Who Is It That Really Converts Out Of A Religion?

[Princess3dward]

I just see no particular value in religion or religious beliefs for me. That and I just don't believe in god. But if your religion works for you, and doesn't affect me in any adverse way, then I would actually recommend you keep it.

My uncle is the same, but he recommends I drop it as fast as I can. lol.

My mother is anti-mormon, and disowned me forever ago, but that is okay.

I am sure she is happy with whatever she is doing, and I am very happy where I have been the past year or so. And thank you. In my opinion, I had a not so good confrontation with you earlier, and it was nice to be able to talk to you this way, and not feel threatened.

It took FOREVER for me to find this site actually, and I found it in hopes that everyone would be members, but non members add a nice spirit to all of this too!

[sgallan]

My mother is anti-mormon, and disowned me forever ago, but that is okay.

My ex-wife abandoned me, and my little one, when she was nine. I do not understand mothers that can do that to their babies. I don't think I ever will.

In my opinion, I had a not so good confrontation with you earlier, and it was nice to be able to talk to you this way, and not feel threatened.

Discussion boards are like that. You sort of did that teenage thing of judging those not like you in a harsh way. We all do this to one extent or another but that thing came under the category of don't judge a book by it's cover. For example, I may not believe in god, but I spend most of my personal and professional life, educating, coaching, and helping others, and have given up a considerable amount of money to do so.

It took FOREVER for me to find this site actually, and I found it in hopes that everyone would be members, but non members add a nice spirit to all of this too!

Here is a site that is strictly an active members only site.....

http://www.nauvoo.com/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

[Princess3dward]

Sorry if you felt judged.. I admit I judged you after, and you misunderstood me before... so it was lose-lose for anything I could have possibly said after... hard to explain, and I stink with words.

Something you said in your post made me think of this comment. "Girls are soo judgmental".

Harder than you think not to judge, huh?

[Princess3dward]

About the site.. I have a strong impression it is for people who live there..."We citizens of Nauvoo freely agree to these principles"

[miztrniceguy]

I would only move to the USA for Utah, but I like being canadian, so Alberta is the next best choice... but I will go to the USA to get married!

I am so getting married in the salt late temple!!!

my wife and i married in Nauvoo temple...would have been San Diego, but all her family is here in MO

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would only move to the USA for Utah, but I like being canadian, so Alberta is the next best choice... but I will go to the USA to get married!

I am so getting married in the salt late temple!!!

my wife and i married in Nauvoo temple...would have been San Diego, but all her family is here in MO

Seems like I'm the only Canadian here..... EH?

[sgallan]

About the site.. I have a strong impression it is for people who live there..."We citizens of Nauvoo freely agree to these principles"

Lurk for awhile. It is a disucssion board, started off of a site, started by Orson Scott Card.... LDS author of note. They are very strict about their rules and you basically agree you are a true believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints otherwise you are not allowed to be there. And you won't be for long if you are not what you say you are. I suspect the majority of participants of that board live in Utah. I have never posted there, nor do I lurk anymore. I know about it from members who are among my on-line friends, and have lurked occasionally in the past.

Desire'...... I word of advice.... don't be so quick to judge. You will miss out on an awful lot if you don't learn to check things out without pre-judging first. I just linked you to a site that is exactly what you suggested you wanted. A site where I guarantee you I disagree with the majority of participants on almost everything philosophically and politically. Just because I am a godless heathen doesn't mean I am out to corrupt you in anyway.

[Princess3dward]

First paragraph: I might lurk there.. but I was at a simular site where it was all youth, and I had a hard time meeting anyone.. mostly because of some conflict they had with one member or something... iunno...

Second Paragraph: I only like God judging me, and technically, I can say the very same to you....

I already pray about that anyhow.

I never thought you were a heathen...

[sgallan]

Desire'

Nauvoo is a discussion board for the LDS. It is busy and LDS only. The vast majority being adults and most of them very very smart. I don't know of a busy LDS only teen site. I am way past being a teenager so I have never checked into it.

The heathen thing is a joke. You would be amazed at how many people think this sort of thing about those who do not believe in god. After awhile I just decided to call myself that as a bit of a joke. :)

[Princess3dward]

I believe you about the site. I might check it out later..

ps. thanx for not spelling my name with two e's..

[sgallan]

My kids name is Reni. People usually spell it Renee. Rene. Our last name is Gallan. People often spell it Gallon and more often Gallen. Even people who have known us for years. I am familiar with the misspelling of names. :)

ps - My kid is a bit of a prodigy. Google Reni Gallan and she pops up in several places. She almost has her dad beat.

[Princess3dward]

wrestling??

Man.. I can't do anything to do with sports.

I am all about music and instruments.

I used to be okay in track, but I am lazy.

Hope she doesn't get lazy!!!!!!!!!!

I also hope she goes far with whatever she wants to do in life!

I am going to read my scriptures and tackle sleep.

Chances are, I will be back at some crazy hour..

I hope you have a very good night, and nice to meet you.

[sgallan]

Reni is a drummer. She has her own set, and plays advanced band for the local middle school band. The band teacher lets in the home schoolers. She can play a basic beat on her set, and knows a few songs she can play too as well. She hasn't gotten skilled/creative enough to make up any riffs yet. Who knows if she will..... musicians usually have a natural artistic gift and Reni is more of a technician. She gets the technical percussion abilities, and the ability to keep a good beat, from band. But learning music is important to a rounded education in my opinion.

Take care, you seem like a kid with a good head on your shoulders. :)

[Maureen]

Seems like I'm the only Canadian here..... EH?

No you're not!

M.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

Seems like I'm the only Canadian here..... EH?

No you're not!

M.

You live in Alberta?

MAN! Can we trade?

What do you think of Ontario??

[Maureen]

My uncle is the same, but he recommends I drop it as fast as I can. lol.

My mother is anti-mormon, and disowned me forever ago, but that is okay.

Desire, I have some questions for you. Are you the only LDS member of your family? And if so, if your parents are not members and anti-Mormon at that; and you are only 16, how did you get parental/guardian permission to be baptized (you mentioned sister missionaries earlier). I'm just curious. :)

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Seems like I'm the only Canadian here..... EH?

No you're not!

M.

You live in Alberta?

MAN! Can we trade?

What do you think of Ontario??

I've only been to the Toronto Airport, decades ago, so I don't know if that counts, but other than that I've never been to Ontario. Have some family (niece and nephew on husband's side) in Trenton. I hear the humidity, when it's blistering hot in Toronto, is horrible. Let's just say I'm glad I'm a western Canadian. :)

M.

[Princess3dward]

I hear the humidity, when it's blistering hot in Toronto, is horrible. Let's just say I'm glad I'm a western Canadian. :)

But.... I don't live in Toronto! Can we still trade?

[Maureen]

<div class='quotemain'>

I hear the humidity, when it's blistering hot in Toronto, is horrible. Let's just say I'm glad I'm a western Canadian. :)

But.... I don't live in Toronto! Can we still trade?

No thanks! By the way, you missed my questions:

Desire, I have some questions for you. Are you the only LDS member of your family? And if so, if your parents are not members and anti-Mormon at that; and you are only 16, how did you get parental/guardian permission to be baptized (you mentioned sister missionaries earlier). I'm just curious. :)

M.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I hear the humidity, when it's blistering hot in Toronto, is horrible. Let's just say I'm glad I'm a western Canadian. :)

But.... I don't live in Toronto! Can we still trade?

No thanks! By the way, you missed my questions:

Desire, I have some questions for you. Are you the only LDS member of your family? And if so, if your parents are not members and anti-Mormon at that; and you are only 16, how did you get parental/guardian permission to be baptized (you mentioned sister missionaries earlier). I'm just curious. :)

M.

My mom kicked me out a little over a year ago, and my dad is mormon.

Alot of his family is anti-mormon, or anti-religion all together aswell.

So, I guess that anwsers your question.

If I was mormon and both my parents were anti, I wouldn't be living with either of them.

[Dr T]

I've heard it said, "Music is a higher revelation than philosophy."

Dr. T

[Maureen]

My mom kicked me out a little over a year ago, and my dad is mormon.

Alot of his family is anti-mormon, or anti-religion all together aswell.

So, I guess that anwsers your question.

If I was mormon and both my parents were anti, I wouldn't be living with either of them.

Thanks Desire!

M.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

My mom kicked me out a little over a year ago, and my dad is mormon.

Alot of his family is anti-mormon, or anti-religion all together aswell.

So, I guess that anwsers your question.

If I was mormon and both my parents were anti, I wouldn't be living with either of them.

Thanks Desire!

M.

Anytime.

[Ray]

Quick note: Ray, you said,

It's not your Dad's church (even if he's a saint) because it belongs to our Lord and ALL His saints...

Look at what you are saying, "It's not your dad's church" you then said "Even if he's a saint" and then contradicted yourself by saying that it belongs to the Lord "AND ALL HIS SAINTS." You say it belongs to saints and her father (even if being a saint) it isn't his church (point #1 of below). You are talking out of both sides of your mouth sir. (point #2 below) I like you Ray. I'm trying to nod and smile. Sometimes I have a hard time though. - points #1 and #2 to be added by Ray

Point #1: No, I said it (with it referring to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is the church of Jesus Christ and ALL of His saints... which is not the same as saying it is the church of Desire's dad, even if he's a member of this church.

For an analogy, try thinking of this:

America isn't yours even if you're American... the people and the country aren't yours. All the people aren't yours, all the land isn't yours, and neither are all the real assets. And while you might now have a part of America, if it was given by the authorities of this land, the authorities of this land could take it all back, and the authority over all of it is God.

Point #2. Sometimes it only seems that way to you and others when you really don't know what I mean, and sometimes when you know what I mean and disagree I still know what I'm saying is true.

And you now have the right to think I'm wrong and disagree because that right was given by God. Not America all alone, not one of us is all alone, because God was over all, and always will be.

[Dr T]

OK. Thank you, Ray. :)

[Ray]

I have a question for Ray.

Okay. I will try to be of service.

Why does it matter what you're wearing when you go to church?

It matters to me because I think I should look good when I go to worship my God.

And since authorities of this church have established some standards, as a member, I follow those standards. And since, as a leader, I'm responsible for other members, I teach those standards to other members.

And from there, as far as I'm concerned, personally, they are free to govern themselves.

The person sitting in church who smells like cigarette smoke and looks like he just got off of a 3 day bender is still there searching for the truth.

Wow. Really? I think that is totally awesome. If I met him I'd tell him that truth comes from God, and I'm trying to learn all about Him, and that I've found more truth since I joined this true church than all I'd ever learned before I joined it.

And it's much harder for that person to be there.

Hard? To be where? What's hard about being in a church to learn from God?

The thing I'm finding in the LDS church nowadays is that they're focusing on stuff like modesty and tattoos and earings so much that they are forgetting so many important things.

Yes, the church does focus on teaching stuff like modesty and how important it is to look good for God, but I don't think we're forgetting some other important things. We focus on EVERYTHING about God.

By constantly putting all that stuff down as "bad" you are pushing away people who are seeking truth but who wont find it because you're not focusing on God and Jesus, what the church should be based on.

FYI, the church IS based on God, and Jesus Christ... and ALL that they want us to learn.

Maybe you should focus on learning just a few things from God before you go ahead and try to condemn us for everything.

I admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo?

No, of course not. And most members of His church would also not dislike a man if he chose to wear some clothes like that to worship, but most members of His church would try to teach that man some things to help him learn HOW and WHO and WHY and WHEN and WHERE to wear his best clothes.

If you came in practically naked, do you think I really wouldn't and I shouldn't really care???

Don't judge people so harshly.

Good advice, and I don't. Do you think that somehow I do?

Who are you to now judge me for what I do? Who are you to say that I should agree with you?

The church says they are trying to look less earthly by not doing all that stuff but the way they judge the people that do that stuff, they are contradicting themselves.

Says who? You? And who are you, again? Are you thinking that I should care what you think?

Why should I believe what you say about anything?

Me thinks you're too great in your own eyes.

God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments.

Really? Really truly? Are you really telling me God doesn't care?

If I try to dress up nice by putting on my best clothes, are you telling me God really doesn't care?

Who are you to speak for God?

How do you know He doesn't care?

Why should I believe what you say about God?

And btw, you don't really need to answer those questions. I know how to know what God expects from me.

And if you think I need you to know what God thinks, I know better than to believe what you think.

Right now I am questioning my faith, deciding if the LDS church is for me and it's comments like the ones you made earlier that started my whole quest and make me think more and more that it isn't for me.

Heh, are you saying you can decide if the "LDS church" is for you by knowing what I think about the church?

Really?!?

Really truly?!?

Like, you wouldn't even ask God or the other 13+ million members of the church?

All you really need to know is what I think???

Wow. That's interesting. I didn't know I had that much influence.

Forget the other writings, and forget the other talks.

Forget God and what He says though ALL of His prophets.

Live, from SW Washington, it's Me, it's RAY!!!

And if you act NOW, I'll include a nifty item. Send your money in a self addressed envelope to...

Oh, why bother, I'm sure all the postal workers know me and how to get to me.

After all, I'm ME!!! I'M RAY!!!