Wanted- Honest Answers About Your Faith!

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

And the one true God exists as "separate, distinct personages" who are all in their essence one God.

I like it when we do agree. :)

Ray, are you saying that you agree with the above statement - you believe the above statement to be true? If so, I am shocked, it's a good shock, but still a shock.

M.

Yes, I agree with that statement. I said it and I meant what I said.

Do you know what I meant by what I said in my words? Or do you think that I meant something else?

You and I do agree a lot more than you realize, Maureen, but words sometimes get in our way.

Each "person" who is God is truly God in person in all of His personal essence, but each person who is God is not the very same person as other persons who you know are truly God.

So does that mean there are 3 gods, or only one God, when you know that each person is God?

Is our Lord truly God? Is our Father truly God? So how many are there out there who are God?

Is the Holy Ghost truly God? That's 1 + those 2, so how many are there now who are God?

What if you and I both become "one" with God... how many are there who are God out there then?

And how many Gods are there out there in existence if each person is His essence is truly God?

Hint: Try first thinking of Man, and how many who are Man who are out there in all of existence.

Is there only one Man, knowing what you know of Man, or some others out there who are Man too?

And if there are any others, and they're all like what is Man, then how many are there who are Man?

I hope that you won't need some aspirin. It's very simple, but seems hard, if you make it hard. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, I'll try to clarify.

No matter how many "persons" there are or may be in what is known as "God", whether 1, or 3, or many more (we'll someday see), there is only one true God in all of existence... again, regardless of whether there is 1, or 3, or many more "persons".

Better now???

Try thinking of that. Get it ALL figured out. Then take 3 aspirins and call me in the morning. :)

Well, let's see if it is better. You're saying that whether the Trinity (One God in three co-equal persons), or the Godhead of LDS (One God that we worship, working in corporation with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who have the fullness of God in them, and so are God, but yet, are not) is true, there's still only one God (even if, he had a Father 'before' (an odd term, since we're all eternal) him.

Did I get it?

[Dr T]

Hello Ray,

You said,

Okay, I'll try to clarify.

No matter how many "persons" there are or may be in what is known as "God", whether 1, or 3, or many more (we'll someday see), there is only one true God in all of existence... again, regardless of whether there is 1, or 3, or many more "persons".

Better now???

No. I'm asking about the gods that preceded and follow your god. That did not clarify that matter for me. Can you please try and explain what you mean again. I appreciate it, Ray.

Dr. T

[Ray]

Hello Ray,

You said,

Okay, I'll try to clarify.

No matter how many "persons" there are or may be in what is known as "God", whether 1, or 3, or many more (we'll someday see), there is only one true God in all of existence... again, regardless of whether there is 1, or 3, or many more "persons".

Better now???

No. I'm asking about the gods that preceded and follow your god. That did not clarify that matter for me. Can you please try and explain what you mean again. I appreciate it, Ray.

Dr. T

Okay. What about them?

I'm saying it doesn't matter how many persons there were and are who are God, because there still is only one God. ( and by God I'm not referring to our Father in heaven this time )

Why are you asking about other persons who are God when the number of persons doesn't change things?

With proper understanding, there is only one God. (and again, when using the word "God", I'm not referring to our Father in heaven, this time )

Do you know how to get at the truth? Then ask a simple question, and make sure it makes sense.

What question are you really trying to ask?

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Okay, I'll try to clarify.

No matter how many "persons" there are or may be in what is known as "God", whether 1, or 3, or many more (we'll someday see), there is only one true God in all of existence... again, regardless of whether there is 1, or 3, or many more "persons".

Better now???

Try thinking of that. Get it ALL figured out. Then take 3 aspirins and call me in the morning. :)

Well, let's see if it is better. You're saying that whether the Trinity (One God in three co-equal persons), or the Godhead of LDS (One God that we worship, working in corporation with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who have the fullness of God in them, and so are God, but yet, are not) is true, there's still only one God (even if, he had a Father 'before' (an odd term, since we're all eternal) him.

Did I get it?

NOPE, not quite... but it would be if your last "him" was a "them".

There is only one God in all of existence, no matter how many "persons" there are.

And whether we (LDS) are right, or whether you are right, there is still only one true God in existence.

And by the word "God" I'm referring to the ULTIMATE of all the beings there truly are in existence.

So if our Father is the ULTIMATE, and our Lord is the ULTIMATE, of all the beings there truly are in existence, they are both the one God, the only God that is one, the only one true God, in existence.

:)

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Okay, I'll try to clarify.

No matter how many "persons" there are or may be in what is known as "God", whether 1, or 3, or many more (we'll someday see), there is only one true God in all of existence... again, regardless of whether there is 1, or 3, or many more "persons".

Better now???

Try thinking of that. Get it ALL figured out. Then take 3 aspirins and call me in the morning. :)

Well, let's see if it is better. You're saying that whether the Trinity (One God in three co-equal persons), or the Godhead of LDS (One God that we worship, working in corporation with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who have the fullness of God in them, and so are God, but yet, are not) is true, there's still only one God (even if, he had a Father 'before' (an odd term, since we're all eternal) him.

Did I get it?

NOPE, not quite... but it would be if your last "him" was a "them".

There is only one God in all of existence, no matter how many "persons" there are.

And whether we (LDS) are right, or whether you are right, there is still only one true God in existence.

And by the word "God" I'm referring to the ULTIMATE of all the beings there truly are in existence.

So if our Father is the ULTIMATE, and our Lord is the ULTIMATE, of all the beings there truly are in existence, they are both the one God, the only God that is one, the only one true God, in existence.

:)

Ray...I am confused.

This sounds like the trinity.

[Ray]

There are 3 who truly are one, Desire', so whether it sounds like the trinity, or something else, the fact remains there are 3 who are one... and according to Them, all 3 who are one, we can be one with them too.

We have more in common than some think. :)

[Princess3dward]

errrr... but..... I was taught different.. that only Heavenly Father is God, and Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Ghost is our guide on earth..

[Maureen]

Yes, I agree with that statement. I said it and I meant what I said.

Do you know what I meant by what I said in my words? Or do you think that I meant something else?

You and I do agree a lot more than you realize, Maureen, but words sometimes get in our way.

Each "person" who is God is truly God in person in all of His personal essence, but each person who is God is not the very same person as other persons who you know are truly God.

So does that mean there are 3 gods, or only one God, when you know that each person is God?

Is our Lord truly God? Is our Father truly God? So how many are there out there who are God?

Is the Holy Ghost truly God? That's 1 + those 2, so how many are there now who are God?

So far I think I follow and my understanding would say "one God".

What if you and I both become "one" with God... how many are there who are God out there then?

And how many Gods are there out there in existence if each person is His essence is truly God?

Hint: Try first thinking of Man, and how many who are Man who are out there in all of existence.

Is there only one Man, knowing what you know of Man, or some others out there who are Man too?

And if there are any others, and they're all like what is Man, then how many are there who are Man?

I hope that you won't need some aspirin. It's very simple, but seems hard, if you make it hard. :)

Now this part, is making me think that you are referring to man in "god embryo form" - because IIRC you believe that of course mankind has the potential to become godlike, therefore God; but because its more of a nature (from human to divine) than a type of entity, everyone who has this nature are "one God". Am I close?

Here's somthing that confuses me about the trinity theory; correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of it is that the Father, is God; the Holy Spirit is His manifestation in the spirit, and Jesus is His manifestation in the flesh. All being the same being.

So the part that confuses me is this: when we read the account of Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit descended from Heaven in the form of a dove, and a voice spoke from Heaven saying: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." So at this point we have record of all three members of the trinity together in one area, except occupying three different plots of real estate.

What is the deal? Could someone please clear this up for me?

Hi LH,

I copied this from a more heated discussion from another thread, but this hopefully will answer your question:

...the Trinity does not confound the persons of the Godhead. Each person is distinct and separate - the Father is the Father, he is never the Son or the HS, the Son is the Son, he is never the Father or the HS, the HS is the HS, he is never the Father or the Son...The Trinity has never said the Son and Spirit are the Father..., the Trinity says that all 3 persons are God. And just to add, the 3 persons (Father, Son and HS) are individually or collectively God.

I hope that helps. :)

M.

[LionHeart]

Ray, this sounds like strange doctrine to me. Very trinitarian indeed.

We have a Godhead; not to be confused with God. Ultimately, Our Father in Heaven is God. The Godhead consists of three distinct personages, but does not constitute God. Think of it like the first presidency: It consists of three different individuals, but there is only one who bears the title of 'President of the Church'.

Keep in mind, God the Father is ruler over many worlds. He also has a father who went before Him. He is subject unto His Father. We are subject Unto our Father. Therefore, He is our God. He established the Godhead (likely following the example set by His Father in Heaven) to ensure that all of our spiritual needs would be taken care of. As was mentioned before, God the Father has many worlds to oversee, therefore, He placed Jesus to assist Him in overseeing this world, and the Holy Ghost as our spiritual Guide. All three constituting the Godhead, but not constituting God.

L.H.

Hi LH,

I copied this from a more heated discussion from another thread, but this hopefully will answer your question:

...the Trinity does not confound the persons of the Godhead. Each person is distinct and separate - the Father is the Father, he is never the Son or the HS, the Son is the Son, he is never the Father or the HS, the HS is the HS, he is never the Father or the Son...The Trinity has never said the Son and Spirit are the Father..., the Trinity says that all 3 persons are God. And just to add, the 3 persons (Father, Son and HS) are individually or collectively God.

I hope that helps. :)

M.

Thank you Maureen. That clears things up immensly.

L.H.

[Ray]

errrr... but..... I was taught different.. that only Heavenly Father is God, and Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Ghost is our guide on earth..

You're still very young, Desire'. There's more depth to our (LDS) teachings than you think.

You can simply use the scriptures, and our (LDS) Topical Guide, to see that our Lord is also God... not the same person we usually refer to as our Father, but God... the one and only God in true existence.

<div class='quotemain'>

Yes, I agree with that statement. I said it and I meant what I said.

Do you know what I meant by what I said in my words? Or do you think that I meant something else?

You and I do agree a lot more than you realize, Maureen, but words sometimes get in our way.

Each "person" who is God is truly God in person in all of His personal essence, but each person who is God is not the very same person as other persons who you know are truly God.

So does that mean there are 3 gods, or only one God, when you know that each person is God?

Is our Lord truly God? Is our Father truly God? So how many are there out there who are God?

Is the Holy Ghost truly God? That's 1 + those 2, so how many are there now who are God?

So far I think I follow and my understanding would say "one God".

What if you and I both become "one" with God... how many are there who are God out there then?

And how many Gods are there out there in existence if each person is His essence is truly God?

Hint: Try first thinking of Man, and how many who are Man who are out there in all of existence.

Is there only one Man, knowing what you know of Man, or some others out there who are Man too?

And if there are any others, and they're all like what is Man, then how many are there who are Man?

I hope that you won't need some aspirin. It's very simple, but seems hard, if you make it hard. :)

Now this part, is making me think that you are referring to man in "god embryo form" - because IIRC you believe that of course mankind has the potential to become godlike, therefore God; but because its more of a nature (from human to divine) than a type of entity, everyone who has this nature are "one God". Am I close?

Yes, you are very, very close. :)

[Princess3dward]

*following slowly*

Wait... so... it is different than the trinity?

[Ray]

*following slowly*

Wait... so... it is different than the trinity?

You will get different answers from different people regarding what the "Trinity" is... which, btw, is a word that is NOT written in the Bible or any of our official (LDS) scriptures.

And what we (LDS) believe and testify of as truth is in regards to the following facts:

There is really and truly only one God in existence who can truly be referred to as God.

There are 3 persons who are God, and each of those persons is a separate, distinct, individual "person"

We (all people) can become one with God, through one person who is known as Jesus Christ

And again, I'm NOT using the word "God" to refer to our Father in heaven, this time. I'm using the word "God" to refer to the ULTIMATE of ALL beings there truly are in existence.

I hope you now hear what I'm saying.

And btw, yes, there is more. There's a LOT more we can learn about God.

And the best way to learn about God is from God, and from those whom God sends to teach all of us.

[Princess3dward]

I am thinking really hard about it....

[Ray]

I am thinking really hard about it....

If you're thinking while praying, God will hear you.

And if you ask God to help you, God will.

God can help you anytime you want to know what is true,

So if you really want to hear God, be still.

:)

[LionHeart]

Ray, why don't you say it like this: In the heavens, there are Gods many; but there is only one God to whom we are concerned with. This God is our Father in Heaven. The Son of God, whom we know as Jesus Christ, payed for this world with His blood and earned the right to assist in overseeing it; working directly under His Father. Therefore we also refer to Him as God; as He is the mediator between us and our Father in Heaven. No one enters into Gods kingdom except through Jesus Christ. Then there is also the Holy Ghost; given the job of offering spiritual guidance to us on Earth. These three beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost constitute the Godhead; NOT God.

To say that there is only one God yet there are three personages who are God is very confusing.

L.H.

[prisonchaplain]

:)

Ray...I am confused.

This sounds like the trinity.

Be careful, Ray--you know how Bro. Dorsey gets when people confuse Dez!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist! )

[Ray]

To say that there is only one God yet there are three personages who are God is very confusing.

Really??? Why is that???

Why is that confusing?

Didn't I say what you just said in my other posts???

:nods head:

Yes, I'm pretty sure that I did.

So who can clear up her confusion???

Or how will she know what is true???

Should she rely on me or my words???

Should she rely on you and your words???

Is that what you're suggesting she do???

Why not just ask God to share what is true?

You know He knows all truth, don't you???

There is no need for anyone to be confused about anything.

You know that is true, don't you???

<div class='quotemain'>

:)

Ray...I am confused.

This sounds like the trinity.

Be careful, Ray--you know how Bro. Dorsey gets when people confuse Dez!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist! )

pffft.

I'm trying to "remind" Desire' that she can learn from God.

Who cares what others think about anything???

[Princess3dward]

Ray, why don't you say it like this: In the heavens, there are Gods many; but there is only one God to whom we are concerned with. This God is our Father in Heaven. The Son of God, whom we know as Jesus Christ, payed for this world with His blood and earned the right to assist in overseeing it; working directly under His Father. Therefore we also refer to Him as God; as He is the mediator between us and our Father in Heaven. No one enters into Gods kingdom except through Jesus Christ. Then there is also the Holy Ghost; given the job of offering spiritual guidance to us on Earth. These three beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost constitute the Godhead; NOT God.

To say that there is only one God yet there are three personages who are God is very confusing.

L.H.

Because I already know that. lol.

He is trying to give me a deeper understanding of it.

[Ray]

I'm happy that you understand my intentions, Desire'.

I want you to learn from God.

And btw, LionHeart, what do you mean by "the Godhead"???

I don't see that word in the Bible, and it's not in our (LDS) canon of scriptures either.

psst... and yes, I'm asking as if I don't know. I'd just like to see what you'll say.

[prisonchaplain]

Who cares what others think about anything???

I do. It's my calling. God wants me to care...to be a light...to be a sign post...to get people thinking the thoughts that God has for them.

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Who cares what others think about anything???

I do. It's my calling. God wants me to care...to be a light...to be a sign post...to get people thinking the thoughts that God has for them.

Heh, what an interesting answer, Tommy.

I agree that all Christians should be lights, and sign posts, that point ourselves and others toward God, but I don't think my job is to get others to thinking that God has my thoughts to give them.

I share what I know and I know what is true when God helps me to know what is true, but are you saying that I should get others to think that what I think is what they should think???... or that what I think is what God would teach them if they simply asked God what God thinks???

Heh, I hope not. Look at all of the problems that causes.

Some saying, Lo here! and others, Lo here! and all thinking their thinking is God's, when we can know what God thinks by getting our thinking from God and those who we know God inspired.

And regardless of others, whatever they think, we simply keep learning from God.

Do you know a better way to be learning from God than to simply ask God what God thinks???

Heh, nah. I didn't think so. :)

p.s. Lest you get confused about what I mean, AGAIN, I'll give you an example, AGAIN.

I know that the Book of Mormon was truly inspired by God, and I know that because God told me it's true. I didn't just believe Joseph Smith, or anyone who was/is a member of the Church (other than God), or anyone in the Book who said that what they wrote was what God inspired them to write.

And you can know too. Ask God. :)

[Guest Yediyd]

My name is Brett, I am a student taking a class on Faith and Doctrine. In preparation for an assignment, as well as my own personal edification and pursuit of understanding, I'd like to ask a few questions regarding your faith. Please know that I'm approaching this task with the deepest respect, and am in no way intending to verbally spar with anyone gracious enough to respond. My hope is that your responses would be reflective of your own personal convictions and not posed as "textbook" answers.

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts on this! I'm truly appreciative for your help in giving me an unscripted look at the foundation in which you rest your faith!

Blessings, Brett

[a-train]

Yediyd

Ya did?

Are you re-posting the OG questions? This is an old thread. Are you wanting new posts for those questions?

-a-train

[Guest Yediyd]

My name is Brett, I am a student taking a class on Faith and Doctrine. In preparation for an assignment, as well as my own personal edification and pursuit of understanding, I'd like to ask a few questions regarding your faith. Please know that I'm approaching this task with the deepest respect, and am in no way intending to verbally spar with anyone gracious enough to respond. My hope is that your responses would be reflective of your own personal convictions and not posed as "textbook" answers.

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts on this! I'm truly appreciative for your help in giving me an unscripted look at the foundation in which you rest your faith!

Blessings, Brett

Question#1)

Wow, there is so much there to respond to! I think I will respond first with an invitation for you to check out my blog entry..."My Testimony...The Mortal Test..." Skip the poem...just read the testimony, that will answer your first question.

Question#2)

My bigest attraction to this faith is the belief that we ALL kept our first estate...All we on this planet were rightious sons and daughters of a loving God, and because we chose the right plan...were given a body and a place on this Earth. Now, it doesn't matter who I run into on the street...bum or congressmen, prostitute or nun...we are all going to inherit some degree of glory as a reward for choosing the right plan. True, some will inherit more then others...but even the lowest degree of Heaven is still Heaven. That's a God I can believe in, a God of Love. A God who won't send a baby to Hell just because it wasn't baptised or an abborigiony to hell because he hasn't heard of Jesus.God will judge mankind not by the standerds of the LDS church...but by his own heart and degree of knowledge and what he/she DID with that knowledge here on this Earth.

Question#3)

I was raised by an evangelical preacher. TURN OR BURN. Except Christ or go to Hell. That's not a God of love, not a God I want to know.

Question#4)

The bigest diference for me was the inablity for evangelicals to except that God still talks to man, That prophets still exist. God is the same today as he was in the Old Testiment and in the New Testiment. God won't be boxed in. He can't be contained just within the boundaries of the Holy Bible. We believe That God continues to talk to man.

Question#5)

I'm afriad this question is two loaded...It would take me all night to answer the meny aspecks of it, but I welcome you to e-mail me for a more in-depth answer if you so choose. ([email protected])

Question#6)

No.

Question#7)

100% With ALL my heart!!!!!

.