see that right now as the reason, or a main reason, why I have been so controlling. Duh!

Because if I kept her feeling bad about herself, she wouldn't think that anyone would want her. Man, she did just even tell me that, though I didn't really hear it until now. She told me that she was afraid to leave because, "Why would anyone want me?" I see another major problem I have. Eureka! I know that might sound silly. I found another thing she was right about. I am a jerk. I have kept her down all these years out of selfishness and insecurity. She has been fighting a losing battle with me. I wish I had so many years back to make things right. I don't think she will wait for me to get help since she doesn't believe I will stick it out.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Rimmer

[JudoMinja]

Since she is not looking for advice for herself, we can't give her any. We can only give advice to you. I feel, right now, that probably the most important thing for you to hear is that there is still hope! Do not give up on yourself, on your life! You CAN get through this.

I can tell you right now that I have been in your wife's shoes. I can completely understand if she feels like there is no turning back. However, there is a BIG difference between if she thinks the marriage is unsaveable and if YOU are unsaveable. If she is dead-set that she doesn't want to be with you anymore, it is because she feels that a relationship between herself and you is impossible. It is not a judgement of YOU, but of your marriage. If you cannot mentally and emotionally make that distinction, you will not be able to overcome the feelings of depression.

I too hit a breaking point with my ex. I had been living in a state of fear our entire marriage. He was far more physically abusive than what you've described, but reading what you admitted to brings back memories as he has done some of the same things. I always felt like I was walking on egg-shells, trying to prevent the next outburst but knowing that I simply could not avoid it. Eventually, I realized that change was never going to happen while I stayed in that relationship. I did not feel safe, did not feel like our child was safe, and something inside me broke. I sought an escape. Unlike your wife, I did not seek out another man. I just left. It broke my ex to pieces, and it was very hard for me to resist going back and trying to help him put himself together, but I was incapable of helping him while maintaining my own safety.

I tell you this to try and give you a little perspective. I want you to know that I have never given up on my ex and I still hold out that he will make the changes in his life that will bring him happiness. I could have had him cut off from his child entirely because of what he'd done, but I had it stipulated in our divorce that should he get a psychological evaluation and go through anger management classes, he could be granted supervised visitation with the possibility of earning unsupervised visitation should he handle that well. I will never go back to him. I will never give our relationship another try. That part of my life is over. While I have forgiven him, I could never again feel safe around him. But if he does his part to prove that he can safely be around his son, I will allow that- because I know that he has it in him to change and become better- should he decide to make those changes.

Just from what you've posted here, I can see a big difference between you and my own ex-husband. You recognize what you've done wrong and want to improve, and are already actively seeking help. This is a good sign, that your experience has humbled you and readied you for a good and righteous change. As I said at the start of this post- there IS hope for you. Do not give up.

Remember, to take care of your legal matters so you don't lose your children and that everything is done in their best interests. And make sure you see a counselor. Please, please, please see a counselor. I had some pretty severe suicidal thoughts when I first left my husband, and I know that the only reason I truged on was for the sake of my child who needed me to look after him. You can overcome. You can heal. You CAN get through this.

Don't give up. There is hope.

[Windseeker]

Hey Rimmer,

I’ve been reading your posts and recalling how I went thru the exact same thing. I just want you to know you’re not alone. Others have walked down this path. When I was in your shoes I did resolve to kill myself. Kill everything about myself that caused this. Kill the part of myself that was hurting, and had hurt, everyone I loved. These lyrics are harsh but they gave me comfort for some reason when I was in the depths of despair.

I wanted perfection from every song Ive ever sung

But that was wrong

And I wanted something from every person Ive ever loved

But that was wrong

And Ive changed, Ive changed

Ive reconsidered everything

Im fine now, Im fine now

I laid the barrel in my mouth

And everything I thought before

I wont think anymore

Ive changed, Ive changed, Ive changed

I wanted to be the greatest at everything

But I can't be

And I wanted to be exempt from temptation

But I can't be

And I wanted your love to be ever lasting

But it isnt

I wanted life to be an easier proposition

But it isnt

I don’t know where I’d be without the gospel. We are so lucky.

This gospel is all about the hope we have to change.

The mirror is before you now, as painful as it is be grateful you have it here in this life rather then the next. Now is the time to fall on your knees and LIVE. Be the best person you know how and do everything you can to bless the lives of those around you. The pain will pass and you will see the opportunities to make it right to your kids, your exwife, and yourself. Your Heavenly Father loves you. Breath Deep and know that "The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?"

Edited September 20, 2011 by Windseeker

[Rimmer]

I ate a little for the first time since Saturday. I think that made me queezy.

She asked me last week to go to a parenting class with her. I didn't. She asked again, after I started staying at her brothers but before I messed things up. Of course after botching things yesterday, she didn't call me to go with her. I went myself and met her there. She didn't seem too happy, but did sit by me when I asked her. I was very full though, so it was either me or squeeze in by some strangers.

She was pleasant. She left right after to pick one of our children from school.

I've calmed down a little. I am ready to give her some space. She's going to take it whether I'm ready or not. But I did just want to let her be after the class. I went in to my office and was working when she texted me and asked if I wanted something from the store. I was very surprised. I didn't have time to go with her. My car needs work so I am using her brother's while he's at work. I did ask if I could go by the house to get more clothes. She was mad and told me I was supposed to get them yesterday. She scoffed when I said that I was a little distraught then. I had a meeting close to her brother's work and dropped his car off to him and walked to my appointment. I didn't know if I had a ride home.

I was very surprised that she texted me to ask if I had a ride. I am so very confused.

She tells me it is completely over. With me and with him. Then why is she being so nice? It just makes it harder. Maybe. I am very looking forward to my first counseling evaluation/session tomorrow. I am so ready to get started. I will make the right changes for my own life. I hope and pray she will start coming with me to couples counseling when she sees that I am on the right track.

[Rimmer]

I see guests reading. Whether it was good or not, I invited my wife to read this. Told her my avatar. I wonder if she ever will.

[Rimmer]

Since she is not looking for advice for herself, we can't give her any.

I think that is why I invited her to read my posting.

I always felt like I was walking on egg-shells, trying to prevent the next outburst but knowing that I simply could not avoid it.

I know over the years she has said that exact thing. Many times. I was never able to admit to my failings and acknowledge or try to change it.

Unlike your wife, I did not seek out another man. I just left.

I don't believe she was seeking anyone out. In my prying and snooping I did find the earlier messages about me. I saw that she was originally really trying to get help to stay with me. I think he is having a troubled marriage too and saw and exploited the situation. She's not blameless, just in fairness, I don't think it was intended. This man just listened and showed her the attention I was not giving. I am having a hard time believing she isn't still hung up on him. She told me yesterday they had talked again. And that stare. That long, long stare.

Funny, not haha funny, but when I got home she was always listening to One eskimO's song Kandi.

One part of the song is "Why? Why? Why did you need him? Where was I? Just how close to you is he? Every smile you gave, every touch you made, every word you said. And it hurts beyond hurt. It was a love that blinds, and a love that stings..."

It seems so fitting for our situation.

My new favorite wallowing song is by Mumford and Sons, The Cave

"It's empty in the valley of your heart

The sun, it rises slowly as you walk

Away from all the fears

And all the faults you've left behind

The harvest left no food for you to eat

You cannibal, you meat-eater, you see

But I have seen the same

I know the shame in your defeat

But I will hold on hope

And I won't let you choke

On the noose around your neck

And I'll find strength in pain

And I will change my ways

I'll know my name as it's called again

Cause I have other things to fill my time

You take what is yours and I'll take mine

Now let me at the truth

Which will refresh my broken mind

So tie me to a post and block my ears

I can see widows and orphans through my tears

I know my call despite my faults

And despite my growing fears

But I will hold on hope

And I won't let you choke

On the noose around your neck

And I'll find strength in pain

And I will change my ways

I'll know my name as it's called again

So come out of your cave walking on your hands

And see the world hanging upside down

You can understand dependence

When you know the maker's hand

So make your siren's call

And sing all you want

I will not hear what you have to say

Cause I need freedom now

And I need to know how

To live my life as it's meant to be

And I will hold on hope

And I won't let you choke

On the noose around your neck

And I'll find strength in pain

And I will change my ways

I'll know my name as it's called again"

I hear this and feel so empowered. I will hold on hope. I'll find strength in pain. I will change my ways. I'll know my name as it's called again!

I will change for the best and I will know my name when I am called to return to live with Him!

I do want to be with her. But whether that happens or not I have made it past my despair. I, with the help of prayer and Heavenly Father's mighty hand, know that I will become the great man that I can become. I will be my kids' dad. I will show them the unconditional love they deserve and need from me.

Thank you all for posting. You have helped me greatly. I will continue to sound off what I am going through, so please keep posting your great thoughts and insights. I think through just this forum and all the input I've received, that I have already begun to change. It makes me all the more excited to start full on counseling. How many dark years I can now put behind me! The relief of this weight brings me to free flowing tears of joy!

[JudoMinja]

I think confusion is just bound to be part of the "game" right now. It's going to take some time to sort through emotions and figure out just where you stand with each other. Many couples do their best to maintain a cordial relationship with one another after break-ups, usually for the sake of the kids. Some manage it just fine, while it can be very difficult for others.

She is likely still sorting through her own emotions too. While she did technically have time to "prepare" for this, as it was her decision, it is still going to be hard for her. There is something in you that she loves or she never would have married you, and if she sticks to her guns on the decision to separate, she is going to be going through some heartbreak. So, understand, that she is likely confused too. She has her own emotional turmoil to deal with. If my experience is anything to go off, I don't think she has a problem with you per se. She just could not stand living in that unhealthy environment of constant tension any more.

I believe that you are both good people, just as I believe that my ex has a good heart, and that both my brother and his ex (recently divorced due to abuse and adultery on both ends) are good people. Being good people doesn't mean things will always work out though. Your relationship was very unhealthy, and you caused each other a lot of pain. Whether or not you end up back together- it is best that you maintain distance until you are both emotionally healthy.

I want to share with you a good example to help bolster your feeling of hope. My mother was raised in an abusive home and resolved that she would not have the same kind of relationship when she married. When I was very little, my father slapped me and left a mark on my face. My mother immediately kicked him out. If she hadn't, CPS would have taken me away. My father had to complete anger management and parenting classes before he could come back, and he did. There has not been a problem since, and I didn't even remember this until my mother told me about it. They are very happily married and have been for 25 years now.

This situation worked out well because a limit on what behavior would and would not be tolerated was set and KEPT very early. As soon as my father crossed the line, he was out and had to work his way back in. In a healthy relationship, this is the way things should work. My parents still have occassional disagreements and had quite a few fights growing up, but as they handled their disagreements in a healthy way they became less and less extreme and farther and farther apart.

Unfortunately, there are some people who don't understand how to set limits and others who don't know how to respect them. It's not necessarily that either of these people are bad, but their deficiencies just don't work well together and you end up with a very unhealthy relationship. Many of these people never learn how to improve and change, so they stay in a bad and unhappy relationship or hop from one to another. If you want to have a healthy relationship with your wife, or someone else in the future should you two divorce, you need to learn healthy methods for handling stress, conflict, and disagreements and practice them. This is something your counselor should help you with.

You cannot change what has happened in the past, but you can learn from it. You probably have many examples from your relationship that will help you see what NOT to do, and your counselor should work with you to determine how to handle a similar situation in a better way.

[apexviper13]

"I am at fault for being mean sometimes. But not always. And not most of the time in my opinion. Having written that, I see how I could be deluding myself. Not wanting to admit another one of my downfalls."

Your sin is yours, her sin is hers. Sure, you said some things. Doesn't mean she had to cheat on you.

"I do have faults. I need help with my jealousy and insecurity."

Has nothing to do with insecurity. She cheated on you and you have a right to be upset.

"She says we should just forget all the troubles that either of us had and start fresh with a new change of attitude. Ok. But how do we not repeat the same mistakes if we don't know them?"

Don't fall for that. She got caught and she knows it. She wants to "move on", supposedly, because she doesn't want you to be upset for her cheating on you. In other words she wants to go on as if she didn't do anything.

"How do I trust her? She definitely still has some feelings for this man."

After what you have said, I wouldn't trust her. Stuff like this is why I'm against having friends of the opposite sex if someone is married. Girls think guys are the only ones with the mind-set of "Guys and girls can't be just friends." Many girls/women have that mind-set too. Tell her flat out that you want her to have absolutely nothing to do with him. No calling, texting, facebooking, talking even at church, anything. You were verbally abusive but you're willing to own up to it apparently. She just wants what she did to be justified. You're being repentant, she's not. That's the difference.

[Rimmer]

Now she just wants me out. She says she needs time to think things through. That maybe we can work things out after she thinks about things. I see it as her getting me out and then it will be that much easier to proceed with a divorce. She says she wants us to be an Eternal Family, but that I am not respecting her by leaving her for a month or more. She shows no affection and snubs any I try to give her.

I think I just need to go ahead and get the divorce now. Why should I live with that fear over my head, living by myself, hoping that things will work out? It will drive me crazy.

I don't see any other way. She says she will go to counseling with me. But I still have to move out, or she will take the kids and move out herself. I don't need this big house we're in without kids. I have no choice but to leave. I just don't know if I should just file for divorce or not...

Edited October 3, 2011 by Rimmer

[Rimmer]

Your sin is yours, her sin is hers. Sure, you said some things. Doesn't mean she had to cheat on you.

I didn't just say some things, we found a "Love Letter" from over 18 years ago with me apologizing about being jealous and possessive. I have been doing it from the start. She just finally had enough guts to cut things off. She has been asking me for years to go with her to counseling. I have been a stubborn mule and have always said no.

After what you have said, I wouldn't trust her. Stuff like this is why I'm against having friends of the opposite sex if someone is married. Girls think guys are the only ones with the mind-set of "Guys and girls can't be just friends." Many girls/women have that mind-set too. Tell her flat out that you want her to have absolutely nothing to do with him. No calling, texting, facebooking, talking even at church, anything. You were verbally abusive but you're willing to own up to it apparently. She just wants what she did to be justified. You're being repentant, she's not. That's the difference.

Telling her what to do is exactly what has gotten me to where I am. I was more than verbally abusive at times. We actually fought before we were married, and we have both hit each other since-me more than her assuredly. And I'm still being controlling. I still am here and haven't left. I am afraid to let her go. I am afraid that she will be happier again without me. This man was not the original problem. He really was trying to help her to understand me and stay with me. It just got too bad for her and he was there treating her well and showing her the appreciation I would not. She did chose to do what she did. But I have chosen to be the way I have by not seeking nor accepting help.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Rimmer

[annewandering]

I just saw a great video with William O Nelson. It was not concerning marriage in particular but if you watch till around the middle it talks about a woman who decided she wanted a divorce. It is very interesting what he discussed with them.

William O. Nelson | How the Book of Mormon Invites One to Seek Christ | August 16, 1999 | BYU Broadcasting

You might be interested in it.

[JudoMinja]

Given your situation, I think separating is a good step toward improvement for both of you. Whether that separation is temporary or becomes permanant depends on what the two of you decide while you are working on getting into healthy relationship habits.

I think your fear of losing her stems from your desire for control. You see things being a certain way, the way you want, the way that will make you "happy", and you do everything you can to make it that way. Then, when something upsets your plan that is not in your control, it drives you insane with worry. It's a normal fear. Something everyone experiences. We all make plans and do everything in our power to control the outcome of those plans. When things don't go according to what we've pictured, we panic- especially when it is something completely outside our ability to control. The problem is when we let that fear drive us so far as to try and control things we have no ability or right to control- when we cannot let go of those things that are in someone ELSES control and trust that they will make good decisions.

There is only so much we can control in this world. Much of what will effect us is in the control of someone else- like your wife's decision to work things out with you or to move on is hers. That decision will have an enormous effect on you and your family, and there is nothing you can do to control it. You can contribute "input" that she will take into consideration when making her decision, but ultimately it is up to her. Not you. That can be very very scary when we don't know if the other person wants the same thing we want, and if we do not build in ourselves an ability to cope with whatever the outcome may be. If you can only be happy and satisfied with one answer, one result, you may very well find yourself disappointed.

When we "lose" control of a situation that seemed to be going well, everything seems like it is spiraling into chaos. Our whole reality is thrown out of whack. The problem though is not that the world is askew, but that our personal interpretation of it was wrong, and with the loss of perceived control the difference between "our reality" and the "real reality" becomes starkly obvious. You will only be satisfied and happy when you can let go of those things you CAN'T control and bring your reality more in alignment with the truth. How do we do that? Trust.

You need to be able to trust your wife and her ability to make a good and healthy decision. Instead of trying to control the situation and make the decision for her, you need to "return" that power of decision making that has already always been hers! Trust her ability to decide for herself, and prepare yourself for either outcome. And even if you can't bring yourself to trust her (and given her infidelity it is perfectly understandable if you had a hard time trusting her), trust in GOD.

Ultimately, God is the one with the control. And you know what? He trusted all of us enough to give us the ability to make our own decisions, to exercise our own portions of control. He knew we wouldn't always make the best decisions, but He gave us that agency anyway, so that we could exercise it, learn from our mistakes, and grow. Here is a God with the power to make all the decisions for us and the know-how to guide us down the "perfect" path, and what did he do? He gave that control to us. He let us make our own decisions and does not "save" us from the consequences. That is the ultimate example of love and trust- that no matter how badly we botch up our decisions, He lets us decide for ourselves. He shows us how to make good decisions, shows us what path will bring us the greatest happiness, but does not try to control the outcome.

If "giving up" control would have messed up God's plan, do you think He would have done it? Of course not! In fact, it is CENTRAL to His plan! What better way to draw closer to God and build Christ-like attributes than to also be willing to "give up" your control? To be content with what power you have been given and not try to force it onto anyone else? If you can bring yourself to understand this very important principle, you will find yourself in a much more peaceful state of mind- and not plagued by so much fear.

Below, I relate the great wisdom of Oogway, the Kung Fu master :

Oogway: My friend, the panda will never fulfill his destiny, nor you yours until you let go of the illusion of control.

Shifu: Illusion?

Oogway: Yes. [points at peach tree]

Oogway: Look at this tree, Shifu: I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time.

Shifu: But there are things we *can* control: I can control when the fruit will fall, I can control where to plant the seed: that is no illusion, Master!

Oogway: Ah, yes. But no matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.

Shifu: But a peach cannot defeat Tai Lung!

Oogway: Maybe it can, if you are willing to guide, to nurture it, to believe in it.

Shifu: But how? How? I need your help, master.

Oogway: No, you just need to believe. Promise me, Shifu, promise me you will believe.

(Kung Fu Panda)

There are some things you can control, but that control is limited. Instead of trying to force the outcome, you need to be able to accept what is given to you and "believe" or have faith and trust in others and in God.

[applepansy]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so somebody may have already made my suggestion:

Watch the movie Fireproof. Either alone or together.

[apexviper13]

I didn't just say some things, we found a "Love Letter" from over 18 years ago with me apologizing about being jealous and possessive. I have been doing it from the start. She just finally had enough guts to cut things off. She has been asking me for years to go with her to counseling. I have been a stubborn mule and have always said no.

Either way, that doesn't mean she should cheat on you.

Telling her what to do is exactly what has gotten me to where I am. I was more than verbally abusive at times. We actually fought before we were married, and we have both hit each other since-me more than her assuredly. And I'm still being controlling. I still am here and haven't left. I am afraid to let her go. I am afraid that she will be happier again without me. This man was not the original problem. He really was trying to help her to understand me and stay with me. It just got too bad for her and he was there treating her well and showing her the appreciation I would not. She did chose to do what she did. But I have chosen to be the way I have by not seeking nor accepting help.

If a man's wife cheats on him why wouldn't the guy tell the wife to not have anything to do with the man anymore? You're making this situation lighter than what it is. Of course he was treating her well, he was in a relationship with your wife. No, he wasn't trying to help her. Helping someone that's married doesn't mean you have a relationship with them.

[Rimmer]

I left like she asked. She contacted me to watch the kids while she works. What's with that? She stopped by my office to get something, I stupidly asked if it was over. She pretty much said yes. I knew she was just getting things separated to do this. All these years she's tried, and when I finally admit and seek help, she bails.

I don't know what to do. I thought I was broken hearted before...

[beenthere]

If I didnt know better I would think I am your wife. Same exact situation. I did cheat. He doesnt know that, but he knows about the texts and the FB. I am not proud of it. In fact I am disgusted with myself. I just thought I would share with you my feelings so that maybe you can understand hers. Not that it in any way excuses me from my horrible choices, but there is a progression that took place. It wasnt a conscious overnight decision. Basically, I went for years and years not feeling loved at all. His way of showing it wasn't even something that equalled love to me. The yelling and the anger begin to break a person. I was, and still am, convinced that I must simply be unloveable. It hurts.....terribly. You speak of her betraying your trust. What you dont see is that she has been unable to trust you for years. She has been utterly alone. The one person she is supposed to be able to depend on turns on her regularly. She sees the pattern, it hasnt changed even when she did get the courage to brave your reaction and beg you to change. You ignored her again.....If you just ignore it....it will all go away right? You can pretend its peachy. But your avoidance just proves to her that shes isnt worth it in your eyes.

Desperate she reaches out to someone, probably a few people, to help her understand. To cope. She finds someone willing to listen. Really listen. Wow. It feels nice to have someone care. An she cares too. She understands what they are going through as well and sincerely want to help each other. But as you begin sharing confidences the feelings for each other grow. Until one day you realize its love. What a conflicting emotion. It has been so long since anyone showed love for you. Yet you know its not right. But barriers break. Desire to be loved can be all consuming. I think our spirits require love as our bodies require water. Thirst is a powerful motivator.

That said, I want to clarify that I dont condone or any way blame you for her actions. She alone is responsible for those and will have her own repentance to seek. She can not be happy right now. Poor choices never bring happiness. Just for a second, try to understand how devistated she must feel as the now this one turned on her too. Is she loveable? Was she just being used? She is probably struggling with her own sense of worth and value. Not only for the things she has done but how she has been treated. She needs time to work on herself just as much as you do. Recognize, however, that both of your spirits have been literally wounded . How would you treat the other if it were a literal, bleeding, painful wound? Would you be resentful and angry? Would you baby each other? Would you intently listen to a "Dr" to help guide you in nuturing the healing process? Some wounds are deep. Some wounds are very painful. Some take a very long time to heal. But they do heal faster and leave less of a scar if they are attended to properly. There will be scars. I know that. But like the jagged one running down my knee, scars arent painful, they are simply memories. And often (my Dr told me this) the place the was injured becomes infinitely stronger.

Whatever the path your marriage takes, my hope is that both of you acheive (notice this is an action word, it takes work) healing and peace.

Wish me luck on my journey. Im in the rollercoaster right behind you.

Edited October 4, 2011 by beenthere
wasnt finished!

[Juan_P]

Dude, when I first read in the OP "She is fairly cold to me" I thought to myself "she doesn't love him anymore but loves the other guy". Then reading though most of what happened after, its clear that it was over for her long ago.

I mean even things here like: "She says she needs time to think things through" yeah, want to split up, wants you out but can't say it directly due to cowardness. do you think she would want that if she loved you?

"She says she wants us to be an Eternal Family, but that I am not respecting her by leaving her for a month or more" ....she's lying! She wants to be an eternal family with someone else! Then in saying that you don't respect her by leaving is just a way to blame the victim and/or get you out of the house so she can see the other guy whenever she want to. Remember that adultery and lies go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other.

"She shows no affection and snubs any I try to give her" ...yeah, because she doens't love you and probably is madely in love with the other guy so she never will want to be touched by you.

Look, I've been in your situation. It took me more than 2 years to come to terms with it. But once it's over like this and she no longer loves you, just forget it. The best you can do is divorce her as quickly as possible, pay what the law requires and start looking for someone who will love and respect you and wants to be around you. Don't make the mistake I did in loosing 2 years crying over someone who doesn't love you. It isn't worth it.

Your relationship had become toxic long ago and now, dear brother, the best that can happen for you is that you start seeing someone new and start from scratch. Like I said, don't make the mistake I made and loose 2 years or more hoping to fix things up...they wont. the pain takes a while to go away but it does eventually. And the sooner you are going out to SA activities and meeting new people the sooner the pain will go away too.

Best wishes...

John.