Pedophilia Is Sexual Orientation

[Bini]

I read this article on another forum that I frequent.

Psychologist says pedophilia is sexual orientation similar to homosexuality

Edited October 21, 2011 by Bini
Fixed URL

[annewandering]

It is true that it is very hard to change a pedophile. Trying to justify it by that reasoning is pretty hard to stomach.

I read the comments section as well. Some are saying children can chose. Well let me tell you they cant. They can be groomed to accept it though since they are too young to know what is happening to them. That is hardly a license or acceptance or choice.

These people will keep pushing and we know that societies standards can be changed by constant repetitions of the old "it is normal, its choice and if you dont accept it you are a bigot and mean to those who cant change" rhetoric. Don't be surprised if movies and tv shows start showing up as cutting edge showing the pedophiles justifications.

[jerome1232]

I've been saying the general acceptance of one form of sexual deviation may lead to general acceptance of more extreme forms of sexual deviation, such as children and animals.

I was told that I was being ridiculous. I really hope I was.

[Guest]

Bull puckey. This makes me absolutely sick. jerome, I think you're absolutely right, and I believe that most times it starts with porn and leads slowly to deviations like child porn, and then acting on it, because it becomes so "normal" in the brain of the partaker. Satan sure found a winning strike with that one.

[bytebear]

I remember in college, the professor showed statistics of criminals and hereditary. Essentially it had four squares: 1. Biological children raised by criminals, 2. adopted children raised by criminals 3. biological children raised by non-Criminals and 4. children with biological criminal parents raised by non-criminals.

Got that?

So, obviously the highest incident of children becoming criminals was the biological children raised by criminals. But the kicker is that the second highest group were children who had biological criminal parents, but who were raised by non-criminals.

in other words, criminality may be genetic.

But, we don't condemn or punish people for their genetic makeup. We punish them for their actions. So maybe someone is predisposed to be a pedophile. But it's the act of pedophilia that is the sin.

Similarly in the church, the general authorities have emphasized over and over that homosexual feelings or even identifying yourself as "gay" is not the sin. It is the act of immorality.

Unfortunately we live in a society that has very loose morals right now, and so it is far easier to act in such an environment. I suspect the church is more against the "gay lifestyle" than about people being gay.

[LittleWyvern]

Wait, so "sexual orientation" includes age as well as gender? That's... weird.

[annewandering]

I remember in college, the professor showed statistics of criminals and hereditary. Essentially it had four squares: 1. Biological children raised by criminals, 2. adopted children raised by criminals 3. biological children raised by non-Criminals and 4. children with biological criminal parents raised by non-criminals.

Got that?

So, obviously the highest incident of children becoming criminals was the biological children raised by criminals. But the kicker is that the second highest group were children who had biological criminal parents, but who were raised by non-criminals.

in other words, criminality may be genetic.

But, we don't condemn or punish people for their genetic makeup. We punish them for their actions. So maybe someone is predisposed to be a pedophile. But it's the act of pedophilia that is the sin.

Similarly in the church, the general authorities have emphasized over and over that homosexual feelings or even identifying yourself as "gay" is not the sin. It is the act of immorality.

Unfortunately we live in a society that has very loose morals right now, and so it is far easier to act in such an environment. I suspect the church is more against the "gay lifestyle" than about people being gay.

I do not accept that children of criminal are born to be bad. In googling the idea that kids are born bad there are some interesting studies that have been done. What they point to is that we may be born with genetic traits that make life more difficult. If we know that then it can point out flaws that need to be worked on but not accept as unchangable or leading to a criminal life.

Edited October 22, 2011 by annewandering

[bytebear]

I agree. You should see the movie GATTACA.

[jerome1232]

GATTACA.

I love that movie!

[Soulsearcher]

I do not accept that children of criminal are born to be bad. In googling the idea that kids are born bad there are some interesting studies that have been done. What they point to is that we may be born with genetic traits that make life more difficult. If we know that then it can point out flaws that need to be worked on but not accept as unchangable or leading to a criminal life.

The issue that pops up here is the difference between unchangeable and uncontrollable. For the most part genetic and biological traits don't change. They can be controlled but rarely changed. A lot of the stress in some peoples lives comes from them saying " i can't change who i am" and people telling them they are wrong and mistaken. If it was said "you may not be able to change yourself, but with work you can control yourself if you wanted to" then it might actually make a bit more progress.

[Soulsearcher]

Bull puckey. This makes me absolutely sick. jerome, I think you're absolutely right, and I believe that most times it starts with porn and leads slowly to deviations like child porn, and then acting on it, because it becomes so "normal" in the brain of the partaker. Satan sure found a winning strike with that one.

Except the thing is while you believe it starts this way it rarely does. Jerome saying general acceptance of one deviation(assumed homosexuality) could lead to acceptance of others. I was assuming he meant societal acceptance leading to society being more accepting of other deviant attitudes. Where you seen to be taking it more by a person on person basis. in many less cases does it start with porn. Being one form of deviant(homosexual) i didn't ever watch porn til early 20's. Didn't mean in any way i didn't know i was attracted sexually to men. I haven't talked to any gay men who didn't know they were homosexual before they found porn. too many people look for the easy way to blame where these "deviants" come from. The thing that seems to be missed from the bulk of the article is " pedophilia could be an orientation arising from biological factors, that does not excuse the behaviors, just that it might not be what people have always assumed". If true it changes treatment alternatives and can work on suppression and coping rather than cure treatments. If you look at the number of true cured and converted homosexuals who remain that way (less than 8% treated) and look at the number of homosexuals that repress and refrain from acting on their behaviors but still identify as gay ( most of the remaining "success" stories in reformation therapy 65% or over if i remember correctly), this could make a huge impact on understanding, possibly preventing and if needed controlling but not curing pedophiles. As noted earlier the church already has taken this stance with homosexuals, control over change, and one should maybe trust their judgment in seeing the difference. I see things to be wary of in the article but i see a lot of good take aways as well.

[Dravin]

The issue that pops up here is the difference between unchangeable and uncontrollable. For the most part genetic and biological traits don't change. They can be controlled but rarely changed. A lot of the stress in some peoples lives comes from them saying " i can't change who i am" and people telling them they are wrong and mistaken. If it was said "you may not be able to change yourself, but with work you can control yourself if you wanted to" then it might actually make a bit more progress.

A lot of confusion happens because some people use "I can't change who I am" as a shorthand for "I can't control that aspect of myself". A prime example would be someone with a temper, rightly or wrongly, you'll hear someone with a temper explain, "It's just who I am." as if that means it cannot be controlled. Obviously, if you inherited say ADHD from a parent you can't just control away the genetic aspects (I'm not overly aware of the literature of the validity of such, but roll with it), but rarely is that what both sides are talking about.

It really boils down to how much you parse changing who you are to mean literally changing your biological make-up, or changing your behavior. Most people, when they talk about changing who they are, are talking about behavior and not something less mutable, like say sex, height, or eye color. Not everyone though (and some disagree on just what is and isn't mutable), so being aware of the distinction does have value.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Dravin

[jerome1232]

I wanted to be clear I meant society accepting the behaviors as normal, even encouraged. Yes I was speaking about societies acceptance of homosexual behavior, although it could be extended to societies social acceptance of males viewing porn as normal and even healthy (to the point that women are looked down on if they have an issue with it).

I want to make it very clear I am talking about the behavior, not the people. I know the word deviant may have a negative connotation, but it simply means a behavior that differs from the normal, or majority behavior. From my perspective homosexual behavior is a sexual deviant behavior, I'm in no way trying to demonize people with that statement.

I have a hard time calling viewing of pornography as deviant (since in our society it certainly seems to be the standard), although I certainly feel it violates the sacredness of the act, among other things.

I have personally a lot of trouble with people stating they knew their orientation at a very early age, I mean I had no idea I liked women until I was like 11, then the hormones hit.

I can't help but feel the pattern goes something like,

"it's okay for men to look at porn"

"it's okay for men and women to look at porn"

"it's okay for children to have sex with other children (meaning under 18)"

"it's okay for men to have sex with men"

"it's okay for groups to have sex" and etc....

[annewandering]

I have personally a lot of trouble with people stating they knew their orientation at a very early age, I mean I had no idea I liked women until I was like 11, then the hormones hit.

.

I have always wondered about this too. It would seem to make sense that sexual desires come at puberty. When I was a kid there was the b/f g/f thing but it was a social thing not sexual.

Perhaps some are confused by wanting friendship with same sex with the social demand for pairing up at very early ages?

[Soulsearcher]

I have always wondered about this too. It would seem to make sense that sexual desires come at puberty. When I was a kid there was the b/f g/f thing but it was a social thing not sexual.

Perhaps some are confused by wanting friendship with same sex with the social demand for pairing up at very early ages?

The sexual aspect of it doesn't tend to kick in as much til around the age of puberty, but there does tend to be more to it. While all my friends were having the lil school age crushes on girls i tended to have the crushes on them. In our school there were recess games of boys chasing girls or girls chasing boys with the intent to kiss them. I couldn't think of anything worse than being kissed by any of the girls, while my friends were always secretly hoping a certain girl might kiss them cause they liked her(even though girls were icky and gross). I had many male friends i was not attracted to, but also had some that while maybe not sexually attracted i did "like" them different than my other male friends. Also the years before puberty my curiosity never turned towards exploring with girls. Where it's common or normal for children to be curious and "play doctor" my curiosity went in one very clear direction where almost all of my male friends were far more focused on females, though i had plenty of opportunity to explore with girls. I was almost into puberty before i even came close to hearing a word to describe my thoughts and feelings.

[Blackmarch]

I read this article on another forum that I frequent.

Psychologist says pedophilia is sexual orientation similar to homosexuality

considering all the orientations a person develops is much much much more complicated than "they were born with it".... it still doesn't always excuse or justify a particular behavior. Edited October 24, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Dravin]

considering all the orientations a person develops is much much much more complicated than "they were born with it".... it still doesn't always excuse or justify a particular behavior.

Even if it was genetic (aka nature) it doesn't necessarily justify behavior. A prime example being the ADHD previously mentioned, just because I may have a genetic predisposition towards a behavior (in this case I have a quick temper in mind) isn't carte blanc to engage in it. The natural man is an enemy to God (Mosiah 3:19), we are not given permission to yield to the enticing of the natural man, but rather to yield to the enticing of the Holy Spirit.

[annewandering]

__________________

God moves in extremely mysterious, not to say, circuitous ways. God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players*, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time. Footnote to above: * ie., everybody

Good Omens

Lol I dont like this book but even without seeing the name I knew it was a Pratchett quote. He is just a wonderful writer.

anyway back to topic. just had to comment on the signature.

[Soulsearcher]

__________________

God moves in extremely mysterious, not to say, circuitous ways. God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players*, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time. Footnote to above: * ie., everybody

Good Omens

Lol I dont like this book but even without seeing the name I knew it was a Pratchett quote. He is just a wonderful writer.

anyway back to topic. just had to comment on the signature.

As much as i enjoy most of Practchett's work, Good Omens has always been the best of his work in my mind. LOL tends to kinda cover how i view theology in simple terms lol.

[annewandering]

As much as i enjoy most of Practchett's work, Good Omens has always been the best of his work in my mind. LOL tends to kinda cover how i view theology in simple terms lol.

My daughters love that book too. I just dont understand why lol.

[Soulsearcher]

My daughters love that book too. I just dont understand why lol.

I love it because of how it portrays the powers that be. Neither really looking out for the souls of humanity, just more wrapped up in their own plan than actually caring about the well being of their playthings. The almost casual way good and evil are willing to just wipe everything clean to prove who was right or wrong, and just how easy actual humanity can throw a wrench even in the most cosmic of plans. Tends to lend it's self more to my view of spiritual matters.

[RescueMom]

I think pedophilia is a learned choice, and once learned can not be unlearned. The ability to change a pedophile is almost impossible, hence such a high repeat rate in them....and they always seem to escalate the crime. And it has more to do with controlling the other person (child) and stealing innocence than it does with sexuality. Not that it doesn't have to do with the pedophiles sexuality, it's how they get aroused but it has more to do with the control aspect of their brains, which have been trained, rewired wrong (usually through their own abuse as children). I don't think a baby is born with those traits, but is groomed and taught that it is ok through years of abuse. A good lot of people don't get the wires warped but some do, especially if their is not a good loving family support system to help heal the abuse. Most gang members were victims of sexual abuse as children, or at least physical abuse...of course they will grow up without any self esteem or value of life, no one valued them. Most prostitutes and exotic dancers have been abused sexually as children. Most porn actors/actresses were abused sexually as children. Druggies usually come from backgrounds of abuse, physical or sexual or both. To say it is not part of society already is to be putting our heads in the sand.

The problem I have with the way things are handled now is we (society) victimize the victim of these crimes by making them feel used, not pure. It takes work and time to heal these kind of hurts, and with some it can not be healed in this lifetime.

And on the other topic, I love Good Omens.