Jason_J Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 So I will be sustained at stake conference next weekend to receive the Melchizedek priesthood, and I've been thinking about who I would like to ordain me, which brought me to think about the circle. What is the purpose of the circle during ordinations and confirmations? When did it start? Where can I read more about it (I can't seem to find any info). Is there a maximum number of people allowed to stand in the circle for an ordination? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The ordination circle is purely a side-effect of the fact that our heads are not very big and people can't stand in mid-air. If our heads were twelve feet long, we would have two ordination lines facing each other (I suppose with overlapping heads among those in the lines). If we could stand in mid-air, we would have an ordination hemisphere instead of a circle. There is technically no maximum number, but common sense and the ability to reach the man's head dictates that no more than a dozen or so stand in the circle. I have seen two-deep circles, but they are not usual. My local leaders counsel those receiving ordinations to limit the number of participants to a half-dozen or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The purpose of the circle is so that more than the minimum number of participants can be involved in the ordinance. There is no 'need' for more than the minimum (kinda obvious) but it's simply people wanting to share involvement in life events. Vort explains quite well why it ends up a circle instead of some other arrangement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Congrats Jason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 So I will be sustained at stake conference next weekend to receive the Melchizedek priesthood, and I've been thinking about who I would like to ordain me, which brought me to think about the circle. What is the purpose of the circle during ordinations and confirmations? When did it start? Where can I read more about it (I can't seem to find any info). Is there a maximum number of people allowed to stand in the circle for an ordination? Thanks!COngrats :)Well there is a physical limitation, as they need to have their hands on your head. But i don' tthink there's doctrinal limit.My guess with how it started would be something to do with the symbology of prayer circles (if there is a symbology to it), which have been around a lot longer than just the restored church.Circles are often a symbol of both completeness and eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obolus Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 My guess with how it started would be something to do with the symbology of prayer circles (if there is a symbology to it), which have been around a lot longer than just the restored church.Circles are often a symbol of both completeness and eternity.Bingo. All circles of ordinance in a chapel or home reference those that occur in a temple. The point is to endow the powers/keys in question upon the head of the individual. The circle veils that individual from view, hence there is a transformation that takes place:The individual before the laying on of hands -> the individual within the cirlce of ordinance -> the authorized/empowered individual.All veils are intended to 'rebirth' those that pass through them. Hence Jesus conversation with Nicodemus concerning baptism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan117 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Congratulations sir. I only had 2 people, my friend who ordained me and my bishop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Bingo. All circles of ordinance in a chapel or home reference those that occur in a temple. The point is to endow the powers/keys in question upon the head of the individual. The circle veils that individual from view, hence there is a transformation that takes place:The individual before the laying on of hands -> the individual within the cirlce of ordinance -> the authorized/empowered individual.All veils are intended to 'rebirth' those that pass through them. Hence Jesus conversation with Nicodemus concerning baptism.Unfortunately, I can't explain fully why I disagree with you on this since we are not in the temple. There is nothing to indicate that "circles of ordinance" reference those that occur in the temple (which is only one and isn't an ordinance). And what exactly are "circles of ordinance"? Are you only talking about when a man is ordained? Otherwise, baptism is an ordinance and not done in a circle. As Vort explained, they only stand in a circle to be able to lay hands on the head of someone. Only one MP is needed to actually ordain someone--how does one stand in a circle by himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obolus Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 There is nothing to indicate that "circles of ordinance" reference those that occur in the temple (which is only one and isn't an ordinance).Except for the fact that the chapel is an extension of the temple. The rite that is performed there (the sacrament) is the replacement of the animal sacrifices that took place in the ancient temple. If the sacrament is the "most sacred of all ordinances" (according to JR Holland), then how could the chapel not be a temple?And what exactly are "circles of ordinance"?Just a nice way of saying prayer circle. Any ordinance where the Lord's Atonement comes 'full circle' basically qualifies. It doesn't always have to look like a circle, but it happens often.Are you only talking about when a man is ordained?I'm talking about all ordinances that involve the laying on of hands. Otherwise, baptism is an ordinance and not done in a circle.The births performed by women are answered by the rebirths performed by Christ & his servants. Baptism is one where we come full circle from the womb to the font. Hence, Jesus was baptized before his ministry, and the completion of his "passion" culminated with the tearing of the veil in the temple... which was itself a symbol of the consummation of Jesus fulfilling the Law of Moses. Baptism also utilizes the laying on of hands. Hands are used in every ordinance because all ordinances equate to 'veil work', which can only be performed with hands that draw people through a veil. The sacrament is veil work. Ordinations and setting apart are all veil work. Baby blessings are veil work.As Vort explained, they only stand in a circle to be able to lay hands on the head of someone. Only one MP is needed to actually ordain someone--how does one stand in a circle by himself?The circle is never physically "perfect" even when there are a dozen MPs. But a circle is certainly completed by the laying on of hands even when it is just one MP. It is created by the hands/arms/torso of the body of the MP and the head of the person receiving. All instances of the laying on of hands constitute a "prayer circle" without exception, as a) there are always at least two people involved, and b) the faith of both is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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