First Article Of Faith

[Guest MrsS]

<div align="center">The Articles of Faith

of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

How many times have you personally said to some one that - YES, I am a Christian. YES I beleive in God, the Eternal Father. Yes I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ. YES I believe in the Holy Ghost. Just to have them tell you that no you don't.

How often have we all explained this time and again to investigators here on this Forum? I sometimes wonder if they will ever get it. Will they ever understand and accept that YES, the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are christians. That we not only believe in, we worship God, the Eternal Father, and we worship His Son, Jesus Christ.

[Dr T]

I think the divisiveness comes from what Hinckley said about not believe in the classic/historical Jesus of the Bible. He believes in the Jesus that Joseph Smith taught. Just a thought about where this might be coming from.

Dr. T

[Latter Days Guy]

I think the divisiveness comes from what Hinckley said about not believe in the classic/historical Jesus of the Bible. He believes in the Jesus that Joseph Smith taught. Just a thought about where this might be coming from.

Dr. T

Interesting, could you point me to a link that has what President Hinckley said please?

[Lindy]

<div align="center">The Articles of Faith

of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

How many times have you personally said to some one that - YES, I am a Christian. YES I beleive in God, the Eternal Father. Yes I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ. YES I believe in the Holy Ghost. Just to have them tell you that no you don't.

How often have we all explained this time and again to investigators here on this Forum? I sometimes wonder if they will ever get it. Will they ever understand and accept that YES, the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are christians. That we not only believe in, we worship God, the Eternal Father, and we worship His Son, Jesus Christ.

And I'll add.... we DO NOT worship Joseph Smith

I get tired of hearing that we do

[Dr T]

Hello GB-UK,

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7 )

I tried to get the whole thing from LDS.org library and couldn't. Maybe you can have better luck.

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div align="center">The Articles of Faith

of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

How many times have you personally said to some one that - YES, I am a Christian. YES I beleive in God, the Eternal Father. Yes I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ. YES I believe in the Holy Ghost. Just to have them tell you that no you don't.

How often have we all explained this time and again to investigators here on this Forum? I sometimes wonder if they will ever get it. Will they ever understand and accept that YES, the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are christians. That we not only believe in, we worship God, the Eternal Father, and we worship His Son, Jesus Christ.

And I'll add.... we DO NOT worship Joseph Smith

Amen to that! </span>

I also get tired when they argue with me telling me WHAT I do believe in ~ and it is all anti stuff that they have heard.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Dr. T, Pres. Hinckley qualified his reference to the "traditional Jesus of Christianity" elsewhere by referring to the countless councils seeking to define his nature, essence, etc... and saying that Joseph Smith didn't have to interpret scripture alone...he talked to God the Father and Jesus in person.

His quote gets twisted to somehow mean we don't believe in Jesus as a Savior. After all, Christianity is built on the belief in Jesus as our personal Savior. So it's not hard for enemies of the Church to say, "Pres. Hinkcley doesn't believe in the Christian Jesus," and imply that LDS aren't Christians and that Joseph Smith invented another Christ with other powers or duties.

All it means is that we LDS aren't confused or uncertain about Christ's nature, form, likeness, etc... He has an exalted body of flesh and bones, as does his Father. Regardless of what someone believes about their essence, the one thing we agree on is that Jesus is the only way to the Father.

That's what counts...and that's what gets suppressed when quoting Pres. Hinckley on the matter.

[Dr T]

Thanks AK,

I see/understand your position. I am learning however that the Biblical version of Jesus is different in essence and this is what Mr. Hinkley is comfortable claiming believing in a different Jesus. Bibically, I have never heard a Christian claim that Jesus was a man exalted to Godhood. In that, the versions are different.

Dr. T

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Which is precisely what I said.

However, whenever someone repeats this quote of Pres. Hinckley, it's most often to try to show that LDS don't believe in the Savior of the Bible, the alternative being some heretical invention of a boy named Joseph Smith. That's what annoys me.

[Latter Days Guy]

Hello GB-UK,

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7 )

I tried to get the whole thing from LDS.org library and couldn't. Maybe you can have better luck.

Thanks,

Dr. T

So where does it say he doesn't believe in the Jesus of the Bible then?

[prisonchaplain]

<div align="center">The Articles of Faith

of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

By way of comparison, note the following (Articles 2-3 of the Assemblies of God version, if you will):

WE BELIEVE...2. There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity). WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Statement_of_Fun...s/sft_short.cfm

While these two statements/articles sound very similar, there are some signficant differences.

The three persons of the godhead are essentially independent, though share a corporate purpose, according the LDS teaching. In contrast, Protestant/Catholic teaching is that the three persons of the godhead are essentially one.

This difference is pretty important, since it refers to the very nature of God. Can we agree to disagree and call ourselves brothers and sisters in Christ? That's the open question. How relevent is core doctrinal beliefs to one's relationship with God?

How many times have you personally said to some one that - YES, I am a Christian. YES I beleive in God, the Eternal Father. Yes I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ. YES I believe in the Holy Ghost. Just to have them tell you that no you don't.

Okay, so, yes you do. However, it is also fair to say that the Eternal Father, Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Ghost are understood quite differently in the LDS faith system, versus most other churches. So, how different can two sects be before we say they are in fact different religions?

How often have we all explained this time and again to investigators here on this Forum? I sometimes wonder if they will ever get it. Will they ever understand and accept that YES, the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are christians. That we not only believe in, we worship God, the Eternal Father, and we worship His Son, Jesus Christ.

Let's try this "acceptance line" and see what you think:

1. LDS IS NOT CHRISTIAN --

2. LDS IS A CHRISTIAN SECT ON THE FRINGE OF OUR FAITH --

3. LDS IS A MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN CHURCH THAT IS MISUNDERTOOD --

4. LDS IS THE ONE TRUE RESTORED CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN THESE LAST DAYS --

My suggestion is that #1 is quite a common view amongst many Christians--especially evangelicals/fundamentalists.

#2. Is less common, and is a huge distance from #1. It might be a view held by mainstream and liberal churches, for the most part.

#3. Is actually a huge distance from #2, and is probably the choice most LDS wish that most Christians would take.

#4. Is probably quite close to #3. For a Christian to see the LDS church as holding mainstream beliefs, and further, to see it as a victim of misinformation would indicate to me that this is a prime candidate for conversion.

I understand your frustration. To a much lesser extent, Pentecostals went through the transition from being deemed cult-like, to fringe sect, to mainstream. On the other hand, Pentecostal teachings were not so different--it was our "liturgy" that spooked some of the non-Pentecostals.

Don't know if I've helped explain the divide...I hope so. None of this is to excuse obnoxious and aggressive behavior that sometimes comes from professing Christians.

[Dr T]

Hello GB-UK,

From where do you think "the traditional view on Jesus" comes if not from the Bible? I am learning a lot about LDS thought. I am seeking knowledge and am seeing differences. I am not here to lead people astray or cause contention. If you are curious as to the differences that my untrained mind has come across, PM me and then I will feel comfortable sharing with you and give you a chance to correct my misperceptions.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[Latter Days Guy]

Hello GB-UK,

From where do you think "the traditional view on Jesus" comes if not from the Bible? I am learning a lot about LDS thought. I am seeking knowledge and am seeing differences. I am not here to lead people astray or cause contention. If you are curious as to the differences that my untrained mind has come across, PM me and then I will feel comfortable sharing with you and give you a chance to correct my misperceptions.

Thank you,

Dr. T

The traditional view of Jesus as I was taught at bible college comes from the creeds and councils held through the first few centuries of the early church and not from the bible. It was these councils that decided who and what constituted God. As someone has already mentioned it was this that President Hinckley was refering to when he said he did not believe in the traditional view of Jesus.

[Dr T]

Hi GB-UK,

We are getting away from the OP (sorry Mrs.S). If you want to start a new thread or talk via PM, I'd be happy to discuss what differences I've seen to date. If you want to call it "creeds that differ" then we can talk about the particular issue that you have about the creeds and see if there are biblical support for them or not. We can then move from there into what the Bible teaches about Jesus and see, if at all, those very from LDS teachings. Just let me know. I'm always ready for a lesson.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[Warmwaddle]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div align="center">The Articles of Faith

of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

How many times have you personally said to some one that - YES, I am a Christian. YES I beleive in God, the Eternal Father. Yes I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ. YES I believe in the Holy Ghost. Just to have them tell you that no you don't.

How often have we all explained this time and again to investigators here on this Forum? I sometimes wonder if they will ever get it. Will they ever understand and accept that YES, the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are christians. That we not only believe in, we worship God, the Eternal Father, and we worship His Son, Jesus Christ.

And I'll add.... we DO NOT worship Joseph Smith

Amen to that! </span>

I also get tired when they argue with me telling me WHAT I do believe in ~ and it is all anti stuff that they have heard.

That does not sound like how he talks...

[Traveler]

The first article of faith is a clear and easy to understand statement of what the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS teaches in relationship to the three divine individuals that are worshiped by Christians as represented in Christian scripture.

The scriptures make a clear distinction and a literal intention to differentiate the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is not engaged is sophistry to override or redefine this clear differentiation but rather to maintain or to restore what was understood by the apostles and others of authority that wrote scripture.

The Traveler